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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    Blizzard ackknowledged themselves that Shadow needed love. First it was BfA alpha, then beta, then wait for 8.1, 8.2, etc. You cannot blame those people for being frustrated at their spec being fundamentally flawed for an expansion & a half.

    FWIW, that wasn't a DPS issue as much it was a gameplay issue. Shadow pumped on some bosses.
    Brother, my main's been a SPriest since Cata. I'm more than intimately familiar with the "struggle" of being an underperforming DPS. It sucks. But clearly the system we have where it takes four expansions before the class begins to see progress towards being fun again is... not ideal. I'm simply suggesting something that would keep the game fresh and interesting (imo). Obviously it's not the perfect solution but neither is anything else Blizzard has tried.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Brother, my main's been a SPriest since Cata. I'm more than intimately familiar with the "struggle" of being an underperforming DPS. It sucks. But clearly the system we have where it takes four expansions before the class begins to see progress towards being fun again is... not ideal. I'm simply suggesting something that would keep the game fresh and interesting (imo). Obviously it's not the perfect solution but neither is anything else Blizzard has tried.
    That's because Blizzard are infatuated with systems instead of trying their best to balance the fundamentals & make them fun in the process. I'd rather them step backwards & take a look at that approach than for them to say "screw it, lets just turn knobs to random extremes" & see what the end result is.

    That all said, Shadowlands is looking a hell of a lot better for core spec design than BfA. Again I'm not on about balance as much as I am core gameplay here as a reasonable level of balance is looking impossible to achieve with all these daft systems ontop of each other.

    High five for being Zandalari Troll, though

  3. #103
    Please dont bait Blizzard into believing the community will be happy if they try to balance things.

    Its a no-win situation. Spend time on other things Blizzard.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by irollyo View Post
    Sure others have brought this up before but after constantly reading the patch notes each week hoping for change and seeing little to nothing for so many classes just felt the need to vent. I feel as though blizzard is really dropping the ball with classes this expac focusing only on a set few classes which constantly seem to be getting a notable amount of changes and buffs each week while a majority might get one small change which has little to no impact.

    Personally i main a mw monk (took a break a few months ago) but have been eagerly following class changes and patch notes to see how the class has changed and what cool new things i can look forward too. But week after week all i have seen are constant small changes to the same things which include just resting or deleting what they did just the previous week and trying to pass it off like they are actually trying to balance the spec. i know wind walkers and im sure many other classes may feel the same.

    From watching videos ( as i don't have beta) i have also got the general impression that blizzard has largely dropped the ball for covenants and legendaries for a number of specs as well.

    Tldr- blizzard are shit at balancing have made good changes to a few specs busy patting them self on the back while ignoring a number of others.


    Chase M, here, from Baytown Texas, let me tell you something, according to EVERY SINGLE WEBSITE, this is the closest all the classes will have been on a launch..... EVER.... so grow up and be happy for once.

  5. #105
    Its more important that they actually fix Covenant abilities and tuning them than classes atm. Class Changes won't happen much from now on. And tuning classes is way easier by just tuning numbers up and down while Covenant abilities is something they still try to fix, and even change like they did today. Making them more interesting and balancing them somewhat seems to be the prority now and thats a good thing imo.

    Since Class reworks and thus class changes is kinda too late to do now(even if I would see some changes) reworking or changing a Covenant ability is a much easier task at this time. And since the Covenant is such an integrated part of the expansion and players having to choose one at the time its dire that those abilitites actually works and can give players something engaging to play with.
    - Enough prattling. Let them come. We shall grind their bones to dust.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Soluna View Post
    A bold assumption for you to make. I've personally done many 99 logs on my warlock since Antorus and 3 rank ones, and I think that I can play my class optimally on mythic for it to actually matter. If you cannot perform your basic rotation perfectly with some mythic mechanics thrown at you (aside from exceptionally rare mechanic combos that you are not used to it due to too little experience on a specific boss), then you are either not a good player on many levels.

    There are other variables of course depending on the class, but I've played at a good level and this matters enough for me where even 3-4% difference is important. I don't expect balance or class design to be top notch, but I also don't want it to be as shitty as it is at the moment. Not sure why you used a capital later to say 'balance', but I am not talking about the moonkin spec, if that's what you refer to.

    As for your rio thing, props to you for admitting you are not perfect, and I don't think I am either, but I am far above your lower than average 1.6k score m+ player (Imo at least everything on +15 is borderline average at this point in the patch), and I play at a level high enough for this to matter.

    Aside from all this, a person who performs bad, will still perform better with the right spec/covenant/conduits than the person who is just as bad performance wise, but is playing the wrong spec/covenant/conduits. It's literally like you are trying to say that 1+1 does not equal 2.

    You might think that I am an elitist, or the mean '1%', but you made it all about this by trying to say that I am bad enough for tuning not to matter.
    I don't think you're mean, because I don't really give a shit what you think. I also still don't think you're good enough for a few percent to matter. I also know that you aren't aware how averages work, which is why you think the average WoW player has an io over 1600.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Anchorite View Post
    I don't think you're mean, because I don't really give a shit what you think. I also still don't think you're good enough for a few percent to matter. I also know that you aren't aware how averages work, which is why you think the average WoW player has an io over 1600.
    I know how averages work. I don't take the average of the entire population for m+. I take the average of the people who play m+and literally everyone who even remotely cares for m+ has completed all of them on 15 this patch, to get the mount, and because they like m+, not to mention that a +15 offers very little challenge.

    Completing all runs on +15 gives you an average of 1.9-2.1k score if I remember correctly, depending on how fast you timed them. If you don't give a shit about what I think, then how about you don't reply to me in the first place? If you didn't care, you might as well not have started this stupid conversation. Good for you that you don't think that I am good enough, I don't seek validation by your random average joe who is not aware even remotely of the balancing issues at the moment.

    Next expansion, don't sign up for beta, leave it to someone who will test things and actually cares for the game. Sounds like you signed up for beta just to have an early look at the new content.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by irollyo View Post
    Sure others have brought this up before but after constantly reading the patch notes each week hoping for change and seeing little to nothing for so many classes just felt the need to vent. I feel as though blizzard is really dropping the ball with classes this expac focusing only on a set few classes which constantly seem to be getting a notable amount of changes and buffs each week while a majority might get one small change which has little to no impact.
    Because they're testing the rotation flow. Only dumb dumbs would be testing the damage output.

    They can take the current projected worst (SV hunter) and give +50% damage and make them the best. Damage numbers are utterly meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soluna View Post
    I know how averages work. I don't take the average of the entire population for m+. I take the average of the people who play m+and literally everyone who even remotely cares for m+ has completed all of them on 15 this patch, to get the mount, and because they like m+, not to mention that a +15 offers very little challenge.

    Completing all runs on +15 gives you an average of 1.9-2.1k score if I remember correctly, depending on how fast you timed them. If you don't give a shit about what I think, then how about you don't reply to me in the first place? If you didn't care, you might as well not have started this stupid conversation. Good for you that you don't think that I am good enough, I don't seek validation by your random average joe who is not aware even remotely of the balancing issues at the moment.

    Next expansion, don't sign up for beta, leave it to someone who will test things and actually cares for the game. Sounds like you signed up for beta just to have an early look at the new content.
    If less than 5% of the playerbase cares about M+, perhaps they should remove it and spend dev time on more popular areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Brother, my main's been a SPriest since Cata. I'm more than intimately familiar with the "struggle" of being an underperforming DPS. It sucks. But clearly the system we have where it takes four expansions before the class begins to see progress towards being fun again is... not ideal. I'm simply suggesting something that would keep the game fresh and interesting (imo). Obviously it's not the perfect solution but neither is anything else Blizzard has tried.
    SPriest was a top 3 or top 5 dps spec in nearly every tier of BFA. If you failed to top the damage meters in your groups, it is just that you're bad at WoW.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    What? Blizzard has barely started doing any kind of tuning/balancing on the beta yet.
    They've been doing nothing else for a month or so...

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    but instead will likely just fill the forums with "i told you so" and continue playing.
    People do this because they're lying when they say they don't like design decision X. It is basically the gaming version of virtue signaling. They feel like part of playing games is complaining about games.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    They've been doing nothing else for a month or so...
    False. They've been updating the process flow / rotation for various specs. Sometimes that means buffing or nerfing damage numbers to force testers to pick talent A over talent B, but "damage balancing" has not hit beta yet.

    That being said, some specs like Feral and SV have barely been tested, and they should be buffing the damage of those specs to get people to test them.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    SPriest was a top 3 or top 5 dps spec in nearly every tier of BFA. If you failed to top the damage meters in your groups, it is just that you're bad at WoW.
    1.) I haven't raided seriously since Nighthold, your assertations about my skill level are completely fucking meaningless.
    2.) In the expansions that I did raid seriously (MoP/WoD) I ended up main swapping to another toon because Shadow was simply in a dogshit state.
    3.) Even if the spec has performed better in recent expansions, it still kind of plays like shit which is a common complaint about the spec since its redesign in Legion.
    4.) I was responding to somebody who made a remark about Shadow Priests specifically which is the only reason I even mentioned playing a fucking Shadow Priest.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post

    - - - Updated - - -



    If less than 5% of the playerbase cares about M+, perhaps they should remove it and spend dev time on more popular areas.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Where did you pull that 5% out from? You really think 5% of the current, tiny population in every region plays m+? When you can get 30+ groups for it every hour, all day, every day, even super late in the expansion? What does the other 95% do in the game? Stuck at leveling or?

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    People do this because they're lying when they say they don't like design decision X. It is basically the gaming version of virtue signaling. They feel like part of playing games is complaining about games.

    - - - Updated - - -



    False. They've been updating the process flow / rotation for various specs. Sometimes that means buffing or nerfing damage numbers to force testers to pick talent A over talent B, but "damage balancing" has not hit beta yet.

    That being said, some specs like Feral and SV have barely been tested, and they should be buffing the damage of those specs to get people to test them.
    Yeah, thats balancing.
    I'm not saying they are doing a good job at it and with the soulbinds and such they'll never get it well balanced anyway. It's litteraly not something Blizzard is able to do.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Destiny Man View Post
    Technically there are numbers on class vs class performance (in particular the infamous Wowmeta site), but at this stage they're utterly worthless.

    Good quality feedback right now is addressing what don't you like about your own spec and what changes you feel would make it better to play? Feedback in the form of "my class is doing less DPS than his class, REEEEEE" is just whining pointlessly.
    Game never was and never wll be balanced class vs class. RPG specialy mmos are balanced around group conflict not around 1v1. Becouse in 1v1 scenario isnt possbile to have identitiy and unique classes. People what expect Blizzard balanced around priest vs mage vs rogue vs shaman are completly clueless and shouldnt be giving any sort of feedback on this matter.

  15. #115
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    What? Blizzard has barely started doing any kind of tuning/balancing on the beta yet.
    Lol the pre patch is next week. I really hope they get started on it now. My poor paladin looks like shit in shadowlands even compared to the shit BFA version.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Lol the pre patch is next week.
    Do you have a verifiable source of this?

  17. #117
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    Do you have a verifiable source of this?
    Well with shadowlands launching on October 27 pre patch should be hitting 1 month before.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    Do you have a verifiable source of this?
    PTR patch was markerd as release candidate so yeah.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    What? Blizzard has barely started doing any kind of tuning/balancing on the beta yet.
    "-Dont worry guys, its just alpha Im sure they'll fix it!"
    "-Dont worry guys, its beta, they will fix it!"
    "-Dont worry guys, its just X.0 they will patch it!"
    "-Dont worry guys, they'll probably fix it in X.3!"
    "-Dont worry guys, it will get fixed next expansion!"

  20. #120
    Wait I thought that it was the covenant abilities that was gonna make or break a class. You're saying that they're not exact carbon copies of each other even before covenants!?

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