Page 10 of 17 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
12
... LastLast
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopsnacker View Post
    So, it's now on the Beta Servers. It is so easy to return to covenants.

    At first: You lose no progress when you leave the covenants. If you return you are at the same spot as before and are fast as fuck with the heavy catchup mechanic for them.

    If you want to return to a covenant you have to do the following stuff:

    Clear Two Dungeons in the Zone of the Pact and a World Quest.
    Or you grind mobs in the Covenant Zone.
    You simply have to fill a bar, but doing two dungeons and one world quest is the fastest way.

    Then you have to wait for the next reset....and do the same quest again.

    So, Switching to a new Covenant takes 2 hours of gameplay maybe.
    And if you time it with the reset you start it on Monday/Tuesday and are in your old pact again at the next day.

    So much fucking drama over this.
    Mate, it being time locked is the exact opposite of fine, lol. In what world do you live where this is "fine"?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I mean others might have already stated this, but with this restriction rerolling is faster than switching covenants.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    In other words... damn I picked the wrong one, time to re-roll?
    Or just overpower the "choice" by maintaining an alt of your class in each covenant.

  3. #183
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    The Lookout
    Posts
    20,398
    So many People crying because of a fucking reset that they shouldn't have got in the first place but only did because they whined anyway.

    Grow up Children.

  4. #184
    Way too much drama over this indeed. But there must always be drama about something not serverd on a platter... And when it's served there will be drama about that too.

    "if you want to pvp you have to wait for next week to switch"

    Do you also cry when your class isn't great at pvp/pve and you need to level up and gear another which is better at specific content?

    I treat Covenants as "advanced" class. It's a choice, such as what you make at character creation screen, but respecable with some limitations. As long as it's a choice and not RNG crap I'm good.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    So many People crying because of a fucking reset that they shouldn't have got in the first place but only did because they whined anyway.

    Grow up Children.
    You need to calm down and gain some perspective if other peoples opinions about a video-game gets you this riled up.

  6. #186
    What I dont understand is the lack of perspective from the other side of the spectrum.
    The players that dont play mythic raids push mythic-plus or try do competitive pvp.

    They can wait 2 weeks no worries, but they just dont understand the other players.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Artale View Post
    The system is designed to not have people switch every other raid boss. I support this design.
    Sure. But personally I feel a daily reset is suffice.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    In my eyes, there are a variety of issues with this. For one, this would not have the desired outcome for the players on that side, as they wanted to see power totally decoupled from Covenants. They would still be having to contest with soulbinds being tied behind covenants (and to a degree the weekly conduit situation). If you decided to also soulbinds (and therefore conduits), then you have essentially done away with one of the major parts of Shadowlands.

    Secondly, something like your suggestion is a slap in the face to those that play those types of content and also like the system as is. Not every "top-end" player has the same opinion on this situation. It's also incredibly jarring, as you would suddenly lose access to these abilities at an arguably random point in instanced content. Had it for heroic Castle, but suddenly lose it for Mythic. Had it in your mythic 9(14), but lost it for your Mythic 10(15).

    I understand the frustration that those that would like to see the power decoupled feel. As you said, they don't want another player to be outperforming them because of a non-performance decision they made. To them, that fundamentally feels like BS. However, Blizz has presented their design philosophy here. They want your covenant to be an extension of your character that's represented in everything you do. To them, that requires power/abilities be attached to it as a representation in combat.

    Players who have been spending massive amounts of time and energy campaigning for blizz to pull the ripcord would now have their time and energy better spent fighting for reasonable balance, instead of solely complaining about something that isn't going to change (at least in the before a later content patch). So go out into the official forums, talk about the balance between classes covenant abilities/conduits. Make sure blizz is aware that Fae Transfusion feels like absolute crap compared to the Kyrian totem for shamans, or that the DK limbs feel clunky and weak compared to the super D&D (idk about this, just trying to make examples).

    - - - Updated - - -



    I would like to see the video where this evidence is shown. It's genuinely hard to believe that for a given class, one covenant choice is so bad that the abilities alone represent a 50% dps difference
    I dont know where you get the 50% number. But a soulbind alone can make up to 12-13% according to preach. Which is alot for every raider who cares atleast a little about output.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    I don't mind a small gate, but not a time gate. Grind mobs for an hour fine. Grind mobs for an hour, then wait for reset not fine.
    Really? Id rather have no one be able to change it ever in SL than having to grind 1hr for each swap.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    Blizzard is forcing us to make a singular choice that defines, story, cosmetics, utility, and power in a majorly consequential way, which is absolute bollocks. Break those up into their individual choices and I'd be on board. But otherwise this is just bad design.
    So it's just like chosing a class?

    You haven't in any way shown why this would be bad. Just that you don't want the consequences of your choice to affect you.

  10. #190
    Sounds like it's one toon per role then.

    Personally I'll choose probably being unoptimal for 3/4 of content and if I lose my raid spot over it (which seems unlikely after 10 years in the same guild, there's people who are in the raids for 95% parses, and there are people that still show up 6 months into a raid patch, and I'm the latter), then I'll stop playing. Then it's Blizzard's loss and not mine.

  11. #191
    Honestly, at this point, just scrap all of it.
    If people truly want swinging saloon doors in and out of Covenants, it defeats the entire purpose of choosing one. No allegiance, no sense of ownership or pride.

    It's just a very disappointing development of something I was really looking forward to.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Crummy View Post
    Honestly, at this point, just scrap all of it.
    If people truly want swinging saloon doors in and out of Covenants, it defeats the entire purpose of choosing one. No allegiance, no sense of ownership or pride.

    It's just a very disappointing development of something I was really looking forward to.
    What players want is to not be playing a suboptimal build.

    What blizz should do is just disconnect the player power aspects from the covenants. Then it will truly become a choice, unlike now when it s only a choice if you don't prioritize preformance.

    If covenants were purely cosmetic id love it.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Making decisions in an RPG game is a "stupid system"? Jesus, I wonder how Elder Scrolls, PoE, Diablo, Final Fantasy, Everquest, WoW Classic, Runescape, Dragon Quest, etc, ever became popular. You know, they all have a system where you choose to do something, and oftentimes you can NEVER undo that decision unless you start over. But a game that lets you keep a character forever, requires you to make a decision and it's stupid?

    None of you people visiting this forum(myself included) will EVER be in a situation where the outcome of the boss fight, the PVP fight, the BG, whatever, will matter because of your Covenant. None of you.

    Yet here all of you are, constantly fucking complaining because Blizzard is doing something you don't want them to do. Don't play the fucking game if you cry this much. If you come to these forums and call people white knights because you disagree with their opinion, which was logical, you shouldn't be playing the game.
    As I’ve pointed out in other threads, this argument of yours and others about meaningful choice in an RPG overlooks the MMO part of WoW.
    Those choices make sense in a single player game such as Everquest, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, etc, because they are refined games. Once they are out they are done. Maybe there will be a new version or some kind of update later to fix a bug, but the game is done. It’s development is finished. Due to that very nature, every single player game can be finished with any choice the player makes. Even with some “wrong choices,” such as a misplaced point when leveling, it can be done in most games. There have been some games where you make enough random choices that you thought were meaningful can actually make you have to restart the game because you are severely underpowered.
    It’s not as simple in a game like WoW when there are constant hotfixes, patches, bug fixes, buffs, nerfs, and adjustments where making a permanent choice can cause a player to hate a choice they previously enjoyed because they made a pick based on something before a change happened.
    Honestly, the meaningful choice reasoning is tired and cliche and doesn’t serve any point in an mmorpg. Blizzard tried meaningful choice before with professions. Anyone remember what happened? Some were very strong compared to others where people had to have alts so they could have the stronger ones. It got to where Blizzard took away most of the power gains and made them mostly equal.

  14. #194
    Feels out of place to be able to swap that easily but still not as bad as being able to swap instantly.

    Since there is player power at play, being able to change is needed

  15. #195
    People saying that rerolling or maintaining alts and therefore multiple equips will be easier than switching covenants just proof they are whiny idiots. Nothing else.

    If you use a minimum of logic you would know that this is such a bullshit. Ain't discussing with whiney shitmonkey MMO-CHampion heroes anymore anyway.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Making decisions in an RPG game is a "stupid system"? Jesus, I wonder how Elder Scrolls, PoE, Diablo, Final Fantasy, Everquest, WoW Classic, Runescape, Dragon Quest, etc, ever became popular. You know, they all have a system where you choose to do something, and oftentimes you can NEVER undo that decision unless you start over. But a game that lets you keep a character forever, requires you to make a decision and it's stupid?

    None of you people visiting this forum(myself included) will EVER be in a situation where the outcome of the boss fight, the PVP fight, the BG, whatever, will matter because of your Covenant. None of you.

    Yet here all of you are, constantly fucking complaining because Blizzard is doing something you don't want them to do. Don't play the fucking game if you cry this much. If you come to these forums and call people white knights because you disagree with their opinion, which was logical, you shouldn't be playing the game.
    None of thoes games are even trying to be competative or have any form of balance but also, none of them have a one week CD on respecing either so you know, poor examples.
    Covenants also do make a huge difference. I mean we're talking more (sometime a lot more) than a 10% difference in damage in some cases and having immunities against CC in PvP does not matter?

    You have litteraly have no idea what you're talking about. The current balance in Shadowlands is horrible and there is no signs that Blizzard will come even close to balance any of it. It will without a doubt impact all players and it'll be a negative impact for every one of them. That you don't care about this is another issues but the system is 100% stupid and a monkey could have designed a better one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Nerf what exactly? "Nerfing" would imply that you could change on the fly before and they removed it, alas that was never the case.
    What was not in the game before? Respecs?

  17. #197
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    7,052
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    What was not in the game before? Respecs?
    What? Are we talking about specs or talents here? Nope, so dont bring em up, we are talking about convenants. For crying out loud even the thread title is "Returning to a Covenant is EASY and FAST", so no idea why you brought up respecs. Covenants never had a state where you just could use a tome and change it, ergo it isnt "nerfing" it.
    Last edited by Nnyco; 2020-09-22 at 02:55 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    What players want is to not be playing a suboptimal build.

    What blizz should do is just disconnect the player power aspects from the covenants. Then it will truly become a choice, unlike now when it s only a choice if you don't prioritize preformance.

    If covenants were purely cosmetic id love it.
    Noe of them are sub optimal. Players just cannot handle being a little less powered for any reason ignoring the fact you will still complete the content and still get the same end result on progression.

    It is a choice. Players need to stop acting like you have to have max performance to down content.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    There is no way that is true lmao.
    If you don't realize that this is quite true already, why the fuck is your uninformed ass posting on a topic you clearly have no racing horse in or care to even remotely make sure that your info is up-to-date? Yes, with the 'ass' in there (clearly an unforgivable, infractable offense, the end of the world), don't take it too harshly.

    But that's just what it is. People keep saying "NO WAY IS IT THIS BIG LMAO; STOP WHINING ELITIST".

    Meanwhile, Mind Games for Priest = Exists. Skill-capped this thing is fucking insane in PvP. Virtually and literally useless ANYWHERE else.

    Meanwhile, Warriors exist. Two abilities have been tuned massively, one went from very good to "meh/doggo" and the other went from "I have bad performance and am virtually impossible to use in the niche I was designed for" (banner, support) to "I have some performance, but am still fucking horrible to use". All in all, the remaining two included? No big difference anywhere, really. So what's the point of having the "meaningful" choice when none of the abilities are meaningful or even remotely different flavor- or performance wise.

    This system isn't being called out as shit and being driven down the "talent treatment" row for nothing. If you care to actually dig into how useful each ability is and the massive differences in performance on classes even after some of the preliminal beta tuning so far, there's abilities that are still virtually useless, ability gaps on some classes that are wide because of utility (not just easily number-tunable) they offer, compared to how useful (aka not) each utility component on the other options is in an SL setting.

    The entire point of the system in creating "meaningful" choices is null and void and with Blizzard's trackrecord will remain so until the end of the expansion. There was nothing "RPG" about this system to begin with, so the RPG-gung-ho's with their blindfolds on screaming at the top of the lung seriously need to reconsider if they ever actually played one to begin with, before the conception of this system. They can't even and never have been able to create a balance on either the performance or utility scale to not make this system just another talent row with more hassle attached to it. Hence, it makes sense to call for them to scrap it and let future development time until the end of the xpac go into actual RPG components to the covenants, like branching story or actual, unique story paths with your soulbinds.

    Where my faith with Blizzard lacks on tuning and balance, even for the purpose of a system that seemingly tries to break free from that whole nature (and failing gloriously at it), they can make a version of that whole ordeal that at least is remotely functional and works (we're not talking god-tier RPG quality with multiple endings for obvious reasons here. But there's more 'journey' than ending usually anyways, so I want choices that affect the journey to this pre-determined end, especially if I'm lore-wise supposed to bind myself to people on a soul-to-soul basis).

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Dismayxz View Post
    If you don't realize that this is quite true already, why the fuck is your uninformed ass posting on a topic you clearly have no racing horse in or care to even remotely make sure that your info is up-to-date? Yes, with the 'ass' in there (clearly an unforgivable, infractable offense, the end of the world), don't take it too harshly.

    But that's just what it is. People keep saying "NO WAY IS IT THIS BIG LMAO; STOP WHINING ELITIST".

    Meanwhile, Mind Games for Priest = Exists. Skill-capped this thing is fucking insane in PvP. Virtually and literally useless ANYWHERE else.

    Meanwhile, Warriors exist. Two abilities have been tuned massively, one went from very good to "meh/doggo" and the other went from "I have bad performance and am virtually impossible to use in the niche I was designed for" (banner, support) to "I have some performance, but am still fucking horrible to use". All in all, the remaining two included? No big difference anywhere, really. So what's the point of having the "meaningful" choice when none of the abilities are meaningful or even remotely different flavor- or performance wise.

    This system isn't being called out as shit and being driven down the "talent treatment" row for nothing. If you care to actually dig into how useful each ability is and the massive differences in performance on classes even after some of the preliminal beta tuning so far, there's abilities that are still virtually useless, ability gaps on some classes that are wide because of utility (not just easily number-tunable) they offer, compared to how useful (aka not) each utility component on the other options is in an SL setting.

    The entire point of the system in creating "meaningful" choices is null and void and with Blizzard's trackrecord will remain so until the end of the expansion. There was nothing "RPG" about this system to begin with, so the RPG-gung-ho's with their blindfolds on screaming at the top of the lung seriously need to reconsider if they ever actually played one to begin with, before the conception of this system. They can't even and never have been able to create a balance on either the performance or utility scale to not make this system just another talent row with more hassle attached to it. Hence, it makes sense to call for them to scrap it and let future development time until the end of the xpac go into actual RPG components to the covenants, like branching story or actual, unique story paths with your soulbinds.

    Where my faith with Blizzard lacks on tuning and balance, even for the purpose of a system that seemingly tries to break free from that whole nature (and failing gloriously at it), they can make a version of that whole ordeal that at least is remotely functional and works (we're not talking god-tier RPG quality with multiple endings for obvious reasons here. But there's more 'journey' than ending usually anyways, so I want choices that affect the journey to this pre-determined end, especially if I'm lore-wise supposed to bind myself to people on a soul-to-soul basis).
    Why would Blizzard think any of these new abilities should account for more than 5% of your total damage though, that is just bad design.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - Sire Denathrius confirmed to have created the Dreadlords.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •