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  1. #41
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopsnacker View Post
    So, it's now on the Beta Servers. It is so easy to return to covenants.

    At first: You lose no progress when you leave the covenants. If you return you are at the same spot as before and are fast as fuck with the heavy catchup mechanic for them.

    If you want to return to a covenant you have to do the following stuff:

    Clear Two Dungeons in the Zone of the Pact and a World Quest.
    Or you grind mobs in the Covenant Zone.
    You simply have to fill a bar, but doing two dungeons and one world quest is the fastest way.

    Then you have to wait for the next reset....and do the same quest again.

    So, Switching to a new Covenant takes 2 hours of gameplay maybe.
    And if you time it with the reset you start it on Monday/Tuesday and are in your old pact again at the next day.

    So much fucking drama over this.
    Let me take a wild guess and guess u dont partake in high end content? Some times u want a different setup for raid vs m+, hell ud want different setup from boss to boss in mythic raiding, and maybe u pvp on the side to mess it up even more.
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  2. #42
    I don't mind a small gate, but not a time gate. Grind mobs for an hour fine. Grind mobs for an hour, then wait for reset not fine.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    In my eyes, there are a variety of issues with this. For one, this would not have the desired outcome for the players on that side, as they wanted to see power totally decoupled from Covenants. They would still be having to contest with soulbinds being tied behind covenants (and to a degree the weekly conduit situation). If you decided to also soulbinds (and therefore conduits), then you have essentially done away with one of the major parts of Shadowlands.

    Secondly, something like your suggestion is a slap in the face to those that play those types of content and also like the system as is. Not every "top-end" player has the same opinion on this situation. It's also incredibly jarring, as you would suddenly lose access to these abilities at an arguably random point in instanced content. Had it for heroic Castle, but suddenly lose it for Mythic. Had it in your mythic 9(14), but lost it for your Mythic 10(15).

    I understand the frustration that those that would like to see the power decoupled feel. As you said, they don't want another player to be outperforming them because of a non-performance decision they made. To them, that fundamentally feels like BS. However, Blizz has presented their design philosophy here. They want your covenant to be an extension of your character that's represented in everything you do. To them, that requires power/abilities be attached to it as a representation in combat.

    Players who have been spending massive amounts of time and energy campaigning for blizz to pull the ripcord would now have their time and energy better spent fighting for reasonable balance, instead of solely complaining about something that isn't going to change (at least in the before a later content patch). So go out into the official forums, talk about the balance between classes covenant abilities/conduits. Make sure blizz is aware that Fae Transfusion feels like absolute crap compared to the Kyrian totem for shamans, or that the DK limbs feel clunky and weak compared to the super D&D (idk about this, just trying to make examples).

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    I would like to see the video where this evidence is shown. It's genuinely hard to believe that for a given class, one covenant choice is so bad that the abilities alone represent a 50% dps difference
    its not just the covenants,but the soulbinds and coundit picks

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    The drama is highlighting a fundamental difference in playstyle between groups of players. One group of players want access to all options, freely swappable, so that the only discernable difference between players of the same class is that of skill. Another group wants to actually have to make a choice that has some permanence, to have some identity that differentiates them from other members of their own class, accepting the strengths and weaknesses of that choice.

    Although neither side of this discussion want to acknowledge it, the plain truth is this: Both preferred playstyles are equally valid.

    Now, clearly Blizzard has taken their side of this conversation, but they have failed utterly in the PR department. Not once has the other side (primarily performance-minded players and top-end raider) had their concerns adequately addressed. There's no perfect solution, but Blizzard could have at least tried. For example, perhaps in some top-end content (rated BGs, Mythic Raids, Mythic+ above a certain point), these systems are disabled, to allow for those players who want to focus on performance overall to do so and keep their top-end competitions 'pure', while at the same time leaving in the covenant system as-is for those outside of those high-end activities. It's too late for this change, but this is the kind of thing Blizz should have been working on in June and before.
    your missing an option: the one that we know blizz can't balance for a damn, and either will be left with a gimp choice, or it the choice will get nerfed and having to swap. After all look at the power swings from azerite/corruption choices, either blizz is incompetent or uncaring

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    Eh, I get it, but it's also not earth shattering if you have to X content with a loadout that is slightly not "the best" for that content. Obviously, there are some outliers in the system where certain abilities are downright garbage for a given spec or in a type of content, but generally speaking, most covenant choices will play out more or less fine anywhere. It's just hard, because for the longest time, players have grown accustom to always being able to choose "the best" things for every possible situation they come across. It's to the point, that for some, not being able to just choose that option so easily now is something that feels like a sucker punch.
    I disagree, it is. If you're competitive and play with other people whether in a Pug or even a guild, you're forced into the meta choice. And, if you buck the meta, you are going to have a lot of "unnecessary" difficulty getting into a PUG doing competitive content and if you're in a guild it could be the difference between being in the starting lineup and on the bench. That's WOW culture for ya. I think it sucks, but nonetheless it is a reality. Blizzard needs to consider WOW culture when they implement something really cool and exciting in a very dumb and useless way (as they often do).

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    lol what? changing a covenant takes a weekly reset and thats great? so fuck you if you want to do both pvp/pve in the same week or tank/dps? you are only allowed to choose 1 play per week. Great solution!
    It's called making a meaningful choice. According to blizzard you are changing classes every time you swap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    its aactualy over 50% damage increase based on what you pick
    Source needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    its not just the covenants,but the soulbinds and coundit picks
    Again, would like to see a video. That's a very bold claim (50% dps difference between two covenant choices) that needs the evidence to back it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    I disagree, it is. If you're competitive and play with other people whether in a Pug or even a guild, you're forced into the meta choice. And, if you buck the meta, you are going to have a lot of "unnecessary" difficulty getting into a PUG doing competitive content and if you're in a guild it could be the difference between being in the starting lineup and on the bench. That's WOW culture for ya. I think it sucks, but nonetheless it is a reality. Blizzard needs to consider WOW culture when they implement something really cool and exciting in a very dumb and useless way (as they often do).
    That's why I said what I said. Players have grown accustom to the ability to play that way. You quite literally do not need to be able to have access to everything on a whim. However, that culture you mentioned, it is born of that mentality that a sub-section of players have adopted over the years. "If you aren't doing what's determined to the be the absolute best, then you're intentionally being sub-optimal and hindering everyone else".

    I believe that one of Blizz's design goals with this is to tackle the optimization culture. It's honestly gotten to a very toxic place nowadays. It's fine if you personally like to min-max to the nth degree, heck I do it too for the most part, but we should not be projecting that so hard onto the whole game that it reaches the point you get ridiculed and shunned if you aren't doing what [Inset Build Guide] tells you to do, before you are even given the chance to show up. As a raid leader, I've personally seen players who are toxic optimizers be outperformed by someone who is, by their standards, sub-optimal, for a variety of reasons. You just need to give people a chance to show their personal skills.

  8. #48
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    lol what? changing a covenant takes a weekly reset and thats great? so fuck you if you want to do both pvp/pve in the same week or tank/dps? you are only allowed to choose 1 play per week. Great solution!
    But that's assuming your covenant ability will make that much of an impact, which I doubt it will. Most people are pushing world first mythic raiding or R1 gladiator. Outside of those two fields, it won't matter what covenant you pick because most people don't parse higher than 80%.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    Let me take a wild guess and guess u dont partake in high end content? Some times u want a different setup for raid vs m+, hell ud want different setup from boss to boss in mythic raiding, and maybe u pvp on the side to mess it up even more.
    I am both high M+ player and also Mythic Raider in a 12/12 guild even though top world.

    I see like no problem for every non world first guild that progresses somewhat slower. You pick your covenant that is best for the next boss you progress on.
    In M+ it might change for every dungeon, that's absolutely true. But it's like the 'meta' that is played and the so called bad specs. They are also able to clear damn high dungeons. I bet the "worst" abilities gon be able to play through it easily, too.

    I am glad that this system at least gives you choices. It won't simply give you some straight abilites and you are doomed if they are not meta enough.

  10. #50
    Just keep the quest completed in your log to switch and turn in the quest when you need to switch. Thanks for the meaningful choice, i feel it.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopsnacker View Post
    So, it's now on the Beta Servers. It is so easy to return to covenants.

    At first: You lose no progress when you leave the covenants. If you return you are at the same spot as before and are fast as fuck with the heavy catchup mechanic for them.

    If you want to return to a covenant you have to do the following stuff:

    Clear Two Dungeons in the Zone of the Pact and a World Quest.
    Or you grind mobs in the Covenant Zone.
    You simply have to fill a bar, but doing two dungeons and one world quest is the fastest way.

    Then you have to wait for the next reset....and do the same quest again.

    So, Switching to a new Covenant takes 2 hours of gameplay maybe.
    And if you time it with the reset you start it on Monday/Tuesday and are in your old pact again at the next day.

    So much fucking drama over this.
    This is actually why it’s so stupid to even have these requirements. Why even have this? It’s just time gating and it holds no value. Either make it an actual meaningful choice and make covenants 100% permanent or remove the restrictions. This half arsed solution where you cannot freely change but at the same time to requirements to change is almost nonexistent makes no sense. They just waste our time with this shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Just keep the quest completed in your log to switch and turn in the quest when you need to switch. Thanks for the meaningful choice, i feel it.
    Exactly. Either do it or don’t Blizzard. Stop making these weird “in between solutions”.

  12. #52
    I think it's actually kind of funny. Switching to your old covenant takes like 1 day and just requires the weekly reset to pass by.

    And that's the shit people have been campaining for months about. A literal couple hours of work tops for something most players will actually never do and only matters to competitive players.

    I almost feel stupid for getting dragged into this whole covenant war, but then again, I never felt like the world is ending because you cant just switch them on the fly, was just a bit pissed the top players want to mess up a cool system.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Artale View Post
    For those going "Omg it takes 2 weeks": no it doesn't. It takes 2 weekly quests. Like OP stated, you can do one the day before reset and do it again on reset day. Took you less than 24 hours to switch.
    Oh so it takes either 2 weeks or 2 day depending on when you want to do some other content than what you speced for? Oh thats great.
    It still doesn't change the fact that after you did your PvP you have to wait 2 weeks to switch back to the covenent you use for M+ and then another 2 weeks for raids.

    The system is complete crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    I think it's actually kind of funny. Switching to your old covenant takes like 1 day and just requires the weekly reset to pass by.

    And that's the shit people have been campaining for months about. A literal couple hours of work tops for something most players will actually never do and only matters to competitive players.

    I almost feel stupid for getting dragged into this whole covenant war, but then again, I never felt like the world is ending because you cant just switch them on the fly, was just a bit pissed the top players want to mess up a cool system.
    No, you need 2 resets. Thats 2 weeks when you want to switch back again.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    2 weeks is not fast.
    If I want to PvP I don't want to wait 2 bloody weeks.

    What are you on about? It's a stupid system however you "white-knight" it.
    It's 1 week or less.

    If you change after reset you have to wait for 7 days until next reset to do it.
    If you change on monday you have to wait for 2 days until next reset to do it. (assuming EU reset, 1 if US).

    Only time it takes 2 weeks is if you do it right after reset and then wait until the day before reset... that's however you not being a hurry. We can easily say that it takes 5 weeks because someone waited to do the 2nd weekly 4 weeks later.
    It takes 7days or less, ALWAYS. Then of course if you decide to take longer then it takes longer.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2020-09-18 at 08:59 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Oh so it takes either 2 weeks or 2 day depending on when you want to do some other content than what you speced for? Oh thats great.
    It still doesn't change the fact that after you did your PvP you have to wait 2 weeks to switch back to the covenent you use for M+ and then another 2 weeks for raids.

    The system is complete crap.

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    No, you need 2 resets. Thats 2 weeks when you want to switch back again.
    Can you do simple math? It may take two resets, but not the actual resetday is needed.
    It takes you literally from 2 hours to maximum 6 days, depending on when you start the switching process.

    If you change a covenant you can instantly start the process to go back to the one you have been in a minute before and just have to wait for the next reset.

    That so many people are too stupid to understand such a simple thing just shows me again: Don't discuss with people not being able to understand easy stuff, they won't learn it anyway.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopsnacker View Post
    Can you do simple math? It may take two resets, but not the actual resetday is needed.
    It takes you literally from 2 hours to maximum 6 days, depending on when you start the switching process.

    If you change a covenant you can instantly start the process to go back to the one you have been in a minute before and just have to wait for the next reset.
    Yes so I do my 10 arenas and then I want to go back so thats still a week then and whatever time it takes to do the grind.
    In any case the system is useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It's 1 week or less.

    If you change after reset you have to wait for 7 days until next reset to do it.
    If you change on monday you have to wait for 2 days until next reset to do it. (assuming EU reset, 1 if US).

    Only time it takes 2 weeks is if you do it right after reset and then wait until the day before reset... that's however you not being a hurry. We can easily say that it takes 5 weeks because someone waited to do the 2nd weekly 4 weeks later.
    It takes 7days or less, ALWAYS. Then of course if you decide to take longer then it takes longer.
    Well, thats if you can actually play all week and right after reset. One week is still way, way to long to not be able to play the game.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinte View Post
    Hot tip: you dont need any covenant ability to clear content,and soulbinds are far more powerful.

    Hot tip #2: none of you scrublords do the content at a level high enough that you have to swap covenants in order to do it.
    just because you dont need to do it, doesnt mean you dont want to do the best you can at all times. some people dont do mythic because they dont have the time. that is no excuse not to do the best you can in every other aspect of the game.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    lol what? changing a covenant takes a weekly reset and thats great? so fuck you if you want to do both pvp/pve in the same week or tank/dps? you are only allowed to choose 1 play per week. Great solution!
    That's kinda the point.

    Besides, it's still better than the $25 and $30 they charge you for race and faction change respectively.

  19. #59
    Field Marshal Artale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Oh so it takes either 2 weeks or 2 day depending on when you want to do some other content than what you speced for? Oh thats great.
    It still doesn't change the fact that after you did your PvP you have to wait 2 weeks to switch back to the covenent you use for M+ and then another 2 weeks for raids.

    The system is complete crap.

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    No, you need 2 resets. Thats 2 weeks when you want to switch back again.
    The system is designed to not have people switch every other raid boss. I support this design.

  20. #60
    So... the choice really does matter then? Certain players act as if the game is not playable without the ability to switch on the fly. Sure there are problems with the system and the solution should be something else, not time gating it...

    But on the other hand, "Choose wisely, young padawan."

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