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  1. #81
    Field Marshal Artale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    There is none that works for all 3.
    Having the ability to switch would change nothing for you. You suppot it becuase you're egotistic and it's as simple as that.
    Nowhere did I ever state the system can't be changed. I just said I think not being able to change covenant every 5 minutes is a good thing. If they decide to remove the lockout I wouldn't care less.
    You can easily do Mythic raiding and high M+ with your pvp covenant of choice. Will you perform slightly worse? Maybe. Will it make you wipe? Highly unlikely. Will you miss the M+ timer by a second? You might have bigger problems other than your covenant ability.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    They do work for all specs
    Acutally, the funny thing is that you're wrong here. Some are litteraly dead buttons.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Artale View Post
    "To not be able to play the game."

    You can play just fine. Just because you're not in the Covenant you want doesn't mean you can't play. Stop acting like the world is ending.
    I'm sorry that you feel needlessly attacked by certain players for your opinion. Its neither their, nor your fault that your favored in-game environment makes you incredulous at anything beyond it.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Okay guys boss X requires venthyr so go switch
    Okay guys boss Y requires kyrian so go switch
    Okay guys boss Z requires venthyr again so go switch
    Okay guys we're doing dungeon X, we need necrolord here go switch
    Okay guys we're doing dungeon Y now - back to venthyr
    Okay guys let's do some BGs - go switch necrolord
    Okay guys we're doing some arena, need you to go back to kyrian

    Sounds pretty fun to me
    Yeah, and that's why most people would never do it anyway beside top world guilds.
    Just like a lot of people don't care for the best right now...and hey, they are doing better than 99% complaining about that stuff.

    I see so many specs that perform way worse played in M+ and still do what they have to do, like Sub Rogue instead of Outlaw in Non-Tyrannical weeks, because whatever, even with 4-5k rio it does not matter as other stuff decides mostly how it ends.
    Or a full group of non viable M+ Specs clearing 23 intime. KEKW.

    Whiny crap community, especially here. Whatever.

    In the end those whining the most are those never changing anything.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Artale View Post
    Nowhere did I ever state the system can't be changed. I just said I think not being able to change covenant every 5 minutes is a good thing. If they decide to remove the lockout I wouldn't care less.
    You can easily do Mythic raiding and high M+ with your pvp covenant of choice. Will you perform slightly worse? Maybe. Will it make you wipe? Highly unlikely. Will you miss the M+ timer by a second? You might have bigger problems other than your covenant ability.
    If you don't care why are you defending it when it litteraly ruins the experience for others?
    That is just you being egotistic. You pick a "side" and you stick with it to piss people off.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Artale View Post

    Where are the abilities most important? PvP most likely. If you only pvp, it's an easy choice. If you only M+ same. Same if you only raid. You do all 3? Make a choice that works for all 3.
    Its not. 100% not. Can explain if you care. But since you already mentioned your crippling bias, I don't think you'd want to listen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RareBeast View Post
    The people that min/max their characters to squeeze out that extra 0.5% damage then put in a 60-70% parse.......Honestly unless you are in the top 100 in the world there are far more important things to work on to improve your performance than a slight increase from a covenant.
    I'd be fine with 0.5% difference. Im not, however, fine with people making up random numbers just to have somewhat of an argument.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    People want it to be as swappable as talents, no more no less.

    I'd prefer it to be a few days instead of one week but one week is not bad at all. No ability is going to be buffed mid-week.
    8 days minimum. It takes 2 resets.

  8. #88
    I don't think the two sides are going to reconcile here... one is a minority claiming they want unique outcomes and the ability to have "impactful" decisions. The other is the massive majority who will blindly follow whatever the higher up players do without question as they have for fifteen years now.

    At best this system will lock people into one progression path for a period of time either pve or pvp since mythic plus looks pretty dead. At worst it will create grief when random nerfs fly out and people shuffle back and forth.

  9. #89
    Field Marshal Artale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    Its not. 100% not. Can explain if you care. But since you already mentioned your crippling bias, I don't think you'd want to listen.
    The 'easy choice' statement was about if you only pvp it's an easy choice: you pick the best covenant for pvp without caring about what's best for Raids/M+.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Artale View Post
    The 'easy choice' statement was about if you only pvp it's an easy choice: you pick the best covenant for pvp without caring about what's best for Raids/M+.
    True. While maintaining a alt does appear to be easier then it was in bfa I am not really sure how well the more... progressed? ( I don't know what good players with limited time refer to themselves as since bad players grabbed up the term casual) will accept needing two toons of the same class to excel in both pve and pvp.

    It is a odd move to add such heavy restriction for a talent row. I can't see it working out well but there isn't any changing it now only addons to show who made the right choice in lfd.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Artale View Post
    "To not be able to play the game."

    You can play just fine. Just because you're not in the Covenant you want doesn't mean you can't play. Stop acting like the world is ending.
    It really depends on with whom you're playing. If you're in a guild you can chose whatever covenant you want because people from your guild will probably play with you regardless of your covenant choice.

    If you're pugging however your covenant choice is much more important and in beta you can already see people looking for specific class-spec-covenant combinations for specific dungeons. Wrong covenant, no invite and the dungeon covenant bonus is still ridiculous after the nerf. For Plaguefall dungeon you need 2 DPS with Kyrian because the damage buff from the golem is huge which allows you to kill the bosses near the golem in like 10 seconds.

    And for raids it's similar. Venthyr and Nightfae are extremely powerful in most fights because they can ignore a lot of mechanics with their blink/teleport. Have the wrong covenant and the group can't use the tactics they want which makes the fight harder, so you won't get an invite.

    For mythic+ Blizzard can still balance some dungeon bonus so it's not that important, other dungeon bonuses like the shortcut in the Ardenweald dungeon can't be nerfed and especially for mythic+ it's a timesaver that every PUG will want to have because it increases your chance of finishing the dungeon in time.

    For raids, I don't see how Blizzard can balance the utility based abilities. They either word or don't work and therefore can't be balanced.

    Don't know much about PVP so I don't know how much of an impact the covenant abilities/soulbinds/conduits have but if you're pugging PVE with whatever covenant choice you'll have a harder time to find a group for 2 dungeons and some raid bosses.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    yep soulbinds are more or less spec base and no flavor in them either. You have to basically pick your soulbind based on spec but I was talking about the covenant ability itself. the fact that you can only change with with a weekly reset means you are locked to one role per week and would be gimped in every other role.
    Youa re not gimped. You don't have to be max powerful to complete content. You wills till get it done despite not being super elite.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by faithbane View Post
    lol what? changing a covenant takes a weekly reset and thats great?
    Well it isn't great, I'd much prefer that you couldn't swap back at all ... but it is a good compromise.

    Covenants are a return to variation and difference, something long missing in WoW - I for one welcome a reduction of the boring homogenisation.

    The problem with having ANY mechanism to swap back will be that people in high end guilds will now be FORCED to do that and then whinge about the grind.

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopsnacker View Post

    So, Switching to a new Covenant takes 2 hours of gameplay maybe.
    And if you time it with the reset you start it on Monday/Tuesday and are in your old pact again at the next day.

    So much fucking drama over this.
    Okay, so this logic is so incredibly flawed I don't know where to begin. Sure if someone wants to reset their covenant on Monday Night it's all well and good but if it happens on a Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, etc it's not just "two hours and it's done" it's: Fill the bar and wait several days. Fill another bar and then you can do it. So yes, for people that have certain covenants that are drastically better for X over Y then they're basically locked into X until next reset. They can still do Y because nothing stops them but they won't be optimal and some people need/want to play the game at an optimal level in whatever it is they're doing.
    "Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it."
    Varok Saurfang

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Acutally, the funny thing is that you're wrong here. Some are litteraly dead buttons.
    That's a problem, but not one that should be fixed by "Let me change every aspect of my character whenever i want to!" (That would just invalidate the whole covenant system, making it four grindable sub-specs instead of an actual decision), it's a balance issue, one i'm not entirely sure Blizz can fix before release, but only time will tell...

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokura View Post
    8 days minimum. It takes 2 resets.
    2 days minimum.
    You start on tuesday/monday, do the first weekly, then on tuesday/wednesday after reset you do the second weekly.
    Its actually 8 days maximum. If you swap to new covenant on week 1, you can start progress to swap that week. So basically you play Venthyr on week 0 and want to swap to Kyrian for week 1. Week 1 you are Kyrian but you want to swap back to Venthyr on reset day. You can start the swap progress on week 1 even though you did on quest to swap to Kyrian already that week. And you complete the swap back to Venthyr on week 2 reset day, because you already did the first weekly on week 1.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    That's a problem, but not one that should be fixed by "Let me change every aspect of my character whenever i want to!" (That would just invalidate the whole covenant system, making it four grindable sub-specs instead of an actual decision), it's a balance issue, one i'm not entirely sure Blizz can fix before release, but only time will tell...
    I think a lot (or at least some) people's ire is rooted in a lack of confidence that blizz can balance the system. Which is fair it's pretty damn complex. They've made it especially hard on themselves by giving some specs great synergy with abilities and others just none at all (which will also likely affect scaling)

  18. #98
    High end raiders are a strange bunch, and they have more say than they should imo. They think every mechanic in the game should revolve around min/maxing. Which is very egocentric. You decided to be a mythic raider, therefore you should deal with the consequences of that choice instead of complaining every step of the way the game isn't tailor made for you. Lower your difficulty if you hate it, it's not like anyone thinks any better of you. Imo covenant swapping should be even longer and harder to achieve.

  19. #99
    If not having one covenant ability makes you completely incapable of killing someone in PvP, downing a mythic dungeon before the timer, or being able to do enough damage/healing/mitigation to kill a raid boss....

    I got bad news for you...

    The covenant ability ain't the reason.
    When in doubt, simply ask yourself: "What would Garrosh do?"

    #wwgd

  20. #100
    Field Marshal Artale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m4zz0928 View Post
    High end raiders are a strange bunch, and they have more say than they should imo. They think every mechanic in the game should revolve around min/maxing. Which is very egocentric. You decided to be a mythic raider, therefore you should deal with the consequences of that choice instead of complaining every step of the way the game isn't tailor made for you. Lower your difficulty if you hate it, it's not like anyone thinks any better of you. Imo covenant swapping should be even longer and harder to achieve.
    So like high end M+ players and PvPers?

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