Page 9 of 17 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
11
... LastLast
  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Was it really a problem when we could change talents at will even within a raid a few years ago ? Pretty sure it bothered absolutely no one.
    You seriously believe there is a thing that bothers nobody?

  2. #162
    Well that's not bad at all, thought it was gonna be 2 months of daily quests judging by the outcry. And almost nobody does raid, m+ and pvp on a level where this matters, you're such a tiny whiny minority, and pvp is a niche at best. Better to just have a second game up your sleeve for some real pvp.

    Is covenant really that messed up that you can't do mythic raid with your m+ focused covenant? Either way it's gonna be fixed in 9.1 as usual, October 27 is when the real beta begins.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Well that's not bad at all, thought it was gonna be 2 months of daily quests judging by the outcry. And almost nobody does raid, m+ and pvp on a level where this matters, you're such a tiny whiny minority, and pvp is a niche at best. Better to just have a second game up your sleeve for some real pvp.

    Is covenant really that messed up that you can't do mythic raid with your m+ focused covenant? Either way it's gonna be fixed in 9.1 as usual, October 27 is when the real beta begins.
    Based on what people claim, you can't even enter the raid without the "perfect" Covenant. Which would naturally lead to problems for the people where different Covenants are best suited for different encounters...

    Reality is, of course, that for the most part the differences are fairly minor, especially once player skill and execution enters the calculations.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by AlmightyGerkin View Post
    Not unless you decide to go from venthyr to bastion and do the requirements on saturday-monday than same thing on tuesday.
    Wow, that sure does sound fun and such a simple and usable system at that.
    It's like 3 year olds designed it.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Pohut View Post
    I am glad you compared a minor in-game inconvenience to a real life disability. It just shows how unhinged "min-maxers" like you are.
    In case you haven't noticed, they are conceptually very similar. I've used a ridiculous analogy as a comment on the nature of your statement.
    I'm also nowhere near a min-maxer. That just goes to show how far you guys go in your blind vendetta.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Based on what people claim, you can't even enter the raid without the "perfect" Covenant. Which would naturally lead to problems for the people where different Covenants are best suited for different encounters...

    Reality is, of course, that for the most part the differences are fairly minor, especially once player skill and execution enters the calculations.
    Which still does not adress the glaring issue of nerfing yourself in every content that your covenant choice is suboptimal in, which is incredibly annoying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    I've argued this with the most logical person I've ever met and basically his conclusion for being against Covenants is, "I don't think some choices should have consequences" that's basically the gist of it after getting my A-hole torn apart in argument for about an hour. I am no match for him intellectually or in debate, but the goal was probe him to see his hand.

    Basically people don't want consequences for their choices, this is what this is really all about. No amount of chest pounding will convince the people who realize this otherwise.
    Very small sample group to make such a generalized statement don't you think? Also makes it sound like choice = choice and consequence = consequence.
    Some choices should have major consequences, some should have minor ones, and some should have negligent ones. The whole rpg feel of this power-driven multiplayer game should not be tied to power, easy as that.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Wow, that sure does sound fun and such a simple and usable system at that.
    It's like 3 year olds designed it.
    That system by itself has been in wow since 2004. Not utilized imo till much later for farming raids for xmog/gear/mounts etc. All it is just a quicker way instead of waiting a week to change covenants

  7. #167
    This is so stupid.

    How is a choice meningsful if you can just switch it every other week? The point of a meaningful choice is thag you pick one and then you live with the consequences and work around the downsides.

    They should make it so that you cant switch it.. Ever!

  8. #168
    agreed, I was looking forward to bumping into players who were members of their covenants, and individuals who were representatives of the realm they've chosen to align themselves with and help.

    it was going to be cool to know there are tons of us out there with unique covenants, aesthetics, conduits, spells, abilities, ect, and that we were all carving out our own path and truly on our own journeys.

    it should be permanent or insanely difficult and challenging and time consuming to switch back.

    we're learning culture's art, it should be an obstacle to leave and come back.

    sigh

    people want everything, including the ability to have everything. they want everything so much, they even want to be able to have the thing they don't currently have nor are currently using, within a second, if they so choose. they want stuff they have and don't have and don't want anything stopping them from getting what they can have and don't have, for even a single moment. if it exists, they want it. I bet if someone took away their ability to want, they'd somehow develop concept and ability of want.
    Last edited by dunkl; 2020-09-21 at 09:24 PM.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    Which still does not adress the glaring issue of nerfing yourself in every content that your covenant choice is suboptimal in, which is incredibly annoying.
    Because there is nothing to adress in the first place. It's there by design, not by accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    Some choices should have major consequences, some should have minor ones, and some should have negligent ones. The whole rpg feel of this power-driven multiplayer game should not be tied to power, easy as that.
    So choices should not have consequences when those consequences would actually affect you? You're just proving the argument right.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    should make it so that you cant switch it.. Ever!
    No, they definitely shouldn't. People get attached to their characters, making it so they might end up permanently ruining theirs is not a good idea.

    Besides, you're already forced to live with it for at least a week. The people that want to change whenever typically look for the ability to change daily or even multiple times a day.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    In case you haven't noticed, they are conceptually very similar. I've used a ridiculous analogy as a comment on the nature of your statement.
    I'm also nowhere near a min-maxer. That just goes to show how far you guys go in your blind vendetta.
    They are not conceptually similar. In no way, shape or form. One is a real life disability. Other one is a nothing in a computer game.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopsnacker View Post
    So, it's now on the Beta Servers. It is so easy to return to covenants.

    At first: You lose no progress when you leave the covenants. If you return you are at the same spot as before and are fast as fuck with the heavy catchup mechanic for them.

    If you want to return to a covenant you have to do the following stuff:

    Clear Two Dungeons in the Zone of the Pact and a World Quest.
    Or you grind mobs in the Covenant Zone.
    You simply have to fill a bar, but doing two dungeons and one world quest is the fastest way.

    Then you have to wait for the next reset....and do the same quest again.

    So, Switching to a new Covenant takes 2 hours of gameplay maybe.
    And if you time it with the reset you start it on Monday/Tuesday and are in your old pact again at the next day.

    So much fucking drama over this.
    Until people get over the absurd concept that their covenant choice is going to make an earthshattering difference to their numbers (which sadly, people won't), there will always be too much drama over this.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Do people really want covenant switching to be instant? You really want to feel the need to HS out of a raid and change covenant after every boss to be optimal?

    I think this is fine, better than I'd hoped. Weekly is enough.
    no
    1. its not a boss by boss basis unless its an extremely strange tier
    2. nobody is arguin for covenants just for the power to not be tied to it

    a majority of ppl love the fact that each covenant has unique rewards and story but the idea "hey you cant do the same thing thyis other player of your spec can because you made a different choice" is dumb and has never happened in the game before and in fact has a quote from watcher talking about swapping talents (which is what covenant abilities are btw) and why making them easy is a good thing.

    i dont like that if i want to heal on my main dps toon then i need to swap conduits because the soulbinds are not designed around different roles and if i want to swap conduits around at all i have to wait a week for no reason.

    "choices need friction to feel meaningful" no they really dont they just need impact
    the difference between a kyrian and a venthyr monk in gameplay is simple
    teleport vs health stone
    burst cd vs burst cd
    "but soulbinds are meaningful"
    not really because you will be using the soulbind with the 3 potency slots and even if you dont then the soulbinds simply give a stat boost to your conduit ability which depending on your spec can be amazing or garbage
    theres one conduit for the class ability which is also kinda meh depending on spec because it changes duration and mastery bonus
    for example:
    WW mastery is a good stat so the kyrian soul bind that gives a mastery bonus when you pop the class ability is good
    MW mastery is garbage stat so its bonus is pointless
    "just swap to a different soulbind"

    ok for kyrian the second soulbind is more fit for a healer spec but it has the quickest unlock for the 3 potency slots and the season starts before you get to the end of the kyrian campaign so you dont get the third soulbind for a few weeks and even then its pretty subpar so it has to be balanced to the point where a potency slot is weaker than the other soulbinds ability which doesnt work because
    1st soulbind has 0 dps gains beyond the first unlock which is similar to the bonus from the second soulbind



    so in terms of output for all 3 specs in kyrian the second soulbind is the best overall
    this means that you will use that one soulbind for all 3 specs which also means you have 1 spec swap for the week
    this is also bad because you can have the conduits set in for the week unable to change and unlock a really good one but you cant use it until reset

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    Until people get over the absurd concept that their covenant choice is going to make an earthshattering difference to their numbers (which sadly, people won't), there will always be too much drama over this.
    you mean when people get over the fact that the covenants dont make an earth shattering change to their gameplay there will be too much drama

    because as far as covenant abilities go some have a huuuuuuuuge difference as high as 40%

    "but tuning"
    some work fundamentally different so simply adjusting numbers wont fix anything

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by AlmightyGerkin View Post
    That system by itself has been in wow since 2004. Not utilized imo till much later for farming raids for xmog/gear/mounts etc. All it is just a quicker way instead of waiting a week to change covenants
    A seven day timer on a simple respec has been in the game since 2004?
    No, it has most certainly not been in the game, ever.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    This is so stupid.

    How is a choice meningsful if you can just switch it every other week? The point of a meaningful choice is thag you pick one and then you live with the consequences and work around the downsides.

    They should make it so that you cant switch it.. Ever!
    In other words... damn I picked the wrong one, time to re-roll?

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    A seven day timer on a simple respec has been in the game since 2004?
    No, it has most certainly not been in the game, ever.
    Talking about weekly resets and quests tied to it not respeccing

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because there is nothing to adress in the first place. It's there by design, not by accident.
    Did I mention it being an accident? Because it seems like you are putting words in my mouth. Not the nicest of moves.
    Yes, it's intentional. It's outcome is still bad. That's the point of this entire discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    So choices should not have consequences when those consequences would actually affect you? You're just proving the argument right.
    You do a very good job of stomping down the nuance I've introduced in my argument and acting like it wasn't there in the first place.

    Making a power choice that everyone has to make should have consequences on your power. Classes do that. Making a utility choice that everyone has to make should have little effect on your power. Making a cosmetic choice should have negligent effects on your power. Making a story choice should have NO effect on your power.

    Blizzard is forcing us to make a singular choice that defines, story, cosmetics, utility, and power in a majorly consequential way, which is absolute bollocks. Break those up into their individual choices and I'd be on board. But otherwise this is just bad design.

    Concise enough?

  17. #177
    The Lightbringer The-Shan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Somewhere in the Badlands
    Posts
    3,749
    i dont want to change covenants though! I want to stay in the one I joined without being punished!
    thinly veiled high elf thread

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    i dont want to change covenants though! I want to stay in the one I joined without being punished!
    If you have no plan to raid Mythic asap and try to reach gladiator 2.4k asap and be the top 1% kind of thing than go with what convenant you want. May lose some healing/dps not to a great margin.

  19. #179
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    7,126
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    No, people are having fun in the wrong way again. Gotta nerf that.
    No fun allowed!
    Nerf what exactly? "Nerfing" would imply that you could change on the fly before and they removed it, alas that was never the case.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    2 weeks is not fast.
    If I want to PvP I don't want to wait 2 bloody weeks.

    What are you on about? It's a stupid system however you "white-knight" it.
    Making decisions in an RPG game is a "stupid system"? Jesus, I wonder how Elder Scrolls, PoE, Diablo, Final Fantasy, Everquest, WoW Classic, Runescape, Dragon Quest, etc, ever became popular. You know, they all have a system where you choose to do something, and oftentimes you can NEVER undo that decision unless you start over. But a game that lets you keep a character forever, requires you to make a decision and it's stupid?

    None of you people visiting this forum(myself included) will EVER be in a situation where the outcome of the boss fight, the PVP fight, the BG, whatever, will matter because of your Covenant. None of you.

    Yet here all of you are, constantly fucking complaining because Blizzard is doing something you don't want them to do. Don't play the fucking game if you cry this much. If you come to these forums and call people white knights because you disagree with their opinion, which was logical, you shouldn't be playing the game.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •