Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
LastLast
  1. #61
    Worst written character in WoW universe and somehow Christie Golden managed to make her even worse. Her schizophrenia between "KILL ALL THE HORDE" and desire for green cock is tedious for changing every single patch. Not to mention her plot armor saved her on numerous times from the gallows for treason - accomplice in patricide and regicide and effectively destroying Alliance naval superiority, treason in Undercity, purging Sunreavers from Dalaran when they were on the brink of joining the Alliance, just to name a few.
    Last edited by oblakoff; 2020-09-21 at 12:16 PM.

  2. #62
    Legendary!
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    6,070
    Jaina was one of the things I actually liked in BFA.

  3. #63
    Jaina became Lord Admiral because Kul Tiras is not a democracy. Katherine was never fit to rule and was incompetent, so she gave the title to Jaina after she forgave her. The main nobles of Kul Tiras supported Jaina because they owed their lives to the Alliance (which Jaina and the player represented). The people doesn't matter, because Kul Tiras is not a democracy. If they have problems with Jaina as Lord Admiral, they are free to rise up in revolution, but something tells me it wouldn't end well for them.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  4. #64
    Jaina got a lot of special treatment in BFA and it was incredibly noticeable.It sucks they pretty much recycled Frozen with her character and love of her family. Gave no recognition to you know, not the guy who helped her through her nervous breakdown in Tides of War. (Which made me develop a soft spot for this character. As they had a relationship in several novels) No, no let's sweep that under the rug and she throws him to the curb.

    Jaina must be the embodiment of Elsa. Inside and out.

    Regardless of all that. They did a good job with her character. I felt out of all the WC3 girls that headlined BFA. She most definitely, made out the best. She also got one of the best boss fights. A lot of people praise Battle of dazar'alor as the best raid in BFA and she survived to live another day.

    I'm not sure why Jaina made out the best. Compared to the other two (Sylvanas and Tyrande) that got completely demolished. I didn't think there was a huge Jaina fanbase,but I guess there was? Not entirely sure what happened there.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Hour of Twilight, Caverns of Time
    Posts
    3,246
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Jaina became Lord Admiral because Kul Tiras is not a democracy. Katherine was never fit to rule and was incompetent, so she gave the title to Jaina after she forgave her. The main nobles of Kul Tiras supported Jaina because they owed their lives to the Alliance (which Jaina and the player represented). The people doesn't matter, because Kul Tiras is not a democracy. If they have problems with Jaina as Lord Admiral, they are free to rise up in revolution, but something tells me it wouldn't end well for them.
    It'd be more accurate that she became Lord Admiral because of Nepotism rather than because Kul Tiras isn't a democracy, although there does seem to be more precedent for inheritance or predecessor passing on of the title rather than explicit need for voting to decide officially who the next one is. In fact it's ruling structure is closer to a Aristocracy considering the leveling Questline has you attempting to gain support for the player from the Stormsong House and Waycrest House and degrading/disgracing the Ashvane house so that you have enough power to confront the Lord Admiral and House of Proudmoore and the Houses are treated as having their own significant share of power in the Admiralty. Additionally what's this about Katherine being unfit to rule and incompetent? She has literally been ruling without issue since Daelin died 11 years prior and she had been truly incompetent Jaina wouldn't have been returned from Thros. Probably cause she would've sent Taelia instead of the player to investigate. I also have to query why you wouldn't think a Kul'tiran rebellion would end well for them. The docks and shipyards are treated as a separate entity from the House of Proudmoore and there are two other Houses, one of which is the benefactor for the Tidesages, who would have the power and rights to oppose the decisions of the Lord Admiral if they so choose.
    Argus' Nightmare Continues With Shadowlands
    Daily reminder that Steam has never had a monopoly on PC Gaming, don't mistake age and popularity for domination.
    Because people don't understand words: Forced and Necessity

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    It'd be more accurate that she became Lord Admiral because of Nepotism rather than because Kul Tiras isn't a democracy, although there does seem to be more precedent for inheritance or predecessor passing on of the title rather than explicit need for voting to decide officially who the next one is. In fact it's ruling structure is closer to a Aristocracy considering the leveling Questline has you attempting to gain support for the player from the Stormsong House and Waycrest House and degrading/disgracing the Ashvane house so that you have enough power to confront the Lord Admiral and House of Proudmoore and the Houses are treated as having their own significant share of power in the Admiralty. Additionally what's this about Katherine being unfit to rule and incompetent? She has literally been ruling without issue since Daelin died 11 years prior and she had been truly incompetent Jaina wouldn't have been returned from Thros. Probably cause she would've sent Taelia instead of the player to investigate. I also have to query why you wouldn't think a Kul'tiran rebellion would end well for them. The docks and shipyards are treated as a separate entity from the House of Proudmoore and there are two other Houses, one of which is the benefactor for the Tidesages, who would have the power and rights to oppose the decisions of the Lord Admiral if they so choose.
    All noble houses support Jaina. The army and fleet support her (as they are led by her brother). The only ones who could have issues with her are the common folk, so meaningless fodder.

    Katherine was a terrible ruler, she was weak and incompetent and pretty much a puppet for Ashvane. Hell if the Alliance never landed on Kul Tiras then the kingdom would've been destroyed either by Gorak Tul or Ashvane. It is therefore not a surprise that Katherine abdicated in Jaina's favour, who has experience leading nations (Theramore, Dalaran).
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  7. #67
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Hour of Twilight, Caverns of Time
    Posts
    3,246
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    All noble houses support Jaina. The army and fleet support her (as they are led by her brother). The only ones who could have issues with her are the common folk, so meaningless fodder.

    Katherine was a terrible ruler, she was weak and incompetent and pretty much a puppet for Ashvane. Hell if the Alliance never landed on Kul Tiras then the kingdom would've been destroyed either by Gorak Tul or Ashvane. It is therefore not a surprise that Katherine abdicated in Jaina's favour, who has experience leading nations (Theramore, Dalaran).
    Yes the Noble Houses support Jaina because they pledged their support to the Player who actually helped with their troubles and the player is forced to support Jaina since the game says so. Whilst unsure about the army, the fleet certainly does support her considering she's been appointed Lord Admiral and that is what the role entails. The common folk are meaningless fodder? You mean the people who make up the Navy, Army, Guards, Dockworkers, Tidesages and Civilians of Boralus? Yeah completely meaningless. /s

    She literally ruled with no issues for 11 years and it's only as of recent with the Waycrest House summoning Gorak Tul to their benefit/detriment and Azerite bursting forth from Azeroth and Azshara resurfacing and taking the opportunity to tempt both Ashvane and the Elder Tidesages with promises of power that Kul' Tiras was in trouble. You don't lead a Noble House and act as Lord Admiral for 11 years if you're "weak and incompetent". Also you mean if the player never arrived, the Alliance does f all in helping Kul' Tiras solve it's problems.

    It was a massive surprise as it makes no sense, both examples of Jaina leading a nation are displays of her terrible experience as they both ended in genocide (one committed against her and one committed by her) as a result of her proclaiming a stance of neutrality and going completely against it (Theramore was meant to be a neutral settlement, it ferried Alliance soldiers, supplies and weaponry and acted as a base for the Alliance armies to attack Horde Outposts and settlements from and Dalaran was supposed to be neutral and removed from the war between the factions, Jaina uses Dalaran resources to transport, secure and trace an artifact that is being contested in the Faction War and she only goes after it after having learned the Horde has interest in said Artifact, additionally she incriminates someone unrelated to the breach in neutrality and uses that as a excuse to freely murder people in the streets of Dalaran). Jaina is a prime example of a horrible, incompetent leader.
    Argus' Nightmare Continues With Shadowlands
    Daily reminder that Steam has never had a monopoly on PC Gaming, don't mistake age and popularity for domination.
    Because people don't understand words: Forced and Necessity

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    It is therefore not a surprise that Katherine abdicated in Jaina's favour, who has experience leading nations (Theramore, Dalaran).
    Both cities turned out quite good :>

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by oblakoff View Post
    Both cities turned out quite good :>
    You can thank Thrall for that, since he gave all military power to a powerhungry psycopath. Thrall even lamented how the fall of Theramore was indirectly his fault.

    As for Dalaran, it did end up quite good.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  10. #70
    Yep, and Jaina did not even got revenge for that, because "muh Thrall, so good". As for Dalaran it was Jaina that murdered Sunreavers and right into the moment Varian negotiated their inclusion in the Alliance.

    It goes beyond incompetence, this is treason plain and simple.

  11. #71
    For me Jaina was one of the few good things BfA got. The cinematic Daughter of the Sea was a good start and then the quests were good because showed what she suffered since W3. The quest about her depression and how her mother forgive her was one of the best moments in WoW, but if i can choose one it will be the meeting at Theramore, that moment when she sees his brother and yell at Baine "is he the bomb this time" it gives me chills.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by oblakoff View Post
    Yep, and Jaina did not even got revenge for that, because "muh Thrall, so good". As for Dalaran it was Jaina that murdered Sunreavers and right into the moment Varian negotiated their inclusion in the Alliance.

    It goes beyond incompetence, this is treason plain and simple.
    It was treason indeed, hence why they were purged.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  13. #73
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    8,189
    Wasted potential, I suppose, but I'm glad they've just picked a lane for her and hope they keep her in it. The constant back and forth between "Horde bad!" and "but peace is good!" wasn't very fulfilling, and when Jaina went super aggro she became a bit grating as a character. So even if things kind of fizzled out, I guess I'm fine with where she ended up.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    As with all of her character shifts, I have no problem with it in isolation I just want blizzard to stop jerking her around back and forth betwene pro peace and pro war with horde like the writers are playing a game of tug of war. Just pick a direction and stick with it.
    I get what you're saying but also no. Characters that don't change in response to major events in their lives are stale, predictable, one-note, and not interesting to experience in stories.

    It would be like criticizing Tyrande for her extreme reaction to the Burning of Teldrassil, or Anduin's to the death of his father.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I get what you're saying but also no. Characters that don't change in response to major events in their lives are stale, predictable, one-note, and not interesting to experience in stories.

    It would be like criticizing Tyrande for her extreme reaction to the Burning of Teldrassil, or Anduin's to the death of his father.
    Again I don't have a problem with any of the shifts individually. It's the back and forth that annoyed me.

    She gets mad at the Horde post theramore, makes sense. Then gets over it and tries to be neutral again leading Dalaran. Whoops MOP happens, okay she's back to alliance and anti horde. Then war crimes happens and she mellows out again. Oh no the Horde 'betrayed' Varian at the broken shore, back to aggressively hating the horde. Then her character arc in BFA has shifted her back again.

    It's that tug of war, that back and forth, that annoys me, not any of the shifts in and of themselves. When all put together it feels less like a natural character arc and more like a tug of war between the game writers and the book writers until Golden was hired on so hopefully she won't be swinging back into 'kill the horde' anytime soon.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    Frankly no and I can't imagine what 'amazing' story people believed happened when they praise it. To quote myself from another thread on a summary of her BfA story:
    Sincerely, bravo. Her arc was some of BfA's most absurd writing and that's saying something.

    "Beware the Daughter of the Sea" as she does exactly nothing of consequence and turns loony peacenik again, remembering the old days when she had green fever for Thrall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Sincerely, bravo. Her arc was some of BfA's most absurd writing and that's saying something.

    "Beware the Daughter of the Sea" as she does exactly nothing of consequence and turns loony peacenik again, remembering the old days when she had green fever for Thrall.
    The only individual moment that I hated was the post troll city raid moment where the Alliance is all 'oh it'd be mean to press our advantage now.' In general I'm just annoyed that it's another moment of back and forth when we've seen Jaina flipped back and forth several times already. That's not to say a character can never have a change that doesn't stick in the long term but they did it too much with her.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Again I don't have a problem with any of the shifts individually. It's the back and forth that annoyed me.

    She gets mad at the Horde post theramore, makes sense. Then gets over it and tries to be neutral again leading Dalaran. Whoops MOP happens, okay she's back to alliance and anti horde. Then war crimes happens and she mellows out again. Oh no the Horde 'betrayed' Varian at the broken shore, back to aggressively hating the horde. Then her character arc in BFA has shifted her back again.

    It's that tug of war, that back and forth, that annoys me, not any of the shifts in and of themselves. When all put together it feels less like a natural character arc and more like a tug of war between the game writers and the book writers until Golden was hired on so hopefully she won't be swinging back into 'kill the horde' anytime soon.
    It's also happened over 20 years. It's not like this is flip-flopping overnight. A lot of major events can happen to a character over 20 years. I'm barely over 20 years old. A lot happened in there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  19. #79
    The stuff about her reconciling with her family in Kul'Tiras was great, as was the general shift away from crazy insane mage back to her earlier characterization.

    Most of the stuff involving the Horde and the faction war was terrible, but that's hardly a Jaina-specific problem. Blizzard just can't write compelling Alliance vs. Horde conflict and need to stop trying.

  20. #80
    I thought it was boring and predictable. I guess if you like nice feelgood bullshit then great, but I mostly found it cringe (magic flying ship was so dumb) and just added to the lameness that is the Alliance and all their human potential.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •