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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Because the internet is an anarchy state. There is no central authority, there is no law, no police.

    Remove those from real life and you will get the same results.
    yeah, imagine an internet police who would have the autority to let say ban any internet connection you have for 6 month, years if you do toxic /bad thing on internet, peoples would stop being jerk lol

  2. #262
    I don't play this game anymore because of the awful community. I have a million other games to play with other people online, and WoW isn't even that good anymore, so if the game is lackluster and the community sucks, I'll play something else. The community has always been pretty bad but you could at least join a decent guild with friendly people and it would be fine, that doesn't exist at all anymore, especially if you don't raid. There's either mega guilds where hardly anyone talks to each other, or tight knit raiding guilds, there is pretty much no such thing as "social, friendly" guilds left in this game anymore and I feel like that's a pretty big indicator of how bad the community is now.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Oh wow, really? Do you practice what you preach? Not here since physical punishment is impossible but in real life? I would love to know.
    As in do I never feel the need to physically attack someone regardless of what they say to me IRL? Yes. Do I go around venting every little frustration directly to the people who cause them (the slow ass grandma driving 10 under the speed limit, the fat ass family clogging up the entire walkway in the supermarket, the asshole walking around with a confederate flag shirt)? No. Know why? Because society can't handle it. Either they get upset at you simply for being upset at them for what is a perfectly valid reason that shouldn't NEED to be handled with decorum (because.. come on.. how the fuck is it not obvious you're the problem if you're going 10 under the speed limit... get the fuck off the road if you can't function properly for _any_ reason) or they would engage in physical altercations and it's really just not worth it to play that game, regardless of if I could whip their ass or not.

    I absolutely talk like that to my friends. We're all the same type who can take all the shit we give out without feeling butthurt or getting permanently upset at one another.

    "Bro, learn to fucking drive you pansy"
    "Holy shit you fucked that up"
    "You're getting kinda fat and should chill on the tacos hombre"
    etc.

    Real. Down to earth. Very fast communication. Exactly what needs to be heard to draw attention to the issue. No hurt feelings and we move on two seconds later.

    We also have some of the most vitriolic debates about stuff and still love each other, go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of our way for each other, etc. It's actually the opposite of toxic, because we can be so real without any concern of damage to the relationship, because we all know what each of us is REALLY about, and the things we're actually concerned with that we deem make people good or bad (things like being a racist fuck) we KNOW none of us have.

    I want to be like that with everyone and I want everyone to respond to it the way my real friends do. I feel like so many people never get to have that type of deep actual relationship with anyone specifically because they're constantly walking around being fake nice, never expressing their actual concerns in the manner they feel them.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2020-10-01 at 03:20 AM.

  4. #264
    I've played WoW for 15 years. I was 24 when I started. 39 now. Let me also preface this by saying that I am Norwegian and center-left. A socialist liberal technocrat.

    There have always been toxic players. I think the main difference between 2005 and 2020 is the increased culture war rhetoric and diminishing tolerance. When I went to elementary and high-school, we were still taught that we had to not necessarily respect, but at least accept, each other's differing opinions. Nowadays, the left preaches tolerance of everything - except different opinions. Populist politics on both sides don't help. We are abandoning the basic principles of Western philosophy for authoritarianism on both sides. As a liberal, I feel lost in the politics of today. A man without a party or country. And I notice it extends into the online sphere. And not just WoW. It's more fundamental than "WoW players are toxic". It's more like we've become polarized and we're all more toxic than we used to be.

  5. #265
    Banned Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Too many people consider themselves to be the center of the universe. Add anonymity to that, and you've got yourself a fine cesspool.


    There's nothing "new" about it though. Some of the worst behaviour ever recorded in WoW for example, happened in Vanilla... Where "server identity mattered" and all that BS.

    People gon' people. It's a madhouse, as my daddeh would say.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I don't play this game anymore because of the awful community. I have a million other games to play with other people online, and WoW isn't even that good anymore, so if the game is lackluster and the community sucks, I'll play something else. The community has always been pretty bad but you could at least join a decent guild with friendly people and it would be fine, that doesn't exist at all anymore, especially if you don't raid. There's either mega guilds where hardly anyone talks to each other, or tight knit raiding guilds, there is pretty much no such thing as "social, friendly" guilds left in this game anymore and I feel like that's a pretty big indicator of how bad the community is now.
    That's weird, it "not existing" yet I literally have such a guild... On 2 factions. One I got in contact with via the official forums, the other was advertising in trade chat.

  6. #266
    The answer is easy and has never changed:

    Anonymity + Lack of accountability +Need to show off or feel like you actually have power = Be an asshole to others.

    Most of the people who pop off at the mouth online would never DARE say the very same thing to some of us IRL. As a retired soldier, former cop, and part time bouncer, this 350 pound tower with tattoos would have someone swallowing teeth if they even got half as toxic in person. Most of the toxics are keyboard cowboys who get to see what it is like to be the bully rather than be bullied, and end up looking just as ridiculous. Thankfully, there are still some great players out there who just want to play the game and be part of a community, without being a shithead.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeWarlock View Post
    The answer is easy and has never changed:

    Anonymity + Lack of accountability +Need to show off or feel like you actually have power = Be an asshole to others.

    Most of the people who pop off at the mouth online would never DARE say the very same thing to some of us IRL. As a retired soldier, former cop, and part time bouncer, this 350 pound tower with tattoos would have someone swallowing teeth if they even got half as toxic in person. Most of the toxics are keyboard cowboys who get to see what it is like to be the bully rather than be bullied, and end up looking just as ridiculous. Thankfully, there are still some great players out there who just want to play the game and be part of a community, without being a shithead.
    I avoid Discord and other similar low quality forums for that reason.

    There's the fact the demographic for videogames is 15-30 year old males, and that's basically the peak period for peacock display type of behavior.

    It is also more dense in "hardcore" content because the fact is college students with part time jobs and young men trying to prove themselves have more time to spare on doing anything intensely.

    These people will not grow up to appreciate mature exchange of ideas anytime soon, so the best approach is to let them know early you will not dignify their bratty behavior with further response.

    These people need to be socially marginalized and embarrassed to learn that uncivilized behavior will not pay out for them.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeWarlock View Post
    As a retired soldier, former cop, and part time bouncer, this 350 pound tower with tattoos would have someone swallowing teeth if they even got half as toxic in person.
    presented without comment

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by pfbe View Post
    presented without comment
    If you have something to say, feel free.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  10. #270
    Blademaster Tuskla's Avatar
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    Simple immaturity. Lots of young people playing the game. Those of us who played since the beginning are way more chill.

  11. #271
    Gaming has always been a homestead for immaturity and nobody was ever surprised by it in he past, yet people are somehow becoming increasingly flabbergasted by it. The so-called "toxic behaviour" is in fact a huge problem on the Blizzard team as of late. From unreasonable censorship of certain words backed up by completely nonsensical explanations and backtracking on story and design choices made by those that made Blizzard one of the gaming greats, all the way to double standards on different hot topics. You lead by giving an example and what is now called "toxic behaviour" was simply called clowning around, more often than not resulting in players never really engaging in anything serious with these people gameplay wise.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2020-10-03 at 12:43 AM.

  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    As in do I never feel the need to physically attack someone regardless of what they say to me IRL? Yes. Do I go around venting every little frustration directly to the people who cause them (the slow ass grandma driving 10 under the speed limit, the fat ass family clogging up the entire walkway in the supermarket, the asshole walking around with a confederate flag shirt)? No. Know why? Because society can't handle it. Either they get upset at you simply for being upset at them for what is a perfectly valid reason that shouldn't NEED to be handled with decorum (because.. come on.. how the fuck is it not obvious you're the problem if you're going 10 under the speed limit... get the fuck off the road if you can't function properly for _any_ reason) or they would engage in physical altercations and it's really just not worth it to play that game, regardless of if I could whip their ass or not.

    I absolutely talk like that to my friends. We're all the same type who can take all the shit we give out without feeling butthurt or getting permanently upset at one another.

    "Bro, learn to fucking drive you pansy"
    "Holy shit you fucked that up"
    "You're getting kinda fat and should chill on the tacos hombre"
    etc.

    Real. Down to earth. Very fast communication. Exactly what needs to be heard to draw attention to the issue. No hurt feelings and we move on two seconds later.

    We also have some of the most vitriolic debates about stuff and still love each other, go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of our way for each other, etc. It's actually the opposite of toxic, because we can be so real without any concern of damage to the relationship, because we all know what each of us is REALLY about, and the things we're actually concerned with that we deem make people good or bad (things like being a racist fuck) we KNOW none of us have.

    I want to be like that with everyone and I want everyone to respond to it the way my real friends do. I feel like so many people never get to have that type of deep actual relationship with anyone specifically because they're constantly walking around being fake nice, never expressing their actual concerns in the manner they feel them.
    I like you. Words mean nothing. Actions are the real way to know a person.
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  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargrik View Post
    Because of this (and the implications of internet anonymity):

    Clearly REH never played on an FFA PvP server in those MMOs that have them, because if he had, he'd have seen that people being able to kill your character leads to 10x more smack talk, not less.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    As in do I never feel the need to physically attack someone regardless of what they say to me IRL? Yes. Do I go around venting every little frustration directly to the people who cause them (the slow ass grandma driving 10 under the speed limit, the fat ass family clogging up the entire walkway in the supermarket, the asshole walking around with a confederate flag shirt)? No. Know why? Because society can't handle it. Either they get upset at you simply for being upset at them for what is a perfectly valid reason that shouldn't NEED to be handled with decorum (because.. come on.. how the fuck is it not obvious you're the problem if you're going 10 under the speed limit... get the fuck off the road if you can't function properly for _any_ reason) or they would engage in physical altercations and it's really just not worth it to play that game, regardless of if I could whip their ass or not.

    I absolutely talk like that to my friends. We're all the same type who can take all the shit we give out without feeling butthurt or getting permanently upset at one another.

    "Bro, learn to fucking drive you pansy"
    "Holy shit you fucked that up"
    "You're getting kinda fat and should chill on the tacos hombre"
    etc.

    Real. Down to earth. Very fast communication. Exactly what needs to be heard to draw attention to the issue. No hurt feelings and we move on two seconds later.

    We also have some of the most vitriolic debates about stuff and still love each other, go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of our way for each other, etc. It's actually the opposite of toxic, because we can be so real without any concern of damage to the relationship, because we all know what each of us is REALLY about, and the things we're actually concerned with that we deem make people good or bad (things like being a racist fuck) we KNOW none of us have.

    I want to be like that with everyone and I want everyone to respond to it the way my real friends do. I feel like so many people never get to have that type of deep actual relationship with anyone specifically because they're constantly walking around being fake nice, never expressing their actual concerns in the manner they feel them.
    It's super-toxic to treat strangers like that, dude. Like messed-up.

    You talk about "fake-nice" and shit, but your whole deal there is just fake-rude. You're pretending to be rude to these guys, because you know it's not really rude to them.

    But to strangers, it's just rude. It doesn't look like fake-rude. And what you're seeing as "fake-nice"? A lot of that is just people who are actually nice. It's not covering stuff up, it's not hiding stuff, it's not (usually) preventing communication, it's just that some people operate and talk in a different way to you and your buddies. Not everyone is identical, and people who are different to you, and communicate differently to you aren't any more "fake" than you are. Seems like you need to understand that.

    Like with your friends, that's totally fine, but do you not get how it's different with strangers? You call your buddy a "fat fuck", he knows you love him, he knows you support him, he knows you want the best for him. He doesn't hear "fat fuck" mentally, he hears a friend saying "I love you man but I'm worried about you because you're eating too much and I don't want you to die". You see how that works?

    Can you not see how a stranger sees some dude muttering "fat fuck" at them doesn't see that? And it's not true, either. You don't love them like you love you buddy. You don't care that much about them. You may have a general love of humanity (some people do), but that's not going to be evident. People have their own lives, their own problems, their own ways of communicating. You don't understand them, and you're demeaning them for not being exactly like you, not communicating exactly like you, not psychically knowing what you want them to understand.

    I'm not saying you're a bad person, but this is ignorance on your part. You're not better than other people - just different. I can say the same things to my buddies, but I don't say them the same way. That doesn't make it better or worse. But I do think not being extremely rude to strangers, who can't see the love, and who you don't love (be real) is not cool, and you need to understand that. It doesn't help anyone. Some people have anxiety or body-image issues, for example. You call some stranger a "fat fuck", even if they are, and even if you mean it helpfully, maybe you cause them serious problems, because they've been damaged by other stuff. So how about just don't do it? Save it for people you actually know and who understand what you really mean by it, or learn to be super-big-brain and have different ways of communicating with different people.

    Also, re: your last bit, it's true some people are too fake-nice, but some people do the same shit by communicating the way you do too - they are fake-macho, fake-rude, and they hide behind that stuff and avoid honest relationships just as well and as much as the fake-nice people do, until they have some kind of breakdown. Not saying you're like that, but I bet at least one of your buddies if, if you have more than about 5-6.
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2020-10-03 at 01:02 AM.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    It's super-toxic to treat strangers like that, dude. Like messed-up.
    Only because of the current connotations, but I agree.

    You talk about "fake-nice" and shit, but your whole deal there is just fake-rude. You're pretending to be rude to these guys, because you know it's not really rude to them.
    It's really not, but more on that in a second.

    But to strangers, it's just rude. It doesn't look like fake-rude.
    Sometimes rude is what is needed for people to wake the fuck up and realize they have a real problem.

    And what you're seeing as "fake-nice"? A lot of that is just people who are actually nice.
    That's fair. I'm a proponent for being positive and kind when the situation warrants it just as much as I am for being a real asshole when it's appropriate.

    Not everyone is identical, and people who are different to you, and communicate differently to you aren't any more "fake" than you are. Seems like you need to understand that.
    No no, I understand it, I just have certain feelings regarding what that indicates about the person to me. Let's just say I don't view people who need that positively.

    Like with your friends, that's totally fine, but do you not get how it's different with strangers? You call your buddy a "fat fuck", he knows you love him, he knows you support him, he knows you want the best for him. He doesn't hear "fat fuck" mentally, he hears a friend saying "I love you man but I'm worried about you because you're eating too much and I don't want you to die". You see how that works?
    I do see how that works, but I'd rather offer a secondary interpretation:

    My buddy knows I love him and that I want what's best, yes, but that also doesn't absolve him from being responsible or making mistakes, and we're the type of people who know that. When we fuck up, we expect to get chastised. We know the sting is part of what makes us learn to not repeat the bad behavior, and we're all decently stress-acclimated people. Probably not all of us on the same range as, say, a navy seal... but up there in comparison to most people who seem to get offended when someone tells them they're being an idiot.

    not psychically knowing what you want them to understand.
    But that's the point: I don't want to double speak. I want to say exactly what I think and mean. Walking up to some rando I don't know, who is indeed a gross fat fuck and saying "You're a gross fat fuck" might be rude, but if it's true... it's true. That person should self-reflect, admit they are what they are, take it, and move on. Hell, they can get mad if they want to, but the whole "hrrrrr that person made me ANGRY so I need to seek vengeance somehow!" needs to stop. Doxing, keying a car, etc. Just be fucking angry and use your harmless words back at me. I'll laugh at you as they roll off and move on with life.

    Truth should be the priority, even if it's rude or mean. If that fat person were the type of person I like, they'd realize they are what I called them and be spurred to change it instead of getting upset at me for calling them out. Again, if the truth is hurtful, you deserve to be hurt by it in hopes that you'll change. If you refuse to change, then you deserve to just be hurt perpetually until you accept it or do something about it.

    It doesn't help anyone.
    Disagree. Being truthful and venting has been proven to be psychologically beneficial to human psyche. I'm strong enough to shoulder those thoughts without having it supremely negatively impact me, but it would be nice to not have to ever again, instead being free from that burden.

    Some people have anxiety or body-image issues, for example.
    Sounds like a personal weakness they need to iron out.

    You call some stranger a "fat fuck", even if they are, and even if you mean it helpfully, maybe you cause them serious problems, because they've been damaged by other stuff.
    Again, sounds like something they need to work on. In my world, you're right. This type of stuff literally couldn't exist, because these people couldn't function in "BeepBoo" world without getting even more severely mentally messed up. However, you can't really convince me life wouldn't be better if everyone could share their true thoughts and emotions and not fear anything more than just more words coming their way.

    learn to be super-big-brain and have different ways of communicating with different people.
    You act as if I don't do this already. I'm plenty well adapted at acting in public because it's necessary, but that's not the point I'm making. I'd love to not have to be. I'd love to be able to vent my emotions and say whatever came to my mind without fear of any actual punishment in any form. Hence: I like toxicity in video games and early days of internet.

    Not saying you're like that, but I bet at least one of your buddies if, if you have more than about 5-6.
    The group of friends in question (the people I'd consider my best friends, or really... the only people I'd consider TRUE friends because they're the only people who see me without my nice-guy mask and still like me anyways) is actually right at 5 people including my wife. Prior to her, it was just my 4 br0s.

    Just another example of where it would be better to communicate straight and truthful :lol: I wouldn't have to waste 6 months+ developing relationships and finding people I ACTUALLY like if everyone was up front and spoke their actual mind instead of filtering. Could find "soul mates" waaaaaaaay easier with much less investment.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2020-10-03 at 07:31 AM.

  15. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    But that's the point: I don't want to double speak. I want to say exactly what I think and mean. Walking up to some rando I don't know, who is indeed a gross fat fuck and saying "You're a gross fat fuck" might be rude, but if it's true... it's true. That person should self-reflect, admit they are what they are, take it, and move on. Hell, they can get mad if they want to, but the whole "hrrrrr that person made me ANGRY so I need to seek vengeance somehow!" needs to stop. Doxing, keying a car, etc. Just be fucking angry and use your harmless words back at me. I'll laugh at you as they roll off and move on with life.
    Sorry, you're being ignorant about other people here.

    Humans don't all speak the same. Words don't mean the same things to everyone. Even if you speak the same language. It's like how in Australia, someone can call you a cunt, and it can be a term of friendship, whereas in the US, if you call someone a cunt, you're lucky if you don't get beaten unconscious. And you don't understand that a lot of people have been victimized by people who speak like you do, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Truth should be the priority, even if it's rude or mean. If that fat person were the type of person I like, they'd realize they are what I called them and be spurred to change it instead of getting upset at me for calling them out. Again, if the truth is hurtful, you deserve to be hurt by it in hopes that you'll change. If you refuse to change, then you deserve to just be hurt perpetually until you accept it or do something about it.
    That someone is a "fat fuck" is subjective. I've heard it applied to people who weren't even overweight, but just a funny shape, or in one case, because they had an colostomy bag and it made them look fat because of where it had to be. And just randomly saying it to strangers is moronic. You have no idea if they need to hear it, or if it'll help them. You're acting entirely selfishly and ignorantly by acting like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Disagree. Being truthful and venting has been proven to be psychologically beneficial to human psyche. I'm strong enough to shoulder those thoughts without having it supremely negatively impact me, but it would be nice to not have to ever again, instead being free from that burden.
    To yourself, not to venting to others. There's a big difference between venting your own frustrations, and attacking strangers. Also, you ever played Battletech? Humans are kind of like Battlemechs, we build up frustration like they build up heat, and we need to vent it sometimes. But the thing is - sometimes - you can restrain yourself in game or whatever, and vent out of game. If you don't, you should be considering your own weakness. Maybe vent before going into a game if you're going to scream at strangers?

    Verbally abusing and belittling strangers is extremely damaging, and just as well-established to be damaging as venting is to help the person who does it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Sounds like a personal weakness they need to iron out.
    It's a mental illness, or psychological damage, not "a weakness". That like saying being ill is "a weakness". Just silly. You adding more damage is just like you kicking someone with a broken leg because they're too slow. That's just stupid and mean. See, with your friends, you know their damage, and you don't compound it. With strangers, you don't know their damage. And if you choose to add to it? Guess what, you're the problem, not the solution. You're being ignorant of the problems others have, and selfish in putting your desire to vent ahead of their damage. Don't compound other people's damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    You act as if I don't do this already. I'm plenty well adapted at acting in public because it's necessary, but that's not the point I'm making. I'd love to not have to be. I'd love to be able to vent my emotions and say whatever came to my mind without fear of any actual punishment in any form. Hence: I like toxicity in video games and early days of internet.
    I was there in the early days - I started on the internet in literally 1992 with Compuserve. People who vent constantly with no filter do hideous psychological damage to other people. Communication wasn't "good", it was terrible half the time back then because people just devolved into screaming abuse. Yeah sometimes people would "bro" out of it, but a lot of them wouldn't, and the number of people who have been pushed into self-harm or suicide from people telling them how trash they are on the internet (which was often the one place where people didn't do that, because their family were horrible or whatever) is significant.

    I mean, me personally, I can count on one hand the number of times someone on the internet back in that phase told me something I "needed to hear" - once. And they weren't rude or toxic or crushing about it. They were slightly more direct than you might be in a normal conversation, but they didn't abuse me or anything, they just explained what I was doing, and made me think about it. But the number of times I was just abused or treated like trash by some nut for no reason? Thousands of times. Countless times. That's what your celebrating, though, I guess, which is weird AF to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Just another example of where it would be better to communicate straight and truthful :lol: I wouldn't have to waste 6 months+ developing relationships and finding people I ACTUALLY like if everyone was up front and spoke their actual mind instead of filtering. Could find "soul mates" waaaaaaaay easier with much less investment.
    This isn't realistic - the reality is, there are very few people who are your "soul mates" however you act, and if you think it's just because people aren't being honest enough, you're wrong. It's because most people aren't so much like you that they're in that range. Being honest does help find those people. Honest doesn't mean abusing and belittling strangers though.

    And you keep saying "truthful", but you don't seem to know what that word means, because you're only interested in YOUR truth, not other people's truths. You've said that by saying things like "that's weakness". Nah. That's your view. Your truth. Their truth is it's damage, or it's something they're working on, or trying to recover from, and you increasing the damage by effectively stomping on a broken leg is not helpful.

    It's particularly problematic because humans are deeply emotional creatures (especially people who think they aren't lol), and what is true at one moment, might not be true 30 seconds later. You can be enraged at someone because you don't understand or misunderstand a situation, but if you understood it, you wouldn't be, and the moment you do, that rage just flows away. So you screaming at someone for being "bad" or whatever in a game, when you don't understand their situation (and you definitely don't, if they're not in the room with you, and maybe even then), isn't some meaningful "truth" people need to "understand". It's just how you feel right then. You could express it more constructively instead of being toxic, but you seem to think being constructive is bad.

    EDIT - Another way to look at it is, what you're suggesting is basically "radical honesty", which is an existing psychological technique. But it's a flawed technique, as history has shown. It tends to promote the self over others, and stress short-term feelings and so on, and it requires trust, so only really works well when everyone knows each other well. Otherwise it just tends to do damage and just make the person doing it feel better at the cost of others.

    Anyway the key is TRUST - with people who trust you and you trust this works decently, esp. if they do the same. With strangers? They don't and shouldn't trust you (because you could be a sociopath or trying to hurt them or whatever), and you can't trust them to not use your honesty against you. So the technique falls flat (which is why it's been parodied a fair bit, including in Silicon Valley (The TV series).)

    TLDR: Keep this technique to people where you have mutual bonds of trust.
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2020-10-03 at 11:26 AM.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    whereas in the US, if you call someone a cunt, you're lucky if you don't get beaten unconscious.
    This is precisely the problem. I don't care what way someone means something, you shouldn't have to fear physical repercussions. That people get overwhelmed by their emotions to the point they feel the need to physically harm someone is an issue. A personal one, at that. Realistically, words mean and do nothing. They aren't a semi plowing into your car. It's not a baseball bat hitting your knee cap. It's all mental, and if you're what I consider a proper human, you can control how that stuff affects you. If you can't, even if it's due to illness, that is still also weakness.


    You're acting entirely selfishly and ignorantly by acting like this.
    Hey, in my world, they'd be free to verbally express whatever the fuck they wanted back to me or about me out of the blue, as well. Inb4 "but clearly that doesn't impact you!" Yes. And that's what I'm getting at.

    It's a mental illness, or psychological damage, not "a weakness".
    Being ill is being weak. Just because you might not be able to do anything about it or it isn't your fault doesn't mean it's not a weakness. Someone with muscular dystrophy is weaker and less capable than someone without. Someone who can't handle getting yelled at without having it make them feel like garbage and wanting to commit suicide is also weak compared to the people I think are the best types.

    it was terrible half the time back then because people just devolved into screaming abuse.
    but, no harm no foul in my mind because they literally COULDN'T resort to physical violence.

    the number of people who have been pushed into self-harm or suicide from people telling them how trash they are on the internet (which was often the one place where people didn't do that, because their family were horrible or whatever) is significant.
    Here's the crux of the issue. I hate mentally weak people. I hate all forms of weakness. I'd say some things, but I've been banned before. Suffice to say, this taking it's natural course is ok with me. Whatever that looks like.

    That's what your celebrating, though, I guess, which is weird AF to me.
    That's fair. I know it's weird to see someone celebrating a system of "can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" because most people abhor that type of thing.



    This isn't realistic
    Woah woah woah, since when did I ever say what I wanted is realistic? It's just my dream world breh. I know good and well it will never happen. I just like/liked the internet and online interaction because it allows me to experience it.

    You've said that by saying things like "that's weakness". Nah. That's your view. Your truth. Their truth is it's damage, or it's something they're working on, or trying to recover from, and you increasing the damage by effectively stomping on a broken leg is not helpful.
    Who says I care about being helpful?

    You could express it more constructively instead of being toxic, but you seem to think being constructive is bad.
    You're not picking up what I'm putting down, and I'll do my best to talk about it... but if I get banned, I'll blame you because I routinely get banned for talking about this type of stuff.

    I'm fine if toxicity whittles the player base down to only people who know what they're fucking doing or only people who can withstand the toxicity when they don't. That sounds AMAZING to me. Sure, it sucks for blizz's bottom line, which is why they now have policies against that behavior, but I still wish it were that way.

    EDIT - Another way to look at it is, what you're suggesting is basically "radical honesty", which is an existing psychological technique. But it's a flawed technique, as history has shown. It tends to promote the self over others, and stress short-term feelings and so on, and it requires trust, so only really works well when everyone knows each other well. Otherwise it just tends to do damage and just make the person doing it feel better at the cost of others.
    I know and love the concept of radical honestly, and it's actually the basis for my entire thought process on toxicity and how I want the world to communicate. Again, I know the world can't handle it. I'd be fine if the only people who existed were people who COULD communicate that way, though.

    TLDR: Keep this technique to people where you have mutual bonds of trust.
    I will... so long as I'm forced to. Give me a game that has none of these types of garbage policies, or a feces slinging section of the internet like 4chan, though, and I'll gladly take a glimpse at the world as I wish it were and not give a damn about the "damage" it causes.

  17. #277
    It's really not complicated. There's on average more people in online environments that behave poorly because there's not so serious consequences. So, it's not really a problem, more of a symptom of the platform. I don't think there's much that can be done that hasn't already without the internet changing a lot. Just find good people! There's plenty of them, they are just not causing a ruckus.

  18. #278
    Wow is so toxic the last few years. They really need to do something about trade chat, it turns off new or returning players with all of the hostility.

  19. #279
    Because humans and most animals on the planet have these things called "Emotions". These can be positive, such as Empathy, Care, Love, etc, but also negative, such as Hatred, Frustration, Anger, etc.

    When unexposed to any stimuli, none of these emotions surface, but when the individual is exposed to certain situations, events, as well as to other individuals, he/she will react accordingly and not always in ways that are acceptable by their peers.

    Note that EVERY person on the planet will express their emotions in ways that are considered unacceptable at some point or another.
    For example, you can have a person that is explosive and yells, accuses, and insults in an online environment but is a great person in their offline life, and likewise you can have a very mature person online who burns his own house one day. The line "But he was such a quiet and friendly guy" can often by heard during criminal investigations.

    The point is that people are people, and there is nothing you can do to change them, so grow a pair of balls (mentally) AND STOP BEING SUCH A PUSSY AND ASKING FOR SAFE SPACES.
    If someone hits you online, hit back. Be a man.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Bbrigham View Post
    So, this may be a devisive post, but I'm curious what the general wow community thinks about it. In the decade plus I have played wow, I have experienced good interactions...and some really really toxic ones. Here too. But I'm curious why you-you being the WoW player, or the forum goer- why do you think people are so toxic? I mean, it doesn't help. It doesn't add to the fun of others. Its not conducive to a healthy game or forum environment. So why then?? Why be toxic. Either on WoW or in forum.
    People are toxic because everyone is toxic to them, and everyone is encourages to act that way.

    In a game that encourages and rewards anonymity on a very intrinsic scale, no one is ever held accountable for their actions and are rewarded for being an ass (in that they can get what they want and run away without consequence). New players are harassed and treated like garbage for making mistakes instead of people helping them learn how to play the game. Likewise, players who are new to the game (or just bad) will often take critique very personally when it is given and not wanted, instead of responding maturely.

    Hell, even the game's mechanics encourage this. Why would anyone go out of their way to help players gear up and just... have fun, when they can instead invite someone who dramatically overgears something far beyond the point of them getting any benefit from the content? And players are encouraged to act this way because when you invite someone to your group, there is no benefit to adding someone you don't know since they are never going to join you again. If you go out of your way to teach them the game or help them gear up, there is no benefit for the player as they will never run into eachother again. And the pool of players who have already done so is large enough that they can just keep drawing from it without consequence.

    And the worse it gets, the more desensitized we are to it, and the more of a standard it becomes. If everyone treats everyone like shit, then you learn quickly to be defensive towards everything and react aggressively. You learn to just never say anything because you expect the worst of people, and speaking up makes you a target instead.

    It used to be that people acting like assholes got remembered by other players on their server, and eventually got to the point where everyone started blacklisting them and they could no longer get into groups. They realized that their actions had consequences, and either changed their attitude or changed their server. Or gained a new appreciation for solo content.

    I'm not saying these were better days in every way--I love the group finder and it's not the problem. Cross-realm content of any kind makes it so that you draw from a big enough crowd that anonymity rules absolutely. You can do whatever you want and you will never suffer from doing so. Either players will take advantage of this and build the community we've created from this mess, or you can choose not to and be left behind.

    So long as we play this game in a community where players are not encouraged in any way to act courteous towards other players, and where there are absolutely no consequences whatsoever in acting badly to other players, it is always going to be like this. In fact, it is going to continually get worse. It's pretty telling when you constantly see players react defensively to any comment about 'toxicity' in this game because they know it refers to them.

    In short, people act toxic because the community encourages them to. And in turn, they encourage others to act the same way. There are no systems in place to encourage players to act courteous in any way, and there are tons of systems in place that heavily encourage players to act 'toxic' indirectly. So it's not surprising how things have turned out.

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