Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Crutos View Post
    So I am making this post because I am interested in getting into classic wow, since I started wow in wrath and I am kinda interested in experiencing the game pre-wrath. However the more I look into Classic wow the more discouraged I get.
    I am one of those people who "play for fun", yeah *gasp* he said the no-no word.. I don't really care much at all about min-maxing, the "holy" meta and reducing a game that's meant to be fun to numbers. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
    I see a lot of "extreme" (from my PoV) min-maxing and general elitism going on around like "this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons" and "You have to be fully buffed with flasks, potions, world buffs etc etc for every single raid all the time" etc.
    I mean from my understanding none of this is actually necessary unless you're raiding like super hardcore to clear bosses in 20sec and I just don't really care to play like this and with people with this attitude. It is just so incredibly tedious and tiresome to me.
    So I guess what I am asking is; are there guilds and groups who play more casually and are more lenient in their approach to raids, "the meta", classes and how they do content? My impression is that everybody now plays with this mindset due to youtube content made primarily by private server elitists who gave the average player the impression that this how they have to play. I don't really care to spend a whole lot of time, money and effort on the game if it is going to be this way for the rest of classic and through TBC.
    Its the Nature of the beast.Sure you don't have to have all the buffs,but it does make it easier.Flasks and potions are only really necessary when a raid first comes out.Like AQ 40 for instance.Some of the fights require Nature resist,Arcane,and shadow potions.Look at MC or BWL you don't need to be fully buffed up to clear it as it is very easy with all the gear people have now.The thing about buffs in classic is that it allows you to clear it quickly because people just want to move on and get it over with,since it may be the 100th time they have been in there and just want it downed quick.

    What i think you don't seem to understand is that This is how it was Back in Vanilla and on into TBC Raiding wasn't something everyone did or could do.Its not this way because of youtubers lol Look at what making the game more accessible to people has done over the years,it has lost most of its player base.

    To answer your question of are there guilds that are more casual? If you are asking if there is a casual raiding guild that gets anything done with out buffs and being prepared,maybe?Besides buffs Food,flask,and potions are still expected by basically every raiding guild even today. IN my opinion i can't stand buffs though they are manageable.

    I can get all the buffs i need on my hunter in less than an hour.ZG,Ony,Rend,DMT,and songflower.My damage may never be as good in classic as say a warrior or a rogues but i get them to help my fellow raiders and do the best i can.I get my flask for progression fights if there are any and i have my food and potions for mana and what not ready every raid.Not because i am elitist but because i like to not be out of mana 30 seconds in to a fight.

    The thing about early on in the game for many years was that for say mana users mana was not some infinite thing you could just spam like it is today.As a hunter in classic if i don't get mana pots,Demonic runes,oils,and a flask for 2k extra mana i am gonna be worthless most of the fight.As i not only have to dps i have tranq shot some bosses and burst down targets on others.Healers have to have the mana to heal people.IF they go in to a raid with nothing in AQ at the moment and just say fuck it half the raid may die or wipe because the tanks died to no heals.If you only care about what you want and what is not best for the group then Classic isn't for you neither will TBC.

    What i don't get is when you call us elitists for playing the game a certain way simply because you play it a different way or want to play it a different way.If you want to play it with minimal effort go for it.The guild i am in we consider ourselves casual but we still play to win but we don't min max everything.Sure some people do but some don't and we get along just fine.Best of luck to you though.
    Last edited by Bigcountry11782; 2020-09-20 at 07:19 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigcountry11782 View Post
    Its the Nature of the beast.(...) Some of the fights require Nature resist,Arcane,and shadow potions. The thing about buffs in classic is that it allows you to clear it quickly because people just want to move on and get it over with,(...)
    that's exactly my impression though. From my understanding it is only "required" (by the guild not the game design) so you can clear a boss in 20sec and completely trivialize the content.
    sure if resistances are so necessary it is literally undoable without it of course I will do what I must, it is the going to ridiculous lengths to be overbuffed for the content just to trivialize it I am vexed by. I don't want to spend 150+ gold per flask buff and what not per week if it is not necessary, which it doesn't seem to be. It is just meaningless optimization when the content is completely doable without going to these lengths.

    What i think you don't seem to understand is that This is how it was Back in Vanilla and on into TBC Raiding wasn't something everyone did or could do.Its not this way because of youtubers lol Look at what making the game more accessible to people has done over the years,it has lost most of its player base.
    How can this possibly be the case when nobody had the slightest idea of how the game really worked back then? I don't mean this in a belittling or insulting way, but I think you're now just projecting in order to improve your argument. From all the classic/vanilla youtube content I looked into most underlined how private servers have changed the meta for classic compared to how people played in vanilla because now everything is known about the game.
    The best in slot debuffs are known, flasks are required, world buffs are literally just on farm which I doubt they were back then. etc

    Not because i am elitist but because i like to not be out of mana 30 seconds in to a fight.
    Why does this any of that matter when your group of 40 people all buffed out the ass is downing it in 30sec anyway?

    If you only care about what you want and what is not best for the group then Classic isn't for you neither will TBC.
    of course I care about being able to do the content and do my part.
    What I don't care about is optimizing it so that the tasks required before raid becomes unnecessary and tedious/expensive.
    I don't care about optimal raid comps excluding classes that may not be performing as great as others as long as taking them along is not going to be detrimental to the raid it is just less efficient.

    And I use the word "optimal" here because of course the content is doable without optimizing every tiny detail.

    What i don't get is when you call us elitists for playing the game a certain way simply because you play it a different way or want to play it a different way.
    think I've explained very well what I mean by "elitism". It is optimizing everything in the game to an extreme until the game has become "by the numbers" tiresome and a 'do it this way or gtfo' mentality.
    It is the "this class is underperforming by 2% so reroll" mentality.
    I don't really care about people who want to do that as long as they do it for themselves first and foremost.
    it is when their requirements are entirely unnecessary but are still imposed on everyone they play with.

  3. #43
    Find a guild with like-minded people.

    There's no other way.

  4. #44
    As long as you dont expect raids to be cleared in record times, you should find plenty of guilds with similiar mindsets who still clear the content in one raid night.

    You just have to look for a while. Its like dating. The first person you hear from im tradechat will probably not be the love of your life.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  5. #45
    Every raid can easily be cleared in less than an hour except for AQ40 which takes all of two anna bit. Consumables n other crap isn't going to shave a big difference of time off that. Anyone insisting that people use consumables has a giant stick in their ass.

    As ALWAYS the biggest time waste will be "people standing around waiting for someone who went AFK" and shit like that. Avoid a guild with that and you'll be golden.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    We can't pass the Magna Carta! That's socialism!

  6. #46
    You have to understand that most of the people playing classic are those who missed the train 15 years ago and are trying super hard to compensate.

    you won't really find "chill" and "successful" in the same guild, but if you just want to do wtf ever you want to do, just ignore people and do just that.

  7. #47
    I am Murloc! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Pebbleton Family Castle.
    Posts
    5,701
    In my opinion, you are using the wrong approach to the game. Or at the very least, an approach that will take you nowhere.

    What does it mean to play the game for fun? Playing sub-optimally? Taking underperforming talents? Equipping mismatched armor types because they look cooler? Not using consumables for raiding since farming for them is boring? Not showing up for raid nights because you don't feel like it on that evening?

    Imagine this. I show up on my BiS geared hunter for raid with flasks, talents, buffs. Besides me is a warrior tank in cloth because robes look cool, with dps talents, food buffs from level 15 because they have it leftover in their bags, and no idea that they have a taunt ability.
    Would you play with a person like that, when you could just find a dude that wishes to pull their weight and forget about it? I wouldn't. Of course this is an extreme scenario and I am sure you meant something less crazy by "playing for fun", but my point is, exactly why would other people excuse you from putting the effort when they do everything they can to clear the content?

    It's not fun to wipe on a boss on 1% because a guy doesn't want to pop potions or has no flask throughout the encounter. It's not fun to open the damage gauge and seeing a guy with half the dps of the second to last guy.

    All in all, your idea of fun risks making the experience unfunny for everyone else involved. Even if you were the best player around, I would still side-eye you if you consistently forgot to apply the most basic buffs.

    If you want to be at least semi-competitive in a MMO/multiplayer scenario, put in the effort like everyone else around. Buffs are needed when they mean the difference between a kill or a wipe for lower-end guilds. Elitist means considering oneself so skilled at the game that other humans cannot compare. Wanting to progress content is all but elitist and it feels to me like you are trying to make up excuses to not improve your situation. To which I ask again, why should others meet the minimum requirements, but you shouldn't?

    Also I have no idea about the Youtube elitist content you mentioned. The only WoW videos I have ever seen are the short and fun machinima from the old days.

  8. #48
    So let me get this straight:

    You want to do actual group content that requires a certain level of "elitism". By that I mean the willingness to actually perform average-ly or slightly above average.
    But at the same time you don't care about your performance at all and basically want to be carried.

    Let's face it, Classic is an imbalanced mess. The fact that you can actually be useless means that there is a certain expectation of players.

    Here's the thing most people don't understand who "just want to play for fun with a useless build":
    You say that no players are above anyone else and you are all equal so you should be allowed to play something useless for fun as that's your choice.
    BUT if all players are to be treated equal and you enter into grouped content you are all supposed to work towards the common goal, therefore you have equal amounts of responsibility to not be a liability in your team as well. That goes for everyone.

    So no, unless your casual fun class is a warrior or something actually meta then you don't have to worry. You will perform average even when playing sub optimally.
    If your casual fun class is something literally useless then I would just suggest not playing Classic but actual WoW. Even the bottom performing specs are not useless at least so you can actually enter grouped content.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    In my opinion, you are using the wrong approach to the game. Or at the very least, an approach that will take you nowhere.

    What does it mean to play the game for fun? Playing sub-optimally? Taking underperforming talents? Equipping mismatched armor types because they look cooler? Not using consumables for raiding since farming for them is boring? Not showing up for raid nights because you don't feel like it on that evening?
    Besides me is a warrior tank in cloth because robes look cool, with dps talents, food buffs from level 15 because they have it leftover in their bags, and no idea that they have a taunt ability.
    Would you play with a person like that, when you could just find a dude that wishes to pull their weight and forget about it? I wouldn't. Of course this is an extreme scenario and I am sure you meant something less crazy by "playing for fun", but my point is, exactly why would other people excuse you from putting the effort when they do everything they can to clear the content?
    yeah ofc I don't mean cosplaying in whatever armor I think looks cool. Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with playing the spec you want to play as long as they play well, but of course taking all the bad talents like a rogue taking Dagger specialization AND mace specialization but only uses swords on purpose to meme isn't what I meant.

    I am pretty sure that I in my post specified that I was hoping the game would have guilds who were more lenient in their approach to content like I am, not "HEY GUISE I wanna raid in an epic-pro super hardcore guild but just afk /follow the raid leader why can't I? (((("

    To which I ask again, why should others meet the minimum requirements, but you shouldn't?.
    From what I heard people were clearing MC with characters at level 56-58.
    So how is the "minimum requirement"; stacking every world buff possible, every flask/potion, and having the most optimal possible raid comp with everyone playing the most optimal spec even if the difference is minor when you can obviously defeat the content without it.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Crutos View Post
    think I've explained very well what I mean by "elitism". It is optimizing everything in the game to an extreme until the game has become "by the numbers" tiresome and a 'do it this way or gtfo' mentality.
    It is the "this class is underperforming by 2% so reroll" mentality.
    I don't really care about people who want to do that as long as they do it for themselves first and foremost.
    It just sounds like you have a fundamental misunderstanding on what you're talking about, people aren't worldbuffing to trivialize a fight, people are doing these things because doing a lot of damage, competing with yourself and your guildies is way more fun and really healthy for a guild than not doing so.

    Nor is it a high ask from your members to pick up literally free buffs that give you a 30-40% damage increase before a raid. Or a big ask to spend 1hr a week getting some gold for your elixirs, it's been standard to every guild ever since people discovered it was a thing.

    There is a lot more that goes into a guild than just clearing a raid, for example do you know how damaging it is to a guild to have a bad raid clear time to its ability to recruit members? Or how unappealing you are to pug groups, in joining a guild like the one you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crutos View Post
    that's exactly my impression though. From my understanding it is only "required" (by the guild not the game design) so you can clear a boss in 20sec and completely trivialize the content. sure if resistances are so necessary it is literally undoable without it of course I will do what I must, it is the going to ridiculous lengths to be overbuffed for the content just to trivialize it I am vexed by.

    What I don't care about is optimizing it so that the tasks required before raid becomes unnecessary and tedious/expensive.
    I don't care about optimal raid comps excluding classes that may not be performing as great as others as long as taking them along is not going to be detrimental to the raid it is just less efficient.

    And I use the word "optimal" here because of course the content is doable without optimizing every tiny detail.
    It's funny, the kind of people who keep saying that classic is really easy, insisting that they aren't actually just being dead weight by rolling a protection/retribution paladin, BM/SV hunter, arms warrior and so forth are the people who routinely take multiple nights to clear really easy content and usually can't clear the entire raid, like skipping Viscidus and having multiple wipes.

    It's really telling to me, because it indicates what kind of mentality a guild has, when they permit this kind of player in and how their overall ability is hampered by this. Probably because every good player in the guild just jumps ship ASAP.

    Ultimately, it's never ever been "what is necessary to kill a boss" in any iteration of WoW, it's always been asking your members to play THEIR best, not getting wbuffs is such a lazy way of playing a community driven thing like raiding, it's an insult to your guildies.
    Last edited by WaltherLeopold; 2020-09-20 at 11:36 AM.

  11. #51
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,367
    Lots of stupid and unnecessary min-maxing going on in MMOs.
    If you stick to the proper builds (sorry it's a fact that these exist, so do crap builds. Don't gimp your char deliberately and go on about "muh freedom" expecting the community to drag you through content) and put in a modicum of effort, you can avoid the extreme end of min-max and still put out a respectable performance.

    Avoid players that make the extreme end mandatory.
    In my decade of experience, these are typically bad players trying to compensate their inability via brute force (world first/bleeding edge progression crews excluded).

  12. #52
    I am Murloc! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Pebbleton Family Castle.
    Posts
    5,701
    Quote Originally Posted by Crutos View Post
    yeah ofc I don't mean cosplaying in whatever armor I think looks cool. Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with playing the spec you want to play as long as they play well, but of course taking all the bad talents like a rogue taking Dagger specialization AND mace specialization but only uses swords on purpose to meme isn't what I meant.

    I am pretty sure that I in my post specified that I was hoping the game would have guilds who were more lenient in their approach to content like I am, not "HEY GUISE I wanna raid in an epic-pro super hardcore guild but just afk /follow the raid leader why can't I? (((("



    From what I heard people were clearing MC with characters at level 56-58.
    So how is the "minimum requirement"; stacking every world buff possible, every flask/potion, and having the most optimal possible raid comp with everyone playing the most optimal spec even if the difference is minor when you can obviously defeat the content without it.
    Lenient guilds don't get the content done. I was in a lenient guild back in WotLK and in the middle of the last patch we had trouble killing Marrowgar on normal. I have since joined a huge amount of guilds due to realm changes and I can 100% confirm that a guild is either lenient, or efficient.

    You have to decide between these two kind of guilds. I would say that efficient guilds are a better time investment if you want to get things done.

    Also, people that were clearing MC at level 56-58 had researched their class thoroughly beforehand and had every possible buff. The world first Ragnaros kill on Classic had a few people not even at 60 and they planned it for months. Or do you think that you can just waltz in at level 56 and oneshot the content? I had groups full of level 60s in rare/epic gear that died to Garr and Gehennas.

    Those level 56-58 players had every intention to fill the level gap with good skills, careful talents and huge buffs. If anything, they are a glaring example as to why you should do your best to be the strongest version of you when you have a raid planned.

    Bottom line is, when pushing content, you need to do everything in your power to perform well. This is true in retail and in Classic. A buff could mean the difference between dying and barely surviving+getting back to full health.

  13. #53
    I agree with the startpost. I played classic as a healer and we completely destroyed every raid that i had to play "Whack a-mole" to even have time to land a heal because we healers had so little to do. BUT! The raidleaders forced us to buy flasks and buffs and shit even though we never got oom or hardly had anything to do. Raidlogs where checked after every raid to see performance and the loot got to those who had made the most efford. We had a loot council. Playing classic again was a blast and leveleing was the most fun i have had in a game for many years but the raiding killed my spirit just because of the elitism.

  14. #54
    I play and run a guild with the mindset listed above. I would completely loose all interest in playing if we had to take a more "relaxed" approach. There is no real answer to this question, as it all comes down to preference. Some people enjoy the min maxing aspects, other just want to chill out. And both approaches are completely valid.

  15. #55
    OP, there are definately guilds you don't need world buffs, best enchants, consumables etc. for raids. I'm in a decent guild that has cleared all content and I join their alt runs for MC/BWL/AQ20 and it is no issue at all not having enchants buffs. Also worth considering that if you aren't a major raider the majority of the game is levelling, quests or instances and you can do these entirely at your own pace and in your own manner. Obviously if you want to raid seriously and do progress raiding, you would be expected to make the extra effort, but in that case you would want to get the best buffs you can anyway.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    Sounds like how people used to play in vanilla. In Wrath we did Ulduar without looking at other strategies, we would just run in and do attempts live, those were the golden years.. You literally won't get that back.
    I'd love to see your faces when you first tried the big red button.

    We might not get that back, but on our Classic server there actually is a guild that dedicated themselves to not look up tactics, and who mainly recruited players who weren't around in Vanilla as an attempt to get that experience for the first time.

  17. #57
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    The Other Side of Azeroth
    Posts
    8,669
    The problem with all of the above comments is that everyone has a different definition of hardcore, casual, lenient, etc.

    You can find a spot in a guild that clears content in good time if you a) play decently, b) spec to get the most out of your class and role*, c) do the basics - get stuff enchanted, get good pre-raid gear after you hit 60 (and then go to the early raids to gear further), get the easy buffs and d) don't expect to be carried, i.e. ding 60 and expect to get into AQ40 right off.

    On the last point - we had a mage ding 60 the other day. Had a couple of open spots for a a ZG run for idols (so just killing Jindo and Mandokir)... he got a couple of tokens and a ring. Had open slots for an AQ20 which we can clear with under 20 anyway... he got Staff Of the Ruins.

    Were we carrying him? Yeah, honestly. But he didnt ASK or expect to to go to those, we had spots and would rather take someone than have the spot unfilled. In short, some of what goes on is about a player's attitude.

    At the end of the day, though, yeah raids want to kill bosses. They want to do so efficiently. So there will be some standards, that's a given. If someone is looking for a raid that has no standard and will go in with just anyone and any comp, that's one thing. If someone is just looking for what I outline above, that's quite different. And different from both of those are raids who really do enforce extreme min-maxing and high levels of performance or else. As a player, you need to choose the level that's comfortable for you.

    * by "b) spec to get the most out of your class and role" I don't mean play the optimal class, but if you play boomkin, take the time to research the best raid spec for it and do that vs just making things up.
    Last edited by clevin; 2020-09-20 at 07:13 PM.

  18. #58
    I'm sure there are plenty of guilds that don't care if you're fully buffed. Most people will be happy that you show up and don't die during every encounter, and it's not like you can really go wrong with doing dps.

    It will be difficult to find a spot as a spec that is literally balanced to be un-viable, you can't expect a raid spot if you're going to be doing half the damage of everyone else; That's just how classic is unfortunately.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Crutos View Post
    So I am making this post because I am interested in getting into classic wow, since I started wow in wrath and I am kinda interested in experiencing the game pre-wrath. However the more I look into Classic wow the more discouraged I get.
    I am one of those people who "play for fun", yeah *gasp* he said the no-no word.. I don't really care much at all about min-maxing, the "holy" meta and reducing a game that's meant to be fun to numbers. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
    I see a lot of "extreme" (from my PoV) min-maxing and general elitism going on around like "this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons" and "You have to be fully buffed with flasks, potions, world buffs etc etc for every single raid all the time" etc.
    I mean from my understanding none of this is actually necessary unless you're raiding like super hardcore to clear bosses in 20sec and I just don't really care to play like this and with people with this attitude. It is just so incredibly tedious and tiresome to me.
    So I guess what I am asking is; are there guilds and groups who play more casually and are more lenient in their approach to raids, "the meta", classes and how they do content? My impression is that everybody now plays with this mindset due to youtube content made primarily by private server elitists who gave the average player the impression that this how they have to play. I don't really care to spend a whole lot of time, money and effort on the game if it is going to be this way for the rest of classic and through TBC.
    if you havent tried classic yet, how do you know what the players and community are like? forums? gimme a break. forums are toxic no matter where you go.
    go actually try the game and decide for yourself.
    my guild doesnt focus on min/max and very few of the guilds on my server tend to. im on a rp-pve server, where players tend to focus on fun before prog.
    try it.
    yes, there are retail conditioned players in classic, but what you are talking about i havent dealt with since i left retail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I'm sure there are plenty of guilds that don't care if you're fully buffed. Most people will be happy that you show up and don't die during every encounter, and it's not like you can really go wrong with doing dps.

    It will be difficult to find a spot as a spec that is literally balanced to be un-viable, you can't expect a raid spot if you're going to be doing half the damage of everyone else; That's just how classic is unfortunately.
    ya, this. no one wants to have to work harder to carry the guy stacking int as a warrior. there is a point where if you are borderline useless in content, no one is going to want to play with you. but that is ALL multiplayer games. carry your weight or go elsewhere.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Crutos View Post
    -snip-


    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Let's face it, Classic is an imbalanced mess. The fact that you can actually be useless means that there is a certain expectation of players.
    This is a very understated point. Sadly, Crutos (OP), the game has long since been "solved." I don't play classic, but it doesn't take a massive extrapolation of logic to empathize with the idea that, yeah, you can't pretend that people with group content goals can't... know the "right answer," and thus know the "wrong answers." If I were to ever play classic, I'd set my goals at "level and be a tourist." Because I'm mega casual and yeah, prefer concept over meta. I'm self aware enough that, if I choose to enter into a clique like a guild (and contrary to popular belief, that's not a dirty word, just the truth), yeah, there is a sense of "no this isn't 15 years ago, the game is solved, please accept that on other people's time."

    That's the major, major point that so many people don't get about how well WoW has aged. Modern WoW has a very strong "me game," while still having a strong "We game." Classic didn't have that. It wasn't everquest (indeed WoW was the casual alternative to everquest) but by the time you get to anything at the level cap, there was defintiely a sense of "you're on other people's time," and with modern expectations of time efficiency applied to a classic game, that has to be felt even more keenly.

    So yeah, my recommendation to you echoes a lot of other people here: Fish for a guild that will be mega chill, perhaps too mega chill to progress quickly, OR... lower your expectations to classic's not-nonexistant "me game," abandoning the "we game." That's how I played classic, TBC and WOTLK until LFD, and I was fine.
    Last edited by Omedon; 2020-09-20 at 07:36 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •