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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    No, they are not.
    What makes you say that?

  2. #62
    They should have just make these covenant abilities a talent row for max levels. But I quess it would be too convinient for players.

  3. #63
    But did you play it though?

  4. #64
    What a fresh hot take that hasn't been posted five million eight hundred and ninety-five times already.

    Any particular reason why you felt this needed a whole new thread rather than just a foot note in the multitude of other threads about this exact same subject?

  5. #65
    It was never going to be what you guys imagined. It frankly can't be in a themepark MMO like WoW. Not to mention that stuff like the soulbinds were failures from the get-go, simply because they just fill this expansion's generic borrowed power role, like half the azerite traits or 95% of the essence system. This is also not down to some minority complaining, it's simply the half-assed design that Blizzard choses time and time again. To make it worthwhile it should have been this expansion's artefact weapon, but that would have actually required them to put in the effort they did back in legion when they made those (which could have also been balanced easily enough).

    And again the idea of having covenants for story etc is no issue what so ever. Trying to awkwardly duct-taping player power to them was the mistake. At least if Blizzard wants to keep all the competitive gameplay loops alive (which requires a somewhat reasonable performance delta between specs), which frankly are one of the main selling points of WoW over other games.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  6. #66
    Legendary! TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Make everything identical and pointless. Got it.
    It has a point, to not make you feel like you have to choose between being great in X content and shit in Y content. You can optimize for both, and since they would be untied from the RPG elements your RPG choices could be made entirely based upon how you feel about the Covenants and their philosophies rather than having to weigh how much you care about RPG against how much you care about player power.

    The current system is designed to fuck over everyone to some degree, the greater variety of interests you have in the game the worse the Covenant system is for you. The only people it caters well to are those who exclusively enjoy only one type of content, or people who ignore most/all of the end-game content in favor of playing for the story.

    The more varied your interests, the more the Covenant system penalizes you.
    Last edited by TEHPALLYTANK; 2020-09-21 at 03:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    No, they are not.
    Really depends on how you define a casual wow player. Are casuals only LFR heroes? are you still a casual player if you regularly raid heroics and maybe the first few bosses in mythic?

    I didn't play BFA but i did raid Mythics in Legion. We weren't a top guild in the least bit. We usually completed the heroic raid pretty quickly and were usually able to beat mythic before a new major content patch, but I never considered myself a hardcore player and we didn't consider our guild to be hardcore either. I did just enough outside of raid logging to stay relevant but I also made sure to keep up with my class discord and knew what worked and what didn't to maximize my dps with what i had available. Does that make me not a casual?

    becasue overall i would say i am a pretty casual player but maybe not as casual as others. maybe i'm somewhere in bewteen.

  8. #68
    I am of the mind that conduit item level should be the big concern.

    When 9.1 (and onward) comes out, do you want to grind the same conduits for a higher item level? I don't. That seems like Azerite Gear 2.0 to me. (Pardon me if that situation has changed, I haven't played beta in the past 5 days or so)

    As far as covenant choice goes? In no way do I think they are bad and "gimp" anyone in any way unless you're the tip top bleeding edge raider type. But then again, that's a way different mindset than I have as a player.

  9. #69
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    After having looked more at the cov system, and seen people use it, I think the system offers zero meaningful character customization. besides the active ability, there is almost no difference between every conduit inside of the weak soulbind system. and the covs aren't even meaningful choices, they are simply "Do I gimp myself in M+ to excel in raids?". What's funny is, a system that has been so adamantly defended by casuals, actually harms casuals the most because they will be the ones with less effective characters in 2/3 game modes at any given time while top players will having 3 characters per class taking the best Cov for every game mode. The system is pointless

    Why do covs even exist?
    Several reason why these system exits:

    -When they don't exist, people can complain that everything is boring and it needs new systems
    -When they do exist, people can even complain more like in the following examples:
    -If they are a meaningful choice, people can then complain how another covenant is better in a certain situation and thus they are screwed by their choice sometimes (proof? this forum since alpha)
    -If they are not a meaningful choice, it allows people like you to make a topic to complain about
    -It gets people to debate on forums and that is better than silence and indifference
    Last edited by det; 2020-09-21 at 04:31 PM.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    That was a buzz word. If you fell for it, that’s on you.
    I've fallen for nothing. If I purchase SL it will be after 9.1
    SL will release in an awful state according to my friend with Beta. Apparently Covenants Conduits and Legendary items are a mess of imbalance (not talking numbers but just balance wise) if I buy at all it will be 9.1.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Hadriker View Post
    Really depends on how you define a casual wow player. Are casuals only LFR heroes? are you still a casual player if you regularly raid heroics and maybe the first few bosses in mythic?

    I didn't play BFA but i did raid Mythics in Legion. We weren't a top guild in the least bit. We usually completed the heroic raid pretty quickly and were usually able to beat mythic before a new major content patch, but I never considered myself a hardcore player and we didn't consider our guild to be hardcore either. I did just enough outside of raid logging to stay relevant but I also made sure to keep up with my class discord and knew what worked and what didn't to maximize my dps with what i had available. Does that make me not a casual?

    becasue overall i would say i am a pretty casual player but maybe not as casual as others. maybe i'm somewhere in bewteen.
    Casual means that you take the game less seriously. Everything you described is not casual.

    Casual is like "middle class". Everyone thinks they belong to that group, but for someone doing the most extreme fringe difficult content in the game to claim that they are casual is crazy. It's like a millionaire claiming they are middle class. It's absurd on its face.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    I've fallen for nothing. If I purchase SL it will be after 9.1
    SL will release in an awful state according to my friend with Beta. Apparently Covenants Conduits and Legendary items are a mess of imbalance (not talking numbers but just balance wise) if I buy at all it will be 9.1.
    people who are holding their breath for blizzard to just make everything swappable are probably going to be holding their breath for a long time.

    i wouldnt be surprised if they never changed it.

    so, figuire out if you want to play or not.

  13. #73
    This is a new and interesting topic and really needed yet another thread.
    Scheduled weekly maintenance caught me by surprise.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    It has a point, to not make you feel like you have to choose between being great in X content and shit in Y content. You can optimize for both, and since they would be untied from the RPG elements your RPG choices could be made entirely based upon how you feel about the Covenants and their philosophies rather than having to weigh how much you care about RPG against how much you care about player power.
    Which is the entire point of the system, so again, it would render it pointless.

    What's it with people and refusing to make a choice?

  15. #75
    Legendary! TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Which is the entire point of the system, so again, it would render it pointless.

    What's it with people and refusing to make a choice?
    It is a trolley dilemma for some people, you're screwed no matter which option you pick.

    What you're having to sacrifice in this scenario is content and fun, and you're forced to choose between bad options. It is a no-win scenario for some people, and that is precisely why some people hate it. No-win scenarios are shitty enough IRL, I sure as hell don't want to have them added to a game I'd like to play.

    Now obviously this isn't why everyone hates it, but it is a major factor in why I hate it. I have no doubt that I'm not alone in my perspective and reasons for hating the current iteration of Covenants.
    Last edited by TEHPALLYTANK; 2020-09-22 at 02:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    After having looked more at the cov system, and seen people use it, I think the system offers zero meaningful character customization. besides the active ability, there is almost no difference between every conduit inside of the weak soulbind system. and the covs aren't even meaningful choices, they are simply "Do I gimp myself in M+ to excel in raids?". What's funny is, a system that has been so adamantly defended by casuals, actually harms casuals the most because they will be the ones with less effective characters in 2/3 game modes at any given time while top players will having 3 characters per class taking the best Cov for every game mode. The system is pointless

    Why do covs even exist?
    To give forum posters something to complain about?

    Who am I kidding, forum posters always find something to complain about.

    Ultimately though, this just reads like the same complaint in many other threads with a mild spin to sound original. Meh.

    Also, the level of hyperbole you need to apply for your stance to be accurate is... intense.

  17. #77
    Covenants don't hurt casuals it hurts low skilled players who are currently over playing their skill level by using op shit.

    And covenants help tell a story.

  18. #78
    They can't simultaneously be pointless and also something everyone is fighting over.

    They are pointless - they are as a matter of fact (channelling Teal'c) pointful.

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  19. #79
    The Patient october breeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    *backs away to a safe distance outside of immediately lunging reach*

    I think you might need to, depending on where you live, either go outside and get some air, or stay inside more to avoid breathing whatever bad shit is in your air.
    You looking for a rationalization here?
    I can't think of any tbh!

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by october breeze View Post
    You looking for a rationalization here?
    I can't think of any tbh!
    A rationalization for you imagining a game designer having some kind of demented epiphany while in his bathtub followed by some... ideology you believe he adhered to which uses some words that are from english and a few you've made up, with some profanity sprinkled in, to explain his line of thought in the most insulting way possible? That's beyond my level of vocabulary. Seriously. If the air is fine go out and get some, if there's fires nearby get inside.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

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