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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    stuff
    It is very much a problem when you have a two faction game and only one faction can reliably complete content. You've managed to completely dodge the reasons people go Horde, insisting that Alliance just needs to git gud. The reasons have been laid out in this thread in multiple posts. Serious players went Horde because they had and have numerical and other advantages in completing content. That began a snowball effect, with more and more guilds transferring over years because there were far more candidates for recruitment on Horde.

    You as a Horde player do benefit from having a more skilled playerbase, in that you are far more able to get good groups for any content you care to do. Trying to claim otherwise is either ignorant or dishonest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Delaryn doesn't end up betraying Sylvanas by the end of the expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    You as a Horde player do benefit from having a more skilled playerbase, in that you are far more able to get good groups for any content you care to do. Trying to claim otherwise is either ignorant or dishonest.
    Except world PvP in NA. The only Horde groups doing any kind of large scale PvP are raids full of 120's who gank lowbies in Goldshire and then run away when confronted by any reasonable opposition. Horde can have whatever "glories' they think they have, but RUIN has been destroying them for months out in world PvP and Nazjatar.

  3. #63
    Skill in world pvp

    But anyway, this problem is actually the worst in NA but it appears to be spreading in the EU as well.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    Except world PvP in NA. The only Horde groups doing any kind of large scale PvP are raids full of 120's who gank lowbies in Goldshire and then run away when confronted by any reasonable opposition. Horde can have whatever "glories' they think they have, but RUIN has been destroying them for months out in world PvP and Nazjatar.
    Having PvP mode enabled is a defacto as Horde. So the odds that you will find a good PvP'er to fight against as an Alliance is slim. And as Alliance you really only turn WM on for WQ rewards and if you can play.

  5. #65
    And nobody saw the BE explosion with Mythic+ in LEGION?

    Big pulls, AoE interrupt when the game exploded with mythic+ participation and blizzard watching the allready horde shifted PVE participation explode.

    Honestly the big migration was in LEGION and Blizzard not only did nothing in LEGION but they just let it continue in BFA.

    Maybe a few more horse mounts in SL will fix it.
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    No, they don't. It's not fucking roleplayers that are transferring, this is about endgame. And it's not only about top 100 either, guilds that aren't even in top 1500 are leaving for horde.
    Wannabe hardcores have always copied what the true elites done in some misguided belief that it will make them better. Getting a better racial won't help you get cutting edge when you're 2/12, but it might help Method squeeze out another 1%.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Wannabe hardcores have always copied what the true elites done in some misguided belief that it will make them better. Getting a better racial won't help you get cutting edge when you're 2/12, but it might help Method squeeze out another 1%.
    No. They are leaving for horde because there is no one to recruit on alliance. It has nothing to do with racials.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    That actually sounds really metal, really cool... This game needs some darkness. Too nice, too chipper. This is the world of WARcraft, not the world of mercycraft.
    You know War generally involves attacking those who wage war with you, not just killing some innocents.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    You know War generally involves attacking those who wage war with you, not just killing some innocents.
    So innocent, so naive. I wish i could have such a 'Disney' view of what modern warfare is, or for that matter, any war.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    No. They are leaving for horde because there is no one to recruit on alliance. It has nothing to do with racials.
    I was talking about before it got this bad. As has been said in this thread, Alliance racials were better in vanilla and BC. Then in Wrath they buffed Horde racials. All the wannabes went Horde hoping the minor improvements would make them better, and it snowballed.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  11. #71
    Stood in the Fire Krimzin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Sorry, faction merge is not possible after SL anymore. They made peace and therefore cross faction play impossible.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No, this is actually not correct. The story of BfA made clear that the horde can not be liberated, because they are inherently evil in nature (with the exception of some individuals). If you argue with the story, then peace (and therefore faction merge) was either possible AFTER Legion and BEFORE BfA or after we get a massive time skip (and I mean multiple thousand of years).
    There is still a core Horde faction, led by Sylvanas, and a core Alliance faction, led by Tyrande.
    The faction lines will be blurred. Horde will be able to build faction in Alliance areas and same for Alliance in Horde areas.
    Players will be able to join cross faction guilds.
    You can all ready merc out for the opposing faction, this just goes a step farther.
    We may see it before the end of SL.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    This actually makes sense as a reason for Blizzard not addressing the issue. Why bother when it'll solve itself in 2 years, just sit back and rake in the faction change money in the meantime.
    Even when cross faction guilds are available, people will still pay for Faction Change, even more so because maybe they always wanted to be an Orc but their guild was Alliance.. Its gonna happen, wait and see.
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    It is very much a problem when you have a two faction game and only one faction can reliably complete content. You've managed to completely dodge the reasons people go Horde, insisting that Alliance just needs to git gud. The reasons have been laid out in this thread in multiple posts. Serious players went Horde because they had and have numerical and other advantages in completing content. That began a snowball effect, with more and more guilds transferring over years because there were far more candidates for recruitment on Horde.

    You as a Horde player do benefit from having a more skilled playerbase, in that you are far more able to get good groups for any content you care to do. Trying to claim otherwise is either ignorant or dishonest.
    You still don't get it.

    I have never claimed that Horde didn't have more high end players. What I keep saying is that it DOES. NOT. MATTER.

    Competition does not CARE whether you are red or blue.
    Real competitors don't care what they are, that's why they are horde.

    Being a high end player and doing that type of content is important TO THEM.
    Casuals are not impacted the slightest, and by casuals I mean everyone under the 1%.

    You keep saying that "but I have a more skilled playerbase to play with", no I don't.
    Do you honestly think that I have ever even been in a group with a high end player? I'm casually doing +20 keys right now and I have never met one.
    IT DOES NOT MATTER what color is in majority at the top 1%.

    The single only reason it matters TO YOU is beacuse you would feel better if it was the other way around.

    But hey, we can keep going back and forth, I can keep saying it doesn't matter and you will just keep saying "but there is more horde" like that is a counter argument when it isn't.
    Let's see your proposed solution.

    Should we give away free HC or Mythic gear for Alliance like they did in 8.2? That's fair.
    Should we randomly reroll top-end guilds into Alliance? That's fair.
    Should we buff Alliance racials to the point where they are literally broken so they transfer themselves? That's fair. And by the way, we have yet to have a world first with the last 2 alliad races and I personally think Mechagnome racials are beyond OP and the world first for 9.0 should be a raid full of Mechagnomes.

    You don't provide solutions to your apparent "issue". Because it's a non-issue. Nobody is impacted but those who choose to participate. And at that level what matters to you is being top 100 or top 10 or WF, not being blue or red. That is the facts.

  13. #73
    I was originally on a server that was around 40/60 in the other factions favor. I havnt looked recently, but last i looked it was closer to 10/90. There was ONE raiding guild left on my faction, who raided normal with a few heroic bosses. We left before that happened, but stayed on the same faction and actually transferred realms instead. Looking back, i wish we had gone horde instead, although that would have made us part of the problem. Even now, on a high pop realm with alliance bias, normal and heroic is dead, its M+ or Mythic raiding, with those wanting to do normal / heroic just pugging everything.

    Considering our intention to step back from raiding and just be casual heroic raiding guild, i have some pretty serious concerns over recruiting and retaining a stable heroic roster. Can anyone confirm if this is the case on horde as well? Are there many / any dedicated heroic raid teams? Or even normal for arguments sake?

  14. #74
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Factions are stupid and split up the playerbase, so people move to the better one where the majority of (good) players are.

    Solution: Abolish factions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post

    Not possible after BfA anymore unfortunately
    I would say "Not possible ever since WC1 Orcs vs Humans". I guess there is a faction divide in SWotoR between Rebels and Empire? It is so ingrained into the game. I would call it part of the core identity of both games that there are opposing factions. In fact I heard people claim that not being able to chose Mordor and Orcs, Goblins, Nazgul or whatnot really hurt the game (years back..maybe even that changed)

    Obviously I cannot be sure, but removing factions might be causing the biggest shitstorm ever. Then again...it might be something Blizzard saves for a last Hail Mary attempt at getting subs back when the game is really about to hit rock bottom.

  15. #75
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Casuals are not impacted the slightest, and by casuals I mean everyone under the 1%.

    You keep saying that "but I have a more skilled playerbase to play with", no I don't.
    Do you honestly think that I have ever even been in a group with a high end player? I'm casually doing +20 keys right now and I have never met one.
    IT DOES NOT MATTER what color is in majority at the top 1%.
    This simply isn't true. For example: I've been playing hundreds of BGs this expansion and horde players outgear alliance players in almost every BG. Why? That's up to speculation. You could say that horde players generally are more serious or better players and clear more difficult content. Or you could say that since Horde population is so much higher than alliance, horde players have a much easier time finding groups to clear said content. Whatever it is, horde has the advantage. And this type of trend will be present in other content as well, even though it might not be as obvious at first sight.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Beatman View Post
    This simply isn't true. For example: I've been playing hundreds of BGs this expansion and horde players outgear alliance players in almost every BG. Why? That's up to speculation. You could say that horde players generally are more serious or better players and clear more difficult content. Or you could say that since Horde population is so much higher than alliance, horde players have a much easier time finding groups to clear said content. Whatever it is, horde has the advantage. And this type of trend will be present in other content as well, even though it might not be as obvious at first sight.
    Firstly, the overall population between the factions in all regions is as close to 50-50 as it can get.
    The myth that there are more Horde players have been debunked numerous times.

    Secondly, who the fuck cares about BG's? Especially random BG's?
    We were talking about THE HIGHEST of the highest players, top 100 mythic raider guilds.

    It's saying that "dayum, these high end players keep ruining my random arena skirmishes"... There are literally no correlation there.
    You can do rated BG's/arenas and you will most likely face people with the same rating, I can guarantee you that.

    IDK what your BG example had to do with the topic at all.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    And nobody saw the BE explosion with Mythic+ in LEGION?

    Big pulls, AoE interrupt when the game exploded with mythic+ participation and blizzard watching the allready horde shifted PVE participation explode.

    Honestly the big migration was in LEGION and Blizzard not only did nothing in LEGION but they just let it continue in BFA.

    Maybe a few more horse mounts in SL will fix it.
    By this reasoning shouldn't everyone be Alliance now for the shadowmeld skips.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Exodeus View Post
    By this reasoning shouldn't everyone be Alliance now for the shadowmeld skips.
    Also, we're gonna have the first world first race with Mechagnomes available.

    I don't think we will see a massive number or people change to Mechagnomes sadly, but I promise you a full Mechagnome raid would be the most optimal setup with those racials.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I think it is much more simple than this.

    People prefer horde, aesthetically and story-wise.

    The alliance is catering to a boy king when the player is a hero who has literally helped kill gods. The Alliance human racials are still some of the best in the game and always have been.

    10% haste or 10% attack power for 10 seconds, isn't THAT good.

    The Horde side at least has leaders that turn into bosses that take a raid to kill.

    The story is also more enjoyable for all. I played through BFA, Legion, WoD, and MoP on both sides at least once. Every time, I enjoyed the hordes story more.
    Played through the Horde story for the first time with BFA and the Horde zones were terrible. I had to double check when I was questing in Voldun. Felt worse than playing Alliance.

    The rest of the zones were really bad. The only cool part was about Bowsamdi or however you spell it. Everything else was a mess.

    At least Kul Tiras was amazing. Drustvar was the best questing experience in WoW. Great setting, cool quests and a well connected overall experience. Even Tiragarde was great. Stormsong felt like the Horde questing zone but a little better.

    One of the main reasons I can’t get into Horde cause the Alliance quests are so well done and of course the aesthetics. Now if they made Silvermoon City or even Surama a Horde hub or the main city I could see myself going Horde. But Orgrimmar is terrible. Its just so brown. And there are is no AH in Dalaran.
    Last edited by NordWitcher; 2020-09-21 at 11:39 PM.

  20. #80
    Waste of effort and time, nothing will change, Blizzard doesn't think this is an issue, so my advice for any hardcore Alliance players out there is to accept that this situation will only become worse, and to leave the sinking ship before it's already sunk.

    I mean, don't waste your time and energy when you can have the full WoW experience by just playing the other faction.

    I used to play Alliance back in the day (WOD) but I had to spend way more time playing WoW to get the same rewards because as Alliance all guilds that I joined were falling apart and I had to step up and help other raid members to improve and at the same time help the recruit side of things, just for the privilege to play Alliance. Nowadays, I clear the content twice as fast without needing to help anybody or recruiting anyone, which means more free time to do other things/play other games!

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