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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I'm not a defender of Blizzard. I'm an opponent of stupid.
    I think there is one white knight here who has that in his signature. Is that the mantra given to you by Blizzard?

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Btw, do you have anything besides ad hominem arguments? Every time we get in a discussion you don't bring any evidence to refute my statements, you just tell me I'm wrong because you say I am and accuse me of shilling.
    I have seen many times that you ignore reason and continue to parrot your own beliefs. Why bother.

  2. #42
    Scarab Lord Gamevizier's Avatar
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    kinda weird cuz I was also expecting at leasst one realm like the christian's depiction of what hell is gonna be: a fiery, hellish landscape full of demons and humans getting tortured, eaten, burnt and melted in pots.

    Neither Maldraxus nor Ravendreth have these themes though. :3

    We need a diablo-like hellish landscape in this expansion, maybe as a patch? :3

  3. #43
    From a storytelling perspective, death and afterlife should be lame. If the afterlife is a continuation of your life except that it's great and blissful and you get new power, then that takes away a lot of the punch of protecting the mortal world. Why stop Sargeras if letting him succeed means we all end up in happy fun paradise land? Here is Pathfinder's Creative Director making that same point much more eloquently (turns out afterlife not being as good as mortal life is not limited to the Warcraft universe).

    As for why there are only 4 realms, it boils down to the limitations of game development. Making an infinite number of realms would take an infinite amount of time, and so Blizzard makes an in-universe reason why we only visit the places we do, in much the same way that we couldn't go to Kul Tiras and Zandalar, even though they existed in the lore, until BfA

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Doubloons View Post
    From a storytelling perspective, death and afterlife should be lame. If the afterlife is a continuation of your life except that it's great and blissful and you get new power, then that takes away a lot of the punch of protecting the mortal world. Why stop Sargeras if letting him succeed means we all end up in happy fun paradise land? Here is Pathfinder's Creative Director making that same point much more eloquently (turns out afterlife not being as good as mortal life is not limited to the Warcraft universe).

    As for why there are only 4 realms, it boils down to the limitations of game development. Making an infinite number of realms would take an infinite amount of time, and so Blizzard makes an in-universe reason why we only visit the places we do, in much the same way that we couldn't go to Kul Tiras and Zandalar, even though they existed in the lore, until BfA
    Yep, pretty much this.

    When WoW first launched, you knew about all the other places, Outland, Northrend, KT and Zand, but they weren't story-relevant, so they only became accessible as the story went on.

    I can see them introducing revamped 'Vison/Scenario' style content down the line, where in 9.0 our efforts to thwart the Jailer in these main areas cause him to turn his gaze over the infinite, so we start doing these scenarios like a dimension-hop into a smaller map and accomplish "things" (you know, the usual WoW things, like kill x enemies, collect y items, fill bar to 100%).
    This could be solo/group, a dungeon or two, even a Raid could take place in a different realm.

    I could even see a future content patch having a "hell-like" place.
    Not like Molten Front/Firelands, where it's just fire and lava and elementals, but a true place of demonic torture.
    Rivers of red, spooky and intense music with screams, something truly representing one theory of afterlife.
    I mean, in Legion they had people strung up on not-quite-crosses and such, so even though it's a big "adult" in concept, they've done it before.
    Also, as the player, a number of times you have tortured enemies into giving you information and such, so it's not that big of a stretch really.
    We kill the shit out of things, make them bleed, so all they have to do is censor gore and they are good to go.

    They love their "additional zones" concept, so while these 4 may seem a bit bland, odds are there is more to come, and with an infinite well from which to pull, they have some options to get creative.
    Whether or not they do it... who knows.

  5. #45
    In infinite Afterlives one will be an eternal orgy and other fun stuff.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    "Show, dont tell."

    Mantra that should be written on a shovel handle and used to beat Blizzard writers until they learn or turn into flesh puddle.
    I disagree. It is reader's problem that he needs everything to be put into his mouth by a shovel.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pally2 View Post
    When you have those 4 options of being turned into this blue guy with a memory wipe, getting milked for blood by vampires, turn into a seed in a forest or just fight undead forever in some shithole, i kinda get it why many are so keen on becoming lich. Shadowlands dont make any sense to me.
    This is the reason why Sylvanas will set us all free.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by pally2 View Post
    When you have those 4 options of being turned into this blue guy with a memory wipe, getting milked for blood by vampires, turn into a seed in a forest or just fight undead forever in some shithole, i kinda get it why many are so keen on becoming lich. Shadowlands dont make any sense to me.
    Well first of all, you don't have options, you get put wherever the sorting hat wants you. Second of all, there are infinite realms in the Shadowlands, so who knows what else might exist. But yeah the Shadowlands suck, Sylvanas was right.

  8. #48
    Pandaren Monk bryroo's Avatar
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    Warcraft has an elaborate reincarnation system based on how much gold you had when you died.

    Its also why every enemy, on every planet, in every dimension in every time uses the same currency.

    The shadowlands are just for people who died without having completed enough quests to unlock new game+

  9. #49
    You either get eradicated as person, used as fertilizer, used as an involuntary blood donor/torture slave or your soul gets put into some undead monstrosity (little Timmy whose family got slaughtered by the scourge will surely appreciate this).

    But it doesn't matter anyways because every concern can be explained away by "iNfInItE aFtErLiVeS".

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    You either get eradicated as person, used as fertilizer, used as an involuntary blood donor/torture slave or your soul gets put into some undead monstrosity (little Timmy whose family got slaughtered by the scourge will surely appreciate this).
    Yes. The afterlife sucks. That's a pretty common trope in media. Even in settings where the afterlife is blissful cloud fields with singing angels, the afterlife sucks because there's nothing to strive for. Nothing ever changes. Nothing ever improves. There's a reason why mortals want to keep living, even when the afterlife is known to exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    But it doesn't matter anyways because every concern can be explained away by "iNfInItE aFtErLiVeS".
    The purpose of saying there's infinite afterlives is not to counter the "Afterlife sucks" claim, it's to justify why we don't see every dead lore figure; they're elsewhere in the Shadowlands.

    Personally, I'm quite satisfied with the cosmology of just the six areas we see in game. One administers the entire realm, one ferries the dead, one defends the realm, one handles rebirth, one ensures all souls have one last chance to earn redemption and the last houses the unrepentant souls that couldn't be redeemed. I don't see a need for any more myself (Because again, the afterlife sucks; there's no room for an afterlife that's just like regular life)

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by 3Doubloons View Post
    Yes. The afterlife sucks. That's a pretty common trope in media. Even in settings where the afterlife is blissful cloud fields with singing angels, the afterlife sucks because there's nothing to strive for. Nothing ever changes. Nothing ever improves. There's a reason why mortals want to keep living, even when the afterlife is known to exist.



    The purpose of saying there's infinite afterlives is not to counter the "Afterlife sucks" claim, it's to justify why we don't see every dead lore figure; they're elsewhere in the Shadowlands.

    Personally, I'm quite satisfied with the cosmology of just the six areas we see in game. One administers the entire realm, one ferries the dead, one defends the realm, one handles rebirth, one ensures all souls have one last chance to earn redemption and the last houses the unrepentant souls that couldn't be redeemed. I don't see a need for any more myself (Because again, the afterlife sucks; there's no room for an afterlife that's just like regular life)
    Exploring something that sucks. Just what I needed in my video game.

  12. #52
    Why does it suck?
    Bastion has its reasons why you memories get removed and they are discussed ingame
    Maldraxxus only gets people who are quite ok with the system there
    Ardenweald doesn't "use your sould as fertilizer". It uses the anima. You are not the anima. Your souls gives off anima by the magnitude of your experiences in RL
    Revendreth... well if you land there your life was not very good now was it? After Revendreth you get another realm.

    There are many more realms and many have no deeper purpose like these. YOu get the one you fit the best. Just because YOU don't like bastion doesnt mean every soul in the universe does not like it.

  13. #53
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pally2 View Post
    Shadowlands dont make any sense to me.
    As opposed to any other afterlife representation....

  14. #54
    Only mildly related but funny


    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    As opposed to any other afterlife representation....
    Yes..? Do you seriously think WoW's version is the best you can get when it comes to portrayal of afterlife?

    Anyway, I've been saying that afterlife expansion is a terrible idea and I still think that. Personally, Shadowlands and Arbiter are sketchy as fuck and I couldn't care less about what happens to them. I don't see why anyone should feel obligated to serve the eternal ones. So far they haven't displayed wisdom, power nor competence that would give them credence, much less put them on the level of gods or some higher beings that decide what is good and what is wrong. They're just another group of high-ranking blokes with a shitton of power and land. They're not gods, they're feudal lords. If they can be overthrown then it means they should be overthrown.

  15. #55
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Yes..? Do you seriously think WoW's version is the best you can get when it comes to portrayal of afterlife?
    Its a silly concept in a cartoonish game. There are mountains of other actually valid issues with the game compared to this.

  16. #56
    Not really the best but they do have a nice concept of it.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    "Show, dont tell."

    Mantra that should be written on a shovel handle and used to beat Blizzard writers until they learn or turn into flesh puddle.
    And is completely worthless when the situation in question cannot be shown to begin with. We've got two issues at hand here: a) infinity - it's impossible to depict infinite realms in a finite medium. b) the machine is broken - normally, souls go to the infinite realms. Right now, they all go to the Maw.

    We simply never get into contact with those infinite realms by way of story, so telling us about them is more or less the only way to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    But... what if this dosen't really become a thing? As in, what if they don't add any new afterlives in the expac? I know this is a really,really stupid thing to say, but what if we just end up seeing only these five?
    Then nothing. We're never going to see all of them anyway, since that is fundamentally impossible.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by pally2 View Post
    When you have those 4 options of being turned into this blue guy with a memory wipe, getting milked for blood by vampires, turn into a seed in a forest or just fight undead forever in some shithole, i kinda get it why many are so keen on becoming lich. Shadowlands dont make any sense to me.
    Bolded part had me laughing pretty hard, great job.

  19. #59
    Pandaren Monk Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Yes..? Do you seriously think WoW's version is the best you can get when it comes to portrayal of afterlife?

    Anyway, I've been saying that afterlife expansion is a terrible idea and I still think that. Personally, Shadowlands and Arbiter are sketchy as fuck and I couldn't care less about what happens to them. I don't see why anyone should feel obligated to serve the eternal ones. So far they haven't displayed wisdom, power nor competence that would give them credence, much less put them on the level of gods or some higher beings that decide what is good and what is wrong. They're just another group of high-ranking blokes with a shitton of power and land. They're not gods, they're feudal lords. If they can be overthrown then it means they should be overthrown.
    Is Bwonsamdi ok though?

    I'm a Girl by the way
    I see dead people.... Yes, kinda my ting, ya know

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    And is completely worthless when the situation in question cannot be shown to begin with. We've got two issues at hand here: a) infinity - it's impossible to depict infinite realms in a finite medium. b) the machine is broken - normally, souls go to the infinite realms. Right now, they all go to the Maw.

    We simply never get into contact with those infinite realms by way of story, so telling us about them is more or less the only way to do it.
    Well since they cant really pull off the "telling" stuff, the writers should not even bother with something this complex. Or even better, since they cant even basics right, they should dump writing alltogether and find an actual productive job. Like working in a tollbooth.

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