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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised their first target would be Sunwell. It could be transformed into powerful source of Void energies and it would certainly punish blood elves for all the trouble they put ren'dorei through... So yea, let's hope they'll not succumb to whispers.
    Indeed. The Ren'dorei are able to tear rifts into reality and teleport wherever they want, so really getting close enough to the Sunwell to corrupt it would be easy. I'm pretty sure the only reason why Alleria and her forces didn't embark on this operation during the Fourth War is because they still feel connected to Quel'thalas, and don't want to see it completely obliterated.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't recall the Sin'dorei ever being "okay" with the San'layn - while there was a brief flirtation with the remaining San'layn joining the Horde in BfA, no Blood Elves were actually involved in the recruitment, with only Rokhan and Talanji really working with Blood Prince Dreven. Beyond this, though; the San'layn aren't functionally very different from Blood or Unholy Death Knights, both of whom are already part of the Horde and the Alliance.

    On the other hand, Void magic itself has proven deleterious to the Sunwell - which given its nigh-sacrosanct place in Sin'dorei culture would explain their lack of enthusiasm for Void Elves or anything else Void-related.
    A better way to word it would be "Why was the Horde (specifically Sylvanas) okay with the Blood Elves banishing valuable allies when they were actively trying to recruit even more terrible people?"

    Not to mention Lor'themar calls the Void Elves traitors, which is ironic considering he kicked them out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Void magic threatens the sunwell itself, that is all there is to it.
    So does death magic and fel magic. Are they kicking out the Death Knights and Warlocks? What about the Demon Hunters?

  3. #223
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    A better way to word it would be "Why was the Horde (specifically Sylvanas) okay with the Blood Elves banishing valuable allies when they were actively trying to recruit even more terrible people?"

    Not to mention Lor'themar calls the Void Elves traitors, which is ironic considering he kicked them out.
    I would imagine the Horde didn't see Umbric and his group as valuable, or was otherwise unaware of their existence given that Umbric and his group's exile was an internal matter of Quel'Thalas. Sylvanas as Warchief could of course attempt to recruit whoever she might like - but the Void Elves declared for Stormwind before she could even become aware of them as a force (due to their closeness with Alleria).

    As for Lor'themar, nothing stops him from being a hypocrite - he's indulged in hypocrisy in the past, and will likely do so again in the future.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
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    We did but build his pedestal,
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  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Indeed. The Ren'dorei are able to tear rifts into reality and teleport wherever they want, so really getting close enough to the Sunwell to corrupt it would be easy. I'm pretty sure the only reason why Alleria and her forces didn't embark on this operation during the Fourth War is because they still feel connected to Quel'thalas, and don't want to see it completely obliterated.
    Exactly my thoughts. What is point of exiling them because they pose a threat when they can easily infiltrate Sunwell plateau and sabotage Sunwell? Exiling them only create more reasons for ren'dorei to do so.

    As you said, Alleria and all other void elves expressed no interest in damagin Sunwell and they made it clear they care about Quel'thalas and its citizens. They certainly don't agree with current goverment, but have no intentions to act against the nation. Their motives to study Void were to protect their homeland to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    As for Lor'themar, nothing stops him from being a hypocrite - he's indulged in hypocrisy in the past, and will likely do so again in the future.
    Well, he already proved he will rather exile people who are in opposition to his leadership then to open talks to address needs or fears of all of "his" people, which is not really good approach when you're leader. As a reagent lord, he caused his nation fracturing two times already, each time driving elf exiles right into the Alliance.
    Last edited by Vaedan; 2020-09-27 at 12:47 PM.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Exactly my thoughts. What is point of exiling them because they pose a threat when they can easily infiltrate Sunwell plateau and sabotage Sunwell? Exiling them only create more reasons for ren'dorei to do so.

    As you said, Alleria and all other void elves expressed no interest in damagin Sunwell and they made it clear they care about Quel'thalas and its citizens. They certainly don't agree with current goverment, but have no intentions to act against the nation. Their motives to study Void were to protect their homeland to begin with.



    Well, he already proved he will rather exile people who are in opposition to his leadership then to open talks to address needs or fears of all of "his" people, which is not really good approach when you're leader. As a reagent lord, he caused his nation fracturing two times already, each time driving elf exiles right into the Alliance.
    This is what I've been saying for 12 pages, but people don't want to listen. If the Ren'dorei wanted to, they could easily corrupt the Sunwell. Banishing them only gave them a reason to want to do it.

    Rommath was a fool, and his decision backfired. It is only thanks to Magister Umbric that the Battle of Dazar'alor was won by the Alliance and the war turned in their favour.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-09-27 at 12:53 PM.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    they are undeads , undead is his own race with his own playable faction. give forsaken more customizations

    i think look nice


    There is something called the development of history and the history of quelthalas leads us to be light elves, the forsaken have their own history they can have elf customization
    Only issue I have with this is that it is elf ears on a (undead) human shaped face which makes it look too weird. But forsaken elves (and other races) is certainly something I am 100% for.

  7. #227
    Stood in the Fire Vrinara's Avatar
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    ... What says they aren't might I ask?

    On off topic. Tell that to all the san'layn rpers. criiiingy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    they are undeads , undead is his own race with his own playable faction. give forsaken more customizations

    i think look nice


    There is something called the development of history and the history of quelthalas leads us to be light elves, the forsaken have their own history they can have elf customization
    WAIT WHAT?!?! WHEN THE HELL DID FORSAKEN GET RED EYES AND ELF EARS! .... Shadowlands.. I love you even more!

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    So does death magic and fel magic. Are they kicking out the Death Knights and Warlocks? What about the Demon Hunters?
    Not to the same degree, void is literally the antithesis for it, Alleria touched it and the whole thing went absolutely bonkers.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Vrinara View Post
    ... What says they aren't might I ask?

    On off topic. Tell that to all the san'layn rpers. criiiingy.

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    WAIT WHAT?!?! WHEN THE HELL DID FORSAKEN GET RED EYES AND ELF EARS! .... Shadowlands.. I love you even more!
    I think this is only fan mock up. Forsaken are getting more eye colors, like purple, green and red, but they are not getting elf ears.

  10. #230
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    San'lyan doesn't threaten the Sunwell, Void Elves' connection does.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  11. #231
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    also, Hathorel's comrades in Orgrimmar are Dark Rangers, right? I'd assume therefore in general the Blood Elves are okay with Dark Rangers, and furthermore by proxy, the San'layn
    Last edited by Ardenaso; 2020-09-27 at 03:25 PM.
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Horde's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Vrinara View Post
    ... What says they aren't might I ask?

    On off topic. Tell that to all the san'layn rpers. criiiingy.

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    WAIT WHAT?!?! WHEN THE HELL DID FORSAKEN GET RED EYES AND ELF EARS! .... Shadowlands.. I love you even more!
    fanart obvius

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    also, Hathorel's comrades in Orgrimmar are Dark Rangers, right? I'd assume therefore in general the Blood Elves are okay with Dark Rangers, and furthermore by proxy, the San'layn
    Big difference between Dark Rangers and San'layn. The Dark Rangers are closer to death knights in terms of their philosophy. They're more focused than normal Forsaken, so they're not just like "grr death to all who live," and they seem better able to act normally.

    Hathorel was there to get revenge on Jaina for his killed friends in Dalaran. He was there as just another member of Sylvanas' cronies.

    I would agree that blood elves are probably okay with Dark Rangers because they've given no indication otherwise.

    We've never seen the blood elves' reaction to the San'layn because as far as we've seen, none of them knew the San'layn were up for membership in the Horde. I'd like to have seen their reaction, but Blizzard has a nasty habit of depriving us of entertaining reunions (Illidan with Malfurion & Tyrande, Arthas with Varian, etc.).

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Horde fans don’t love void elves. And want them all to go mad ... blizzard might actually do that given all the cries to make alliance more nuanced and less boring.

    But it’s funny how horde fans view of that is to make the alliance evil, and that blizzard might actually listen to the players who don’t actually play the race.

    Just like they did with night elves when they cut their arcane side off to attach it to the horde and made them 100% forest elves exactly what the horde fans who don’t play them want.

    Mark my words void elves successfully resisting the void and actually being decent honourable elves is going to vanish “due to popular horde request” - and just as what happened with night elves they’ll end up not being the incredible race you were misled to believe. As blizzard step up the transplant of the heart of the alliance to the horde.

    Classic bait and switch.
    While i am fully aware they are biased, the cat is out of the bag. Even if some of them fall to the void, they will continue to exist cause they are a player race.

    But, i dont think they will do it. The fact that the idea was already used in the vision of N'zoth confirms it. There is no way they will do the same thing again.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Can someone explain this logic pls - San'layn characters are evil as fuck, and the stuff they do is terrible, but yet it seems the Belves aren't that bothered by it, but have a major issue with void elves - kicking them out "dangerous magic " (ahem, remember fel in TFT-TBC? remember Illidari??), but yet seem offended they re-joined the alliance and actually value it a lot more.

    Not to mention they are far more in line with the values the blood elves seem to eschew, yet they'd rather go with the San'layn...

    Someone explain to me how? ! Why?!
    San'layn are part of Sylvanas' Forsaken, not Silvermoon. I'm sure the Blood Elves don't particularly like the San'layn, but they can't exactly tell the Forsaken which kind of undead they can or can't have in their nation.

    In contrast, the void elves were actually part of Silvermoon before they got kicked out.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I would imagine the Horde didn't see Umbric and his group as valuable, or was otherwise unaware of their existence given that Umbric and his group's exile was an internal matter of Quel'Thalas. Sylvanas as Warchief could of course attempt to recruit whoever she might like - but the Void Elves declared for Stormwind before she could even become aware of them as a force (due to their closeness with Alleria).

    As for Lor'themar, nothing stops him from being a hypocrite - he's indulged in hypocrisy in the past, and will likely do so again in the future.
    More like they were blinded by fear - I don't think you can think the void is terrible dangerous in one instnace and in the next breath think it's not valuable

    They didn't believe it was possible and too dangerous, I would personally keep such things away from power hungry war chief so I don't have to be forced to put up with a potentially catastrophic presence.

    But then maybe I give the blood elves too much credit, and they were just being dumb about it, I doubt it though. But it's possible.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    While i am fully aware they are biased, the cat is out of the bag. Even if some of them fall to the void, they will continue to exist cause they are a player race.

    But, i dont think they will do it. The fact that the idea was already used in the vision of N'zoth confirms it. There is no way they will do the same thing again.
    Dunno. Blizzard doesn't seem to mind repeating the quest of "Blood Elf can't resist power and is gonna screw everything up because a big power source drove them crazy" over and over again.

    Personally, I'm not a huge fan of void elves just because there's not many of them and they don't have a home. Purple rock isn't enough. I like races with established lore behind them, so considering Void Elves without being with the blood or high elves is kind of meh to me. I'd like to see the void elves maybe explore the elves' history to see where they can fit in and find something for themselves, because right now, they're like Blizzard took Alleria and turned her into a race. Elf-hating elves with more loyalty to a 20-year old human boy they just met than their ancient homeland. You'd think they might just be upset with Rommath and Lor'themar, and not make themselves enemies of the entire kingdom.

    I would've preferred something like Xal'atath possessing the body of that high elf and bringing the bodies of her high elf friends back to a different form of undeath that's more like a void-forged draenei/forsaken type of deal, and finding a reason to send them to work for the Alliance, and make Xal'atath a sneaky Onyxia-type figure in the Alliance. I think it'd be interesting to have an entire race secretly seeking to undermine the faction they're a part of.

    In all honesty, I don't care one way or the other about the Void Elves. I just wish Blizzard would quit dragging their feet and just give the void elves normal blood elf hair colors and hairstyles so we can just have our high elves already and be done with it. It's baffling to me why they keep making these baby steps and seeing the players as mindless beasts to be leashed and caged instead of just giving us what we want in a game they want us to pay for and play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I would imagine the Horde didn't see Umbric and his group as valuable, or was otherwise unaware of their existence given that Umbric and his group's exile was an internal matter of Quel'Thalas. Sylvanas as Warchief could of course attempt to recruit whoever she might like - but the Void Elves declared for Stormwind before she could even become aware of them as a force (due to their closeness with Alleria).

    As for Lor'themar, nothing stops him from being a hypocrite - he's indulged in hypocrisy in the past, and will likely do so again in the future.
    What makes him a hypocrite? As far as I know, fel doesn't have a will of its own and whisper to you to kill everyone around you. And even if it did, Lor'themar wasn't the one to decide to use it. His prince sent powerful magi who rebuilt Silvermoon and reclaimed Eversong Woods overnight. I think the breath of relief as the Scourge was finally driven back would have shown him the value of fel-powered magisters.

    And then the light Sunwell was back after a year or so at the same time he became the full actual leader of the blood elves.

    The last time the elves lost the Sunwell, it was devastating. Coupling that with the void literally being the opposite of the Light, which most in Azeroth equate with good, you can't blame them for reacting strongly, preemptively, and wisely imo once it was proven that being close to the Sunwell threatened to flip it from light to void. How could they be trustworthy when any time, one could be corrupted by the void and be just a puppet trying to sabotage Quel'thalas or the Sunwell?
    Last edited by Koryn123; 2020-09-28 at 01:18 AM.

  18. #238
    Well, i do agree that their lore needs development and they need a place in the world, not just the rift training grounds.

    There was a void veil in old Quel'thelas. I hope Blizzard builds them a retreated settlement there.
    On that note, Gilneas needs to be a thing as well. It's just sitting there, unused.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Well, i do agree that their lore needs development and they need a place in the world, not just the rift training grounds.

    There was a void veil in old Quel'thelas. I hope Blizzard builds them a retreated settlement there.
    On that note, Gilneas needs to be a thing as well. It's just sitting there, unused.
    Void Veil?

  20. #240
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    More like they were blinded by fear - I don't think you can think the void is terrible dangerous in one instnace and in the next breath think it's not valuable

    They didn't believe it was possible and too dangerous, I would personally keep such things away from power hungry war chief so I don't have to be forced to put up with a potentially catastrophic presence.

    But then maybe I give the blood elves too much credit, and they were just being dumb about it, I doubt it though. But it's possible.
    Danger is not always synonymous with value. But Umbric's people were also exploring avenues explored earlier by Darkhan Drathir, the High Elf who personally allowed the Scourge directly into the heart of Quel'Thalas and in so doing led to the near-downfall of their kingdom. Perhaps they didn't fear the Void as much as they did Umbric's people going the way of Darkhan, or even allying with the Scourge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    What makes him a hypocrite? As far as I know, fel doesn't have a will of its own and whisper to you to kill everyone around you. And even if it did, Lor'themar wasn't the one to decide to use it. His prince sent powerful magi who rebuilt Silvermoon and reclaimed Eversong Woods overnight. I think the breath of relief as the Scourge was finally driven back would have shown him the value of fel-powered magisters.

    And then the light Sunwell was back after a year or so at the same time he became the full actual leader of the blood elves.

    The last time the elves lost the Sunwell, it was devastating. Coupling that with the void literally being the opposite of the Light, which most in Azeroth equate with good, you can't blame them for reacting strongly, preemptively, and wisely imo once it was proven that being close to the Sunwell threatened to flip it from light to void. How could they be trustworthy when any time, one could be corrupted by the void and be just a puppet trying to sabotage Quel'thalas or the Sunwell?
    Fel is corrupting and corrosive to the soul by its very nature - it warps, mutates, and unhinges fairly swiftly even without the requirement of whispering madness to its users (and you could easily argue it's six of one and a half-dozen of the other).

    And I think there's a pretty significant difference between driving those who do research into dangerous sources of power like the Void into exile, and sensible caution keeping them far from the re-ignited Sunwell so as to avoid future problems. The Blood Elves know well the stigma attached to exploring dangerous powers and using forbidden magic - so to exile their own for the same explorations seems both hypocritical and callous to me. Lor'themar also already struggles with the exile of the High Elves from Quel'Thalas for threatening a schism among his people, and yet he makes the same decision with Umbric's people and drives them directly into the arms of the Alliance (as opposed to simply earning their ire). So yes, I think hypocrisy covers it pretty well.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
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