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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Danger is not always synonymous with value. But Umbric's people were also exploring avenues explored earlier by Darkhan Drathir, the High Elf who personally allowed the Scourge directly into the heart of Quel'Thalas and in so doing led to the near-downfall of their kingdom. Perhaps they didn't fear the Void as much as they did Umbric's people going the way of Darkhan, or even allying with the Scourge.
    While it is true, danger is not always synonymous with value, , power is, and it is very hard to believe the blood elves aren't aware of the power of the void, they can't be that dumb for a power hungry magical race.

    So I more predisposed to believe they know it's valuable, it's just that the danger outweighs the value in this case, just like the Darnassians during the long vigil where the danger of using the arcane (which meant bringing back the Legion and end of world) outweighed all the benefits they could grasp from it, and fear, "too risky" likely kept them from giving Darth'remar's ideas the consideration they could have done.

    now Nelf fans would ofc support their decision at the time, Thalassian fans won't, but valuable, the void would be, but too dangerous.

    It is possible they feared Umbric's people going Darkhan's path, quest texts alludes to some concern, but to me it seems more in the direction of pursuing a forbidden path (of which void was one of several he looked into) against the warning of the council of leaders, the fear is quite clearly framed as the Sunwell's corruption/destruction, and you wouldn't want Sylvanas knowing of the void elves she'd likely try to force them to make use of them and this power, a position they wouldn't want to be.


    It's hard to think any race on Azeroth doesn't know the power and value of the void, but also aware of how dangerous it is as none of have withstood the whispers - (until now), but then who'd believe Alleria is successful? With Velen, Tuarlyon and Illidan to vouch for her? 3 people blood elf leadership won't trust, or be convinced that if she as she could successfully teach others.

    But come on, everything about the void screams too dangerous, that's got to be the main issue, and what would compel anyone to go there? The immense power it holds, - the distinction with the void elves is that they were motivated out of trying to protect their people and world from that threat, rather than Darkhan like motivation of personal power born out of his fragile ego and insecurities. That's how they frame their story. Prior to Alleria and Umbric's group, those who went seeking the void were already cultist of the same insecure ilk as Dark'han looking for power to make up for their failings and inadequacies - everyone else in their sane mind just wouldn't touch it, but it would seem these ones were sufficiently motivated, and while their motivation was not enough, they happened across someone who was capable of completing the level of knowledge need to successfully start tapping that stream. At least that's how the story goes. So far.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    Void Veil?
    Made a thread about it. There's some pictures there.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-thelas!-(PTR)
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-09-28 at 04:35 AM.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Danger is not always synonymous with value. But Umbric's people were also exploring avenues explored earlier by Darkhan Drathir, the High Elf who personally allowed the Scourge directly into the heart of Quel'Thalas and in so doing led to the near-downfall of their kingdom. Perhaps they didn't fear the Void as much as they did Umbric's people going the way of Darkhan, or even allying with the Scourge.

    Fel is corrupting and corrosive to the soul by its very nature - it warps, mutates, and unhinges fairly swiftly even without the requirement of whispering madness to its users (and you could easily argue it's six of one and a half-dozen of the other).

    And I think there's a pretty significant difference between driving those who do research into dangerous sources of power like the Void into exile, and sensible caution keeping them far from the re-ignited Sunwell so as to avoid future problems. The Blood Elves know well the stigma attached to exploring dangerous powers and using forbidden magic - so to exile their own for the same explorations seems both hypocritical and callous to me. Lor'themar also already struggles with the exile of the High Elves from Quel'Thalas for threatening a schism among his people, and yet he makes the same decision with Umbric's people and drives them directly into the arms of the Alliance (as opposed to simply earning their ire). So yes, I think hypocrisy covers it pretty well.
    Even so, Lor'themar wasn't the one to decide to use fel and they seem to have stopped using it as soon as they could (as far as we've seen since BC).

    It could have been past experiences with negative influencing magic that drove them to be banished in the first place. Elves already have a tough enough time with arcane as it is, considering how often Blizzard pulls the "blood elf goes crazy with wonky magic source and is about to screw everyone over so kill them" lever.

    If you ask me, it could easily be interpreted not as hypocrisy, but as learning from past experiences with corruptive magic influences and taking steps to avoid repeating the same mistakes, until Blizzard goes full ham into the modern storytelling trope of "the thing that has a reputation for being good in this genre is actually bad and has been all along now that we've retconned 30 years of franchise history, you dumb gullible idiot" and makes the Light completely mustache-twirling oppressive evil.

    What you said about them not wanting Umbric's group going down the route of Dar'Khan could be the main reason why they were banished. Dar'Khan wanted power and used his friendship with Lor'themar to gain information on their defenses to trade for it. Banishing them from the secured part of Quel'thalas would at least remove that particular danger, should they fall victim to the whispers of the void.

    Also, I think it's a bit of a stretch to equate banishing those elves who'd become void elves with banishing the high elves. Weren't the void elves described as a squad or something? People threatening the security of the kingdom, the merciful thing is banishment.

    They didn't have to join the Alliance, and only did so because Alleria saved them and offered them a place and guidance with the void. Still, Lor'themar shouldn't have expected them to be neutral and remain inactive by default. That said, I think if the void elves want Quel'thalas to rejoin the Alliance, then joining the fight against them on the Alliance's side probably wasn't the best way to go. The better option would've been to try and show them they can control the whispers (though I doubt their new appearance would inspire much confidence in Lor'themar and Rommath) and act as diplomats between Silvermoon and Stormwind.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Made a thread about it. There's some pictures there.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-thelas!-(PTR)
    That's very interesting. It's a shame they went with generic void black and purple aesthetic. Why do the big bads always default to black + (insert color)? Legion is black and green, Scourge lost their dynamic orange, purple, and green to become largely black and blue in WotLK, and Void is just black and purple.

    I think it'd be much more interesting for the void elves to remain closer to home and be hiding out in that peninsula close to the Ghostlands. It'd make it much more believable that they still care about Quel'thalas, especially if they had some background text mention that despite the banishment, they're staying there on that little stretch of land and periodically venturing into the Ghostlands to kill Scourge, helping Quel'thalas whether Lor'themar likes it or not, proving that the void can be used to benefit their people.

    Much more believable than just joining Stormwind's army and fighting blood elves with no reservations. That tells me all they really care about above their homeland and everything else is just doing what Stormwind tells them to, like Alleria.

  4. #244
    Ren'dorei are not meant to have a rich, background lore because they are the only playable race that is new. That's the point. It was the same thing for the Quel'dorei back when they were first exiled 7.000 years ago. Do you think they had a rich kingdom and culture? No, they were literally 20 mutated night elves who made their home in a bunch of ships. It's the same thing for Ren'dorei, for the first time in WoW's history we bore witness to the rise of a new race, and the obstacles that such a race might face when they have low numbers and a small home.

    Even so, the Ren'dorei are able to field large military forces despite their low numbers, as was shown many times during the Fourth War. At the Battle of Lordaeron, Alleria Windrunner led a regiment of Ren'dorei rangers, then in Nazmir the Ren'dorei could afford to send several spellcasters to the suicide mission, and finally in Zuldazar Magister Umbric and his mages worked to raise several fallen dinosaurs for war purposes. Their home Telogrus Rift is also a place they can call refuge, and is a perfect refuge. Not only is the Rift completely isolated from all the mortal enemies of the Ren'dorei, as it's located in the Void and thus only the Ren'dorei can access it, but it also contains a lot of knowledge and power of the Void, making it a perfect base of operations for the Ren'dorei.

    In comparison, the founders of Quel'thalas used a bunch of small ships as their base, thus the Ren'dorei are in a much better position.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Ren'dorei are not meant to have a rich, background lore because they are the only playable race that is new. That's the point. It was the same thing for the Quel'dorei back when they were first exiled 7.000 years ago. Do you think they had a rich kingdom and culture? No, they were literally 20 mutated night elves who made their home in a bunch of ships. It's the same thing for Ren'dorei, for the first time in WoW's history we bore witness to the rise of a new race, and the obstacles that such a race might face when they have low numbers and a small home.

    Even so, the Ren'dorei are able to field large military forces despite their low numbers, as was shown many times during the Fourth War. At the Battle of Lordaeron, Alleria Windrunner led a regiment of Ren'dorei rangers, then in Nazmir the Ren'dorei could afford to send several spellcasters to the suicide mission, and finally in Zuldazar Magister Umbric and his mages worked to raise several fallen dinosaurs for war purposes. Their home Telogrus Rift is also a place they can call refuge, and is a perfect refuge. Not only is the Rift completely isolated from all the mortal enemies of the Ren'dorei, as it's located in the Void and thus only the Ren'dorei can access it, but it also contains a lot of knowledge and power of the Void, making it a perfect base of operations for the Ren'dorei.

    In comparison, the founders of Quel'thalas used a bunch of small ships as their base, thus the Ren'dorei are in a much better position.
    Since they are former blood elves, all lore related to sin'dorei before their exile applies to them as well, so I don't really believe they have that bad background. Their story was being told since WC2. What we get is the reason why they were formed as independent group aligned with the Alliance, rather then Horde. Many people argue that nightborne get whole campaign and end game zone + raid dedicacted to them, but they are a group which split from their brethren 10 thousand years ago and since then, they developed into something different, so proper introdution is in order. If discovered void elves alongside Army of the Light as members of Alleria's squad which followed her from Quel'thalas to Outland and which was transformed by the Void during their missions to stop the Legion, it would require entirely different storytelling.

    What is great potential of void elves, and also their greatest need, is development of their lore. Many other races have their racial stories closed since Cata and nothing new, larger story focus mostly on common enemies or faction as whole. We've seen birth of ren'dorei, now it is time to show us how they deal with their role in the Alliance, how they are confident in participating in the war against the Horde, what are their goals, interests and most importantly their relations with blood elves.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Since they are former blood elves, all lore related to sin'dorei before their exile applies to them as well, so I don't really believe they have that bad background. Their story was being told since WC2. What we get is the reason why they were formed as independent group aligned with the Alliance, rather then Horde. Many people argue that nightborne get whole campaign and end game zone + raid dedicacted to them, but they are a group which split from their brethren 10 thousand years ago and since then, they developed into something different, so proper introdution is in order. If discovered void elves alongside Army of the Light as members of Alleria's squad which followed her from Quel'thalas to Outland and which was transformed by the Void during their missions to stop the Legion, it would require entirely different storytelling.

    What is great potential of void elves, and also their greatest need, is development of their lore. Many other races have their racial stories closed since Cata and nothing new, larger story focus mostly on common enemies or faction as whole. We've seen birth of ren'dorei, now it is time to show us how they deal with their role in the Alliance, how they are confident in participating in the war against the Horde, what are their goals, interests and most importantly their relations with blood elves.
    My point is that there's a reason why Void elves don't have a rich background of their own. It's because they are a new race, which split off from the Sin'dorei only 1/2 years ago (in-universe). All other playable races are already established for centuries or millenias, while the Ren'dorei are a new race, and that was a unique decision Blizzard made. Just like how most of the background of Void elves comes from when they were Sin'dorei, likewise the background that Dath'remar and his people had 7.000 years ago came from when they were Kaldorei.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-09-28 at 09:39 AM.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    While it is true, danger is not always synonymous with value, , power is, and it is very hard to believe the blood elves aren't aware of the power of the void, they can't be that dumb for a power hungry magical race.

    So I more predisposed to believe they know it's valuable, it's just that the danger outweighs the value in this case, just like the Darnassians during the long vigil where the danger of using the arcane (which meant bringing back the Legion and end of world) outweighed all the benefits they could grasp from it, and fear, "too risky" likely kept them from giving Darth'remar's ideas the consideration they could have done.

    now Nelf fans would ofc support their decision at the time, Thalassian fans won't, but valuable, the void would be, but too dangerous.

    It is possible they feared Umbric's people going Darkhan's path, quest texts alludes to some concern, but to me it seems more in the direction of pursuing a forbidden path (of which void was one of several he looked into) against the warning of the council of leaders, the fear is quite clearly framed as the Sunwell's corruption/destruction, and you wouldn't want Sylvanas knowing of the void elves she'd likely try to force them to make use of them and this power, a position they wouldn't want to be.

    but we are straying from the topic. Tell me when did blood elves accept vampires into their society in the same way that void elves were part of quelthalas society?
    because the vampires that I saw in BFA joined the forsaken not the blood elves, and the forsaken are their own society and their own sovereign state.
    It's hard to think any race on Azeroth doesn't know the power and value of the void, but also aware of how dangerous it is as none of have withstood the whispers - (until now), but then who'd believe Alleria is successful? With Velen, Tuarlyon and Illidan to vouch for her? 3 people blood elf leadership won't trust, or be convinced that if she as she could successfully teach others.

    But come on, everything about the void screams too dangerous, that's got to be the main issue, and what would compel anyone to go there? The immense power it holds, - the distinction with the void elves is that they were motivated out of trying to protect their people and world from that threat, rather than Darkhan like motivation of personal power born out of his fragile ego and insecurities. That's how they frame their story. Prior to Alleria and Umbric's group, those who went seeking the void were already cultist of the same insecure ilk as Dark'han looking for power to make up for their failings and inadequacies - everyone else in their sane mind just wouldn't touch it, but it would seem these ones were sufficiently motivated, and while their motivation was not enough, they happened across someone who was capable of completing the level of knowledge need to successfully start tapping that stream. At least that's how the story goes. So far.
    the important thing the void is dangerous to the sunwell. and in Quelthalas society the sunwell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all

    It is normal that they prohibited it because it endangers what is most sacred and important for the entire kingdom, the void elves were playing with dangerous powers and almost destroyed them, imagine that they did not exile them and they would have created a portal in the middle of silvermoon where horrors of the void would kill to all? because they began to use the void well only when the locus walker began to guide them. That is the difference that the highborne they knew how to use arcane magic and were experts in it, the void elves were not experts in void at that time and had to be saved.
    Last edited by Rhlor; 2020-09-28 at 10:02 AM.

  8. #248
    The writing is inconsistent because Blizzard are bad writers. The Blood Elves actions would have to be called hypocritical if the writing was to be taken seriously. They exiled High Elves from Silvermoon who were speaking out against the Blood Elves absorbing fel magic, and left them to die. And then they call the Void Elves traitors for experimenting with the Void. And at the same time there are Blood Elf Shadow Priests, and other races in the Horde that have Shadow Priests. It's so bad, you can't help but lose all interest in the story.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by kflay View Post
    The writing is inconsistent because Blizzard are bad writers. The Blood Elves actions would have to be called hypocritical if the writing was to be taken seriously. They exiled High Elves from Silvermoon who were speaking out against the Blood Elves absorbing fel magic, and left them to die. And then they call the Void Elves traitors for experimenting with the Void. And at the same time there are Blood Elf Shadow Priests, and other races in the Horde that have Shadow Priests. It's so bad, you can't help but lose all interest in the story.
    quel'thalas blood elves never absorbed Fel magic, in fact the ones that absorbed corrupted magic were the high elves that are now wretched

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    quel'thalas blood elves never absorbed Fel magic
    Of course they absorbed fel magic. Do the starting zone. They have fel crystals there and their eyes are green.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    in fact the ones that absorbed corrupted magic were the high elves that are now wretched
    That is completely wrong. They were exiled because they refused to absorb fel magic and spoke out against it. They became wretched because of their withdrawal of magic.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by kflay View Post
    Of course they absorbed fel magic. Do the starting zone. They have fel crystals there and their eyes are green.


    That is completely wrong. They were exiled because they refused to absorb fel magic and spoke out against it. They became wretched because of their withdrawal of magic.
    The Warcraft Encyclopedia/Blood Elves
    Even so, the prince's relatively quick acceptance of dire measures (e.g., draining magic from demons) is by no means characteristic of blood elves in general. The blood elves of Outland have by now discovered Kael'thas' agreement with Illidan, and they have for the most part become convinced of its necessity. Most blood elves still live on Azeroth, though. Few of these elves know of Kael'thas' pact with Illidan, and many would be horrified if they discovered it. Draining magic from small mana-bearing vermin is a far cry from draining magic from demons.
    blood elves absorb mana from mana wrynn no fel.


    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Wretched_H...m_and_Villainy
    Description
    <Race>... please, I ask your help.

    Something's happened to my people. Our commander, Ranger Lord Hawkspear, came upon an item of magical energy, and my friends, my family... they succumbed to its seductive power.

    They're corrupted, <race>. All of them.

    My Ellaria wouldn't want to live like that, nor would any of my brothers. Please, put them out of their misery. Quel'lithien Lodge is not far; it's just up the hill, to the northwest.

    Rewards
    You will receive: 65s

    Progress
    You have no idea how difficult it was for me to pull myself away, <name>. I nearly ended up one of them.

    Completion
    Do not feel sorry for me. Those were my friends that you saw at Quel'lithien Lodge, but they were already as good as dead.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    The Warcraft Encyclopedia/Blood Elves
    Even so, the prince's relatively quick acceptance of dire measures (e.g., draining magic from demons) is by no means characteristic of blood elves in general. The blood elves of Outland have by now discovered Kael'thas' agreement with Illidan, and they have for the most part become convinced of its necessity. Most blood elves still live on Azeroth, though. Few of these elves know of Kael'thas' pact with Illidan, and many would be horrified if they discovered it. Draining magic from small mana-bearing vermin is a far cry from draining magic from demons.
    blood elves absorb mana from mana wrynn no fel.
    Again they literally have fel crystals in the Blood Elf starter zone. Where do you think the green eyes come from? Small mana-bearing vermin?

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by kflay View Post
    Again they literally have fel crystals in the Blood Elf starter zone. Where do you think the green eyes come from? Small mana-bearing vermin?
    dath'remar sunstrider and the foundation of quel'thalas



    I understand that you know the lore of the blood / high elves

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    dath'remar sunstrider and the foundation of quel'thalas



    I understand that you know the lore of the blood / high elves
    whatever those pictures are, they don't show

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by kflay View Post
    whatever those pictures are, they don't show
    mana crystals always exiet in quelthalas and this looks like this

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    mana crystals always exiet in quelthalas and this looks like this
    1. I don't see anything
    2. Mana crystals aren't fel crystals

    I don't get what you are trying to tell me

  17. #257
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    Even so, Lor'themar wasn't the one to decide to use fel and they seem to have stopped using it as soon as they could (as far as we've seen since BC).

    It could have been past experiences with negative influencing magic that drove them to be banished in the first place. Elves already have a tough enough time with arcane as it is, considering how often Blizzard pulls the "blood elf goes crazy with wonky magic source and is about to screw everyone over so kill them" lever.

    If you ask me, it could easily be interpreted not as hypocrisy, but as learning from past experiences with corruptive magic influences and taking steps to avoid repeating the same mistakes, until Blizzard goes full ham into the modern storytelling trope of "the thing that has a reputation for being good in this genre is actually bad and has been all along now that we've retconned 30 years of franchise history, you dumb gullible idiot" and makes the Light completely mustache-twirling oppressive evil.

    What you said about them not wanting Umbric's group going down the route of Dar'Khan could be the main reason why they were banished. Dar'Khan wanted power and used his friendship with Lor'themar to gain information on their defenses to trade for it. Banishing them from the secured part of Quel'thalas would at least remove that particular danger, should they fall victim to the whispers of the void.

    Also, I think it's a bit of a stretch to equate banishing those elves who'd become void elves with banishing the high elves. Weren't the void elves described as a squad or something? People threatening the security of the kingdom, the merciful thing is banishment.

    They didn't have to join the Alliance, and only did so because Alleria saved them and offered them a place and guidance with the void. Still, Lor'themar shouldn't have expected them to be neutral and remain inactive by default. That said, I think if the void elves want Quel'thalas to rejoin the Alliance, then joining the fight against them on the Alliance's side probably wasn't the best way to go. The better option would've been to try and show them they can control the whispers (though I doubt their new appearance would inspire much confidence in Lor'themar and Rommath) and act as diplomats between Silvermoon and Stormwind.
    Lor'themar was the regent of Quel'Thalas following Kael'Thas' departure to Outland - I don't think he was at all ignorant of Rommath's use of Fel to rebuild Silvermoon, and his lack of opposition to the plan demonstrates tacit collusion with it regardless of any personal misgivings he may have had.

    Umbric's people were exiled long before they even became Void Elves, the only thing there were guilty of was opposing Rommath and his views about the Void. While the Void is indeed a threat to the Sunwell, it's one that can be managed through proximity (which is likely why the many Blood Elven Shadow Priests don't set it off). In that sense, exile was unnecessary and with Lor'themar's experience in In the Shadow of the Sun with the High Elven exiles in the Eastern Plaguelands, I would say very hypocritical on his part. Umbric's people could have been kept distant but loyal, allowed to explore their research into the Void with Silvermoon's approval as long as they obeyed the command to stay clear of the Sunwell so to avoid damaging it inadvertently. But instead exile was chosen, and as Regent-Lord of Silvermoon Lor'themar shares in the outcome of that sentence - driving Umbric and his people straight into the Alliance's fold.

    As per the Void Elf recruitment quest:
    Alleria Windrunner says: I sense the powers at your command. They are... considerable. You would make valuable allies of the Alliance.
    Magister Umbric says: Silvermoon turned its back on us long ago. Today we are reborn... and it is fitting that we walk a new path. From this day forth, the Alliance has our loyalty.
    It was the exile, as well as Alleria's actions, that made joining the Alliance an imperative for Umbric - and Lor'themar and Rommath are responsible for that, just as they are responsible for the Silver Covenant doing so when they were exiled in turn, for refusing to follow Kael's instructions i.e. Mana Tapping.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post

    It was the exile, as well as Alleria's actions, that made joining the Alliance an imperative for Umbric - and Lor'themar and Rommath are responsible for that, just as they are responsible for the Silver Covenant doing so when they were exiled in turn, for refusing to follow Kael's instructions i.e. Mana Tapping.
    Both the high elves and the void elves deserved their exile, considering the circumstances in both cases.

  19. #259
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Both the high elves and the void elves deserved their exile, considering the circumstances in both cases.
    That's entirely subjective - and given that Lor'themar relates that he feels deeply conflicted about the High Elven exile in In the Shadow of the Sun, it still paints the later exile of Umbric's people as hypocritical on his part.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    That's entirely subjective - and given that Lor'themar relates that he feels deeply conflicted about the High Elven exile in In the Shadow of the Sun, it still paints the later exile of Umbric's people as hypocritical on his part.
    He might feel bad it was still the right call, if you are at the very bottom and people refuse to get the help they need to function at 100% and incite unrest they are dead-weight.

    Emotions should not matter with such choices.

    And considering the void elves, he was far too lenient, these guys should have been treated like twilight hammer cultists.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kflay View Post
    1. I don't see anything
    2. Mana crystals aren't fel crystals

    I don't get what you are trying to tell me
    Those crystals always looked like that

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/File:Dath%...Silvermoon.png
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2020-09-28 at 12:23 PM.

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