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  1. #161
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    all he wanted was to say in rhetorical form that the alliance is great and the horde trash
    Why would he think that?
    It's not like the Horde got an allied race created in 5 minutes with less lore than the vulpera
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I agree with that, it took me a while to accept that and even appreciate it, but now i can't wait for San'layn.

    Besides they can offer a different elven perspective. How do the elves deal with being undead as an elf - it offers a chance for something differnet han how the humans reacted as they're on the same faction with nuance and complexity because it's still a horrific thing.

    Yet it's balanced by a power upgrade, and Belves love power right. it can also explore the mixed sentiments within the blood elves and allow us to experience the perspective of an undead margnisalised, reviled or revered amongst various walks of society, especially as a vampire..

    They could have that whole underground scene/feel, sort of lead from the shadows, manipulate things, from behind, some for good , some for evil.

    But a loveable undead blood elf, trying to do right despite his condition and working hard for Quel'thlaas might be something interesting to follow - not all San'layn need to be good minded ofc, tha'ts the beauty too... mixture of characters facing down stereotypes.. let the blood elves show they're more enlightened than humans -and also show the drawbacks of being so open to anything just cos it's powerful.
    Vampires are often represented as this decadent aristocratic high society, which definitely hits the spot with elves in fantasy setting. To be honest, I'd make an san'layn shadow priest in addition to my blood elven DH and warlock. For some reason, I enjoy these dark vibes on blood elves more then their righteous and light oriented. My Horde paladin is now proud Zandalari and my mage is now Nightborne. Works great.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I agree with that, it took me a while to accept that and even appreciate it, but now i can't wait for San'layn.

    Besides they can offer a different elven perspective. How do the elves deal with being undead as an elf - it offers a chance for something differnet han how the humans reacted as they're on the same faction with nuance and complexity because it's still a horrific thing.

    Yet it's balanced by a power upgrade, and Belves love power right. it can also explore the mixed sentiments within the blood elves and allow us to experience the perspective of an undead margnisalised, reviled or revered amongst various walks of society, especially as a vampire..

    They could have that whole underground scene/feel, sort of lead from the shadows, manipulate things, from behind, some for good , some for evil.

    But a loveable undead blood elf, trying to do right despite his condition and working hard for Quel'thlaas might be something interesting to follow - not all San'layn need to be good minded ofc, tha'ts the beauty too... mixture of characters facing down stereotypes.. let the blood elves show they're more enlightened than humans -and also show the drawbacks of being so open to anything just cos it's powerful.
    I will tell you the logical course of action from blizzard regarding those monsters if they are accepted into quelthalas. very likely an evil blood prince would kill half the population of silvermoon would take control of quelthalas and be crowned as blood king, then a group of good sanlayn would ask god emperor anduin for help as they kneel before him. we would have a siege of silvermoon and lorthemar is dead and anduin would say he was a good man. the blood elves would be left without a racial leader and with dangerous cannibals hanging around

    loyalist: the blood king always! death to the living!
    Last edited by Rhlor; 2020-09-23 at 04:56 PM.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    But that's the point, the "correct" answer is subjective. I'd say Void Elves and Alleria think like this, but the BElven leadership is choosing to instead ban any Void usage to minimize any risk.

    Both aproaches may backfire, as you present your scenario is a possibility, but the opposite is also true, where overconfidence, or even safety protocols being bypassed or betrayal, could irreparably affect the Sunwell. We can't say there's a "right way" because either could backfire. All it takes for the opposite to end up horribly is for one Void Elf being corrupted and use their powers to purposefully tamper with the Sunwell, and let's not pretend some of the biggest catastrophes and conflicts have been created by a rogue elf agent.

    So risk vs Reward, the only way to account for any security leaks is a complete lockdown, but at the same time, not studying the void makes you less prepared. Couldn't they just study the void far away? They could and they might, yet there's always the possibility any of those scholars is corrupted by the void and gets access/convinces people to infiltrate the Sunwell.
    Indeed. I think to void elves/high elves, and likely the alliance, my poV is what is more seen, but I think this is intentional by design, especially when you write for two sides, and create room for mis-understanding/differing motivations etc.

    It was a similar thing with the blood elves going horde, there was another point of view, that was there, even though it wasn't mentioned much, but by implication and by the resolution of the high elves.

    As a void/high elf, there would be a feeling off the blood elves missing the bigger picture, not taking advantage of an amazing opportunity, being blinded by the horde, and being too scared. Also being hypocritical, valuing monsters, cretins (which is what forsaken, San'layn, orcs, trolls ) etc over their own. They would view it that way, thinking, San'layn magic, Illidari magic, that's all very dangerous, the void is the biggest danger and the one least knowledgeable, and needs the highest priority. But then you're okay with working with "cretins" and "vile remorseless filth" like the undead (San'layn is mentioned because they are the racial equivalent) over the elves of character and moral rectitude that are the researchers and brave void pioneers who won't have questionable morality wondering whether you'd shift or do something even far worse. Seeing Sylvanas' sins would feel all the justification.

    I put it this way, because you have to understand the void elves pov. They gave us more insight into both the character of Umbric and the void elves, and we already know Alleria's heart. Alliance players are aware of what type of people the void elves are. How they view the horde too. They are quite an honourable and morally upright lot, yet quite driven and forthright in investigating the void, tenacious too - but an alliance heart of valour - you only need click on Umbric in Boralus harbour and listen to him, also when you do the Vol'dun and Zuldazaar alliance incursions. They also view the horde as despicable monsters their people should get away from asap, and that they've been misled by these monstrous allies (that's why I used words like cretins/ filth etc)
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  5. #165
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    As a void/high elf, there would be a feeling off the blood elves missing the bigger picture, not taking advantage of an amazing opportunity, being blinded by the horde, and being too scared. Also being hypocritical, valuing monsters, cretins (which is what forsaken, San'layn, orcs, trolls ) etc over their own. They would view it that way, thinking, San'layn magic, Illidari magic, that's all very dangerous, the void is the biggest danger and the one least knowledgeable, and needs the highest priority. But then you're okay with working with "cretins" and "vile remorseless filth" like the undead (San'layn is mentioned because they are the racial equivalent) over the elves of character and moral rectitude that are the researchers and brave void pioneers who won't have questionable morality wondering whether you'd shift or do something even far worse. Seeing Sylvanas' sins would feel all the justification.
    I wouldn't call not following some idiots putting fork into electric outlet "not taking amazing opportunity".

  6. #166
    Probably because the San'layn don't attract fruit flies to the Sunwell just by being near it.
    Scheduled weekly maintenance caught me by surprise.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I wouldn't call not following some idiots putting fork into electric outlet "not taking amazing opportunity".
    You wouldn't, but the from a void elf point of view, the void poses great danger, and great resources that need to be understood and harnessed to defend the world.

    Expelling them from Quel'thlaas for studying and pushing that frontier would viewed as shortsighted and hypocritical given the other allowances they've made for fel and necromancy - while the void has higher priority than all of these because of it's danger and potential.

    They'd view taking safeguards to protect the Sunwell vicinity over expulsion as the correct0 decision ot make, but horde affiliations blindsiding them from what's the much bigger priority and threat - the alliance obsession of the horde is not shared in the other faction who seems to at least in general focus on larger threats only having to engage the horde because of its offensive.

    What I see is blizzard making enough reason for both void elves to prefer the alliance and blood elves not to want them. But I see most players are taking the blood elves side without question here. Fine, they have their preference, but, there is more to it, than oh the void is dangerous to the Sunwell, therefore it's okay to expel and disregard void elves while be okay with allying with forsaken, and San'layn and other such.

    And @Rhlor - the same blood elves joined the alliance because of those repulsive undead monsters you are a flagging and repulsive Sylvanas' leadership was accepted heartily and even a source of pride for Regent Lord Lor'themar until all reasonable and sane opinion could no longer justify her stance, and then he turned coat.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  8. #168
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    You wouldn't, but the from a void elf point of view, the void poses great danger, and great resources that need to be understood and harnessed to defend the world.
    And from Anakins point of view the jedi were the evil ones, and younglings needed to die.
    Their point of view doesn't matter too much since they are deranged and may decide that overdosing on ketamine and riding honda civic into crowd is a good idea at any point of time.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    You wouldn't, but the from a void elf point of view, the void poses great danger, and great resources that need to be understood and harnessed to defend the world.

    Expelling them from Quel'thlaas for studying and pushing that frontier would viewed as shortsighted and hypocritical given the other allowances they've made for fel and necromancy - while the void has higher priority than all of these because of it's danger and potential.

    They'd view taking safeguards to protect the Sunwell vicinity over expulsion as the correct0 decision ot make, but horde affiliations blindsiding them from what's the much bigger priority and threat - the alliance obsession of the horde is not shared in the other faction who seems to at least in general focus on larger threats only having to engage the horde because of its offensive.

    What I see is blizzard making enough reason for both void elves to prefer the alliance and blood elves not to want them. But I see most players are taking the blood elves side without question here. Fine, they have their preference, but, there is more to it, than oh the void is dangerous to the Sunwell, therefore it's okay to expel and disregard void elves while be okay with allying with forsaken, and San'layn and other such.

    And @Rhlor - the same blood elves joined the alliance because of those repulsive undead monsters you are a flagging and repulsive Sylvanas' leadership was accepted heartily and even a source of pride for Regent Lord Lor'themar until all reasonable and sane opinion could no longer justify her stance, and then he turned coat.
    the forsaken and sanlayn to continue being part of the horde would be forsaken, they are not part of the quelthalas society. lordaeron / forsaken are their own sovereign nation state and quelthalas is their own sovereign nation state, you understand right? what the forsaken do is up to the forsaken.

    and this is the point why all your thread is nonsense! you compare creatures that are part of quelthalas society and do not live in quelthalas with a group that lived in quelthalas and was part of quelthalas society and that endangered the sunwell! It was done to save the sunwell and from what we saw when alleria touched the sunwell it was a good idea.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    the forsaken and sanlayn to continue being part of the horde would be forsaken, they are not part of the quelthalas society. lordaeron / forsaken are their own sovereign nation state and quelthalas is their own sovereign nation state, you understand right? what the forsaken do is up to the forsaken.

    and this is the point why all your thread is nonsense! you compare creatures that are part of quelthalas society and do not live in quelthalas with a group that lived in quelthalas and was part of quelthalas society and that endangered the sunwell! It was done to save the sunwell and from what we saw when alleria touched the sunwell it was a good idea.
    Well, only until recently, no Horde nation was really sovereign. They all had to heed the call of Warchief, whatever it was and Sylvanas made it pretty clear that Horde is just arrows in her quiver.

    By being part of the Horde, gates of Silvermoon are opened to all its members, so these cannibalistic monsters are free to wander the city since TBC, as well as trolls, one of the greatest nemesis of Quel'thalas. Also being part of the Horde made blood elves directly complicit of genocide and other war crimes.

  11. #171
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    By being part of the Horde, gates of Silvermoon are opened to all its members, so these cannibalistic monsters are free to wander the city since TBC, as well as trolls, one of the greatest nemesis of Quel'thalas. Also being part of the Horde made blood elves directly complicit of genocide and other war crimes.
    but the Darkspears have no quarrel with Quel'thalas and the Amani are still enemies to them
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Horde's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  12. #172
    Dreadlord Krothar's Avatar
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    Becoming San'layn isn't a choice usually. San'layn also aren't dealing with the constant whispers of a all powerful entity bent on eradicating all life.

    Void Elves generally speaking chose to be corrupted by the Void. Void Elves are generally speaking also dealing with a constant call from the Void to do its bidding. Whilst powerful NPCs seem to deal with it well, not everyone is going to deal with it that well. Why would you want to risk someone randomly turning into into a Void entity?

    Do we even SEE Blood Elves and San'layn being amicable together outside of a military operation? Working with someone does not always mean you approve of them.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Well, only until recently, no Horde nation was really sovereign. They all had to heed the call of Warchief, whatever it was and Sylvanas made it pretty clear that Horde is just arrows in her quiver.

    By being part of the Horde, gates of Silvermoon are opened to all its members, so these cannibalistic monsters are free to wander the city since TBC, as well as trolls, one of the greatest nemesis of Quel'thalas. Also being part of the Horde made blood elves directly complicit of genocide and other war crimes.
    the darkspear are not amani there is a quest in tbc where you help a darkspear troll.the member states of the horde can do with their internal politics what they want as did the frostwolves who did not help the forsaken but were still part of the horde

  14. #174
    Blood elves are fine with a lot of people ,as long as they don't corrupt their sunwell .

    Guess what the void elves and their magic do ? They corrupt the sunwell by their mere presence .

    The blood elves told them to stop their bullshit . The void elves didn't stopped so they got kicked the fuck out .

    They should be happy they weren't executed on the spot for willingly becoming eldritch abominations that will ultimatly become crazy and want to destroy all existence .

    The barbaric troll , the canibalistic forsaken and the edgy sadistic san'layn are ok( if the san'layn ever put foot in silvermoon in the first place) , as long as they don't create problems in silvermoon or mess with the sunwell . So far , they didn't . So they are tolerated, unlike the void elves who have threatened the very livehood of the blood elves and REFUSED to stop .
    Last edited by naeblis495; 2020-09-24 at 11:57 AM.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Yes, and I acknowledged that too, hence why I explained why banishing them was foolish. They could've kept them in Silvermoon under strict surveillance, perhaps by using a magic nullification shield (the same one used in Stormwind stockades to restrain Thalyssra).
    Which clearly worked VERY well because Thalyssra is totally still captive in Stormwind and didn't get away right?

    ... Right?

    If you want someone away from a place, you don't give them a room near said place and say "Now don't you go to that place or I'll be very cross with you." Literally just Alleria TOUCHING the Sunwell was enough to give the Void access to, and nearly corrupt, the Sunwell. Rommath doesn't have the blessing of foresight to know for certain that no Void Elf will ever want to be near the Sunwell, and knows he can't have a repeat of the situation with Alleria - Let alone with an Elf that's ACTUALLY WILLING to corrupt the Sunwell. This alone CANNOT happen. There can be NO potential threat of this nature in the Blood Elven society.

    That is why they were exiled. Fel magic didn't cause such a thing, hence why Blood Elves were ok with it. They aren't adverse to dangerous magic - They're even playing with the Anima (No, not the stuff in Shadowlands, the OLD Anima, the stuff from Throne of Thunder) that created the Saurok that no one else has dared touch.

    Little did anyone know, threaten the holy relic of an entire society, and you find yourself exiled from said society. Whodathunk, right?
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2020-09-24 at 11:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Krothar View Post
    Becoming San'layn isn't a choice usually. San'layn also aren't dealing with the constant whispers of a all powerful entity bent on eradicating all life.

    Void Elves generally speaking chose to be corrupted by the Void. Void Elves are generally speaking also dealing with a constant call from the Void to do its bidding. Whilst powerful NPCs seem to deal with it well, not everyone is going to deal with it that well. Why would you want to risk someone randomly turning into into a Void entity?

    Do we even SEE Blood Elves and San'layn being amicable together outside of a military operation? Working with someone does not always mean you approve of them.
    No, we don't. We only see San'layn during the Alliance war campaign and always working alone. Which makes this entire thread ridiculous. The sin'dorei didn't even know Sylvanas hired the San'layn.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Which clearly worked VERY well because Thalyssra is totally still captive in Stormwind and didn't get away right?

    ... Right?

    If you want someone away from a place, you don't give them a room near said place and say "Now don't you go to that place or I'll be very cross with you." Literally just Alleria TOUCHING the Sunwell was enough to give the Void access to, and nearly corrupt, the Sunwell. Rommath doesn't have the blessing of foresight to know for certain that no Void Elf will ever want to be near the Sunwell, and knows he can't have a repeat of the situation with Alleria - Let alone with an Elf that's ACTUALLY WILLING to corrupt the Sunwell. This alone CANNOT happen. There can be NO potential threat of this nature in the Blood Elven society.

    That is why they were exiled. Fel magic didn't cause such a thing, hence why Blood Elves were ok with it. They aren't adverse to dangerous magic - They're even playing with the Anima (No, not the stuff in Shadowlands, the OLD Anima, the stuff from Throne of Thunder) that created the Saurok that no one else has dared touch.

    Little did anyone know, threaten the holy relic of an entire society, and you find yourself exiled from said society. Whodathunk, right?
    It didn't work because the player character was inside it. Simple as that.

    Let alone the fact that between the Sunwell and Silvermoon there is an entire body of sea as well as a huge fortress.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Krothar View Post
    Becoming San'layn isn't a choice usually. San'layn also aren't dealing with the constant whispers of a all powerful entity bent on eradicating all life.

    Void Elves generally speaking chose to be corrupted by the Void. Void Elves are generally speaking also dealing with a constant call from the Void to do its bidding. Whilst powerful NPCs seem to deal with it well, not everyone is going to deal with it that well. Why would you want to risk someone randomly turning into into a Void entity?

    Do we even SEE Blood Elves and San'layn being amicable together outside of a military operation? Working with someone does not always mean you approve of them.
    Well, Umbric's group did not chose to become void elves either, their transformation was forced upon them and it was meant to change them into ethereals. That ritual was stopped half-way by Alleria and PC, and these elves were liberated from ethereals. It is more similar to becoming Undead than you think. It is also established that void elves find out how to defy and resist whispers.

    I agree with the rest. Blood elves being suspicious towards void elves is logical, as well as being able to work with San'layn if needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Which clearly worked VERY well because Thalyssra is totally still captive in Stormwind and didn't get away right?

    ... Right?

    If you want someone away from a place, you don't give them a room near said place and say "Now don't you go to that place or I'll be very cross with you." Literally just Alleria TOUCHING the Sunwell was enough to give the Void access to, and nearly corrupt, the Sunwell. Rommath doesn't have the blessing of foresight to know for certain that no Void Elf will ever want to be near the Sunwell, and knows he can't have a repeat of the situation with Alleria - Let alone with an Elf that's ACTUALLY WILLING to corrupt the Sunwell. This alone CANNOT happen. There can be NO potential threat of this nature in the Blood Elven society.

    That is why they were exiled. Fel magic didn't cause such a thing, hence why Blood Elves were ok with it. They aren't adverse to dangerous magic - They're even playing with the Anima (No, not the stuff in Shadowlands, the OLD Anima, the stuff from Throne of Thunder) that created the Saurok that no one else has dared touch.

    Little did anyone know, threaten the holy relic of an entire society, and you find yourself exiled from said society. Whodathunk, right?
    To be honest, I think Fel would damage Sunwell too, but we have not seen it happen yet. Fel is a weapon of ultimate destruction, so I believe pouring Fel into Sunwell would be pretty bad. We've already seen Sunwell being tainted by necromantic powers, so in your logic, all warlocks, DKs and priests should be exiled as well because they pose threat to Sunwell. You simply don't know when some of these elves decide to corrupt Sunwell with their corruptive powers.

    Exiling them also means almost nothing. If these individuals want to corrupt/destroy Sunwell, they will find their own way to at least attempt to do so. Void elves are known for their ability to travel through void portals, so I guess it's not that great issue if they reside in Silvermoon or Stormwind if they ever decide to strike on Sunwell.

    As we've seen, blood elves are now just unprepared for any void related crisis, because they exiled the only people with relevant information of the void. I understand why they were not happy about them, but void elves are not the only threat to Sunwell.
    Last edited by Vaedan; 2020-09-24 at 01:59 PM.

  19. #179
    The Patient BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    They are hypocrites and murderous scums, are you forgetting how much the blood elves enjoyed killing Night Elf civilians during the genocide?

    "Ohhh no no no.. this one is my prey...." while killing the flower shop owner..... there is your logic.
    Moderators on this site are, to put it nicely, morons. They believe any opinion contrary to popular ones are either trolling or flaming or baiting. They can not comprehend the fact that there can be people who would utterly detest what they like or million others like. Well, it is their site and their "Authoretaeh" but they are morons nonetheless.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Well, Umbric's group did not chose to become void elves either, their transformation was forced upon them and it was meant to change them into ethereals. That ritual was stopped half-way by Alleria and PC, and these elves were liberated from ethereals. It is more similar to becoming Undead than you think. It is also established that void elves find out how to defy and resist whispers.

    I agree with the rest. Blood elves being suspicious towards void elves is logical, as well as being able to work with San'layn if needed.



    To be honest, I think Fel would damage Sunwell too, but we have not seen it happen yet. Fel is a weapon of ultimate destruction, so I believe pouring Fel into Sunwell would be pretty bad. We've already seen Sunwell being tainted by necromantic powers, so in your logic, all warlocks, DKs and priests should be exiled as well because they pose threat to Sunwell. You simply don't know when some of these elves decide to corrupt Sunwell with their corruptive powers.

    Exiling them also means almost nothing. If these individuals want to corrupt/destroy Sunwell, they will find their own way to at least attempt to do so. Void elves are known for their ability to travel through void portals, so I guess it's not that great issue if they reside in Silvermoon or Stormwind if they ever decide to strike on Sunwell.

    As we've seen, blood elves are now just unprepared for any void related crisis, because they exiled the only people with relevant information of the void. I understand why they were not happy about them, but void elves are not the only threat to Sunwell.
    but a clarification must be made in the short period in which the sanlayn joined the forsaken they never worked with any blood elf

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