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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    No you are NOT guaranteed loot. I don't know where the fuck you're getting that information. Without bonus loot, you are far more likely to get absolutely NOTHING from a raid each week or getting a piece of gear from a boss you didn't need anything from. Bonus rolls let you target a boss' loot pool. You literally have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
    He is talking about the weekly chest which now also will be impacted by raiding. So if you just kill one raid boss and nothing else you will as minimum get 1 piece of loot every week (the one from the weekly chest).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
    You haven't addressed any of my points, other than the loot scarcity issue (thanks for the blue post).

    How is 10x30 minutes not longer than 3 hours (180 minutes)? This is basic maths. They are not playing the game more than me, I am playing far more than them and coming out with less (yes, I might get 1 more piece, but it is of vastly reduced quality). At the moment, as I said, 3-6 runs a week is enough to keep the gap to a respectable minimum. Yes, I could knock it down to 4 dungeons for only 2 items at the end of the week in the vault, but that then comes with the very real chance of getting nothing from the clears themselves, and, in future weeks of the vault, getting duplicates with my very limited choices. If I drop to 4 M+ dungeons a week, then I am spending a bit less time in that activity, but I won't be able to compare with someone getting 10 chances at loot over a 3 hour period. I say again: I am not against harder content rewarding better gear, but the famine element is going a bit too far. Remember, World Quests and Callings will not reward gear, which were a vital source of "keeping up" in Legion & BfA. A huge chunk of the alternate paths are gone, and the few that remain are diminished.
    First of all, I’m tired of you saying “10 chances of loot per raid” and implying that raiders are going to be showered in gear when we just made it clear that loot will be scarce ALSO in raids. People will max get 2 pieces of loot over the entire raid. Your argument is not very good if you keep having to twist the truth to fit your agenda.

    Secondly you are describing your guild as players who are able to faceroll the heroic raid in 3 hours the first week? If they can do that then you should also be able to faceroll +15 keys. Otherwise you are beneath their level.

    Thirdly, yes 10 dungeons might take a bit more time to do than to clear the raid if we are assuming that they can do it in 3 hours (They most likely spend more than 3 hours in the beginning). But you will also get a better weekly item than them. And the weekly item will be the primary source of gearing like Blizzard said.

    You also said that your item will be of “vastly reduced quality” which is also exaggerated. If you do +10s you’ll get 204 gear and +15s 210. Neither of this is vastly reduced quality compared to the 213 ilvl you get from heroic. If your goal is to be able to jump in and raid with your when you have time (which you stated in the beginning that it was) then you’ll be completely fine. You’re maybe going to be a few ilvls behind overall but that is not going to be a problem at all.

    I do get your point but it is based on twisted assumptions. Overall you will be able to be very decently geared just by doing dungeons and you will definitely be able to raid with your friends. Saying that you’re not is just being overdramatic. Of course you will limit yourself a bit if all you do is 4 dungeons per week but don’t assume that the raiders will get many pieces of loot by clearing the raid. Because they wont. Loot will be more scarce and that is how Blizzard design Shadowlands. Getting 1-2 pieces of useful loot every week will probably be the norm. You have nothing to worry about.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    He is talking about the weekly chest which now also will be impacted by raiding. So if you just kill one raid boss and nothing else you will as minimum get 1 piece of loot every week (the one from the weekly chest).

    - - - Updated - - -



    First of all, I’m tired of you saying “10 chances of loot per raid” and implying that raiders are going to be showered in gear when we just made it clear that loot will be scarce ALSO in raids. People will max get 2 pieces of loot over the entire raid. Your argument is not very good if you keep having to twist the truth to fit your agenda.

    Secondly you are describing your guild as players who are able to faceroll the heroic raid in 3 hours the first week? If they can do that then you should also be able to faceroll +15 keys. Otherwise you are beneath their level.

    Thirdly, yes 10 dungeons might take a bit more time to do than to clear the raid if we are assuming that they can do it in 3 hours (They most likely spend more than 3 hours in the beginning). But you will also get a better weekly item than them. And the weekly item will be the primary source of gearing like Blizzard said.

    You also said that your item will be of “vastly reduced quality” which is also exaggerated. If you do +10s you’ll get 204 gear and +15s 210. Neither of this is vastly reduced quality compared to the 213 ilvl you get from heroic. If your goal is to be able to jump in and raid with your when you have time (which you stated in the beginning that it was) then you’ll be completely fine. You’re maybe going to be a few ilvls behind overall but that is not going to be a problem at all.

    I do get your point but it is based on twisted assumptions. Overall you will be able to be very decently geared just by doing dungeons and you will definitely be able to raid with your friends. Saying that you’re not is just being overdramatic. Of course you will limit yourself a bit if all you do is 4 dungeons per week but don’t assume that the raiders will get many pieces of loot by clearing the raid. Because they wont. Loot will be more scarce and that is how Blizzard design Shadowlands. Getting 1-2 pieces of useful loot every week will probably be the norm. You have nothing to worry about.
    But it will be an item from the raid's entire loot pool which means you have a high chance of getting an item you don't need. Bonus rolls let you target loot from a specific boss.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    But it will be an item from the raid's entire loot pool which means you have a high chance of getting an item you don't need. Bonus rolls let you target loot from a specific boss.
    I agree. All I’m saying is that he is technically right about the one guaranteed piece of loot.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I agree. All I’m saying is that he is technically right about the one guaranteed piece of loot.
    Do we even know if LFR counts? Because if it doesn't, this new system severely punishes casual players as not only are they losing bonus rolls but they also won't benefit from the weekly chest.

  5. #285
    This is so much better. Nothing like spending resources on bonus rolls to get Gold 5x a week.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Do we even know if LFR counts? Because if it doesn't, this new system severely punishes casual players as not only are they losing bonus rolls but they also won't benefit from the weekly chest.
    I would be surprised if LFR didn’t count.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I would be surprised if LFR didn’t count.
    With how much elitists whine about LFR, I wouldn't be surprised.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    With how much elitists whine about LFR, I wouldn't be surprised.
    I see mostly casuals whining this time around... better yet, the term casual got redefined as someone who does not want to praticipate in any activity at all in this game and yet wants to get the same gear as the top mythic+/raid/pvp players for some reason

    You don't want to play but also want to get the purplz.

    And yes. The Weekly Chest does not specify difficulty. Just don't expect a mythic piece of loot if you only kill a few LFR bosses a week.

  9. #289
    less loot, but with more loot that actually matters good change!

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post

    There is literally nothing suggesting that the RNG will get better. This change actually makes it WORSE. With bonus rolls you had two chances at gear, therefore you had a much bigger chance at getting gear you wanted from a boss. Taking that away makes RNG feel even more terrible when your one chance every week continues to fuck you over.
    The thing about using the word "literally" and emphasizing words with caps is that they in no way make your statement truer than it is. :P In answer to various false guesses such as yours my lovely guildmate did the following model:

    The setting: we are looking for how many weeks it will take for a character to fill up all its gear slots only using the M+ chest. The chest currently gives a choice of three items (compared to BfAs one item) of Mythic Raid ilvl. We assume that the type of items are selected randomly.
    What we simulate: the number of weeks needed to acquire at least one item for each slot from the M+ chest. For each set of choices (1 choice per week, 2 choices per week and 3 choices per week) 100,000 simulations, each corresponding to one character's gearing path, were run.
    Results: If we suppose that three choices are given each week, on average it would take 23.1 weeks (std = 5.3 weeks) to cover all slots. If we suppose that two choices are given each week, the average is 29.4 (std = 8.3 weeks). Finally, getting one choice per week (current BfA system) would take on average 49.8 weeks (std = 17.5 weeks).
    I have provided histograms below for each case to give a clearer picture. To sum up, the multiple choices provided greatly speed up gearing compared to BfA even if you only use M+ dungeons to do it -- which is good thing for most players. The effect is pronounced even if you don't run too many M+ dungeons -- running 4 of them already gives a choice of two items which greatly speeds up gearing.

    Finally can also add that naturally, the fewer the choices, the higher the variation (standard deviation) of the number of weeks required.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    The thing about using the word "literally" and emphasizing words with caps is that they in no way make your statement truer than it is. :P In answer to various false guesses such as yours my lovely guildmate did the following model:

    The setting: we are looking for how many weeks it will take for a character to fill up all its gear slots only using the M+ chest. The chest currently gives a choice of three items (compared to BfAs one item) of Mythic Raid ilvl. We assume that the type of items are selected randomly.
    What we simulate: the number of weeks needed to acquire at least one item for each slot from the M+ chest. For each set of choices (1 choice per week, 2 choices per week and 3 choices per week) 100,000 simulations, each corresponding to one character's gearing path, were run.
    Results: If we suppose that three choices are given each week, on average it would take 23.1 weeks (std = 5.3 weeks) to cover all slots. If we suppose that two choices are given each week, the average is 29.4 (std = 8.3 weeks). Finally, getting one choice per week (current BfA system) would take on average 49.8 weeks (std = 17.5 weeks).
    I have provided histograms below for each case to give a clearer picture. To sum up, the multiple choices provided greatly speed up gearing compared to BfA even if you only use M+ dungeons to do it -- which is good thing for most players. The effect is pronounced even if you don't run too many M+ dungeons -- running 4 of them already gives a choice of two items which greatly speeds up gearing.

    Finally can also add that naturally, the fewer the choices, the higher the variation (standard deviation) of the number of weeks required.
    Here is what you are not taking into account: the weekly chest will offer gear from the entire loot pool, increasing your chances to get doubles or items you simply don't need. Bonus rolls allowed you to target specific boss pools, therefore reducing RNG when it comes to getting your BiS gear. Your graphs there ignore that factor and therefore becomes invalid when it comes to the importance of bonus rolls.

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