If We're Going Back to Level 60, Why not Bring Back Talent Trees?

[Matthias]

I mean part of the reason they were scrapped and/or rehashed was because the amount of talent points became bloated by level 80.

It seems like the route Blizz is going is to just perpetually keep us at level 60. Which I'm fine with. But instead of all this borrowed power stuff, why not just give us back our talent trees and improve on them. They're far more exciting when leveling. And Blizzard can perhaps introduce "talent pages" for when we need to quickly respec (no mis allocating points accidently).

They can keep the current PvP Talents to compliment the actual Talent Trees. Thoughts?

[shise]

I´m all in for old talent trees, then at least you have more choice.

I would go as far as:

Keep the current talents for extra spells/powers and CDs.

Bring the old talent trees for enhancing. This combo would allow us to have several possible specs. It would not matter all that much with balancing classes as it would be the same but keeping all the powers instead of borrowing them.

[Hellobolis]

any ideas on how to not make them bloated if you want to keep even half the talent choices we have currently?

[Artale]

Current talents offer more meaningful™ choices depending on the situation.

[vashe9]

I dont care about choices, do you see all this conduits/souldbind clusterF ? Bring back MoP simple talents + classes set. It's enough, all these layers add NOTHINGbecause there is always ONE and ONLY ONE cookie cutter build for each spec.

I'm playing this game since vanilla beta and I dont get why "meaningful choices" are a positive point... do you remember how people were happy when they announced you could respec talents for only a few gold instead of the price of a mount ?

Almost everyone will only level from 50 to 60 with their main. Adding 1% more crit from 54 to 55 doesn't really seem really "exciting".
You level then you just forget about it for a while....

FF14 doesn't have talents trees or EVEN SPECS.

[Azerate]

Old talent trees are bad and Classic has proven that beyond doubt.

90% of the tree is pointless trash like +1 str, and then the rest are mandatory things you have to take to perform well. Old talent trees bring nothing positive in and just confuse the newbies. Oh, and the "choice" is also much more real now because you often find yourself switching between movement abilities in the new talent rows. Back with the trees 99,99% of people were just running with the same stuff.

It was an illusion of choice, not actual choice.

[Nynax]

Personal Opinion:

The old talent trees are still trash. Between playing Classic and Retail I find that having a set of abilities to choose between and swap around is way more fun. Oh not to mention that the retail talent trees allow for specs to be as unique as they are. Remember that you choose a spec and then you get talents. The old model you choose a spec with the talents.

I just was never excited spending talent points in Classic except for literally two times per tree when you actually get something special. All the fun was in leveling up to new abilities, which is not much different from retail.

[vashe9]

We'll still end up with THE build for PvE and THE build for PvP.

Glad I'm not pretending to be in the 1% that everyone here professes to be, can just pick whatever sounds cool and/or fun for pottering about stabbing stuff.

You dont need to be in the 1% to actually want to min max your character. Damnit, I Min max even in SOLO games (solo!!! I repeat, SOLO), some people like that.... And most of people in my guild are like that, we're NOT hardcore at all... You're just spewing non-sense, every number matters for everyone, not just the famous "1%".
In JRPG's, when I'm done I always try to make a godlike party.

[Pum]

I´m all in for old talent trees, then at least you have more choice.

I would go as far as:

Keep the current talents for extra spells/powers and CDs.

Bring the old talent trees for enhancing. This combo would allow us to have several possible specs. It would not matter all that much with balancing classes as it would be the same but keeping all the powers instead of borrowing them.

why do people still try to justify classic talent trees as meaningful choices, you literally could not get more cookie cutter if you try, there is no wiggle room.

new talent trees are much better and always will be, as different content will demand different abilities, and with these you have the choice to rise to whatever occasion. plus, nearly every single talent in the old talent trees was just 'enhance X', and gain a new ability. wow, so much choice and decision-making!!

[vashe9]

Personal Opinion:

The old talent trees are still trash. Between playing Classic and Retail I find that having a set of abilities to choose between and swap around is way more fun. Oh not to mention that the retail talent trees allow for specs to be as unique as they are. Remember that you choose a spec and then you get talents. The old model you choose a spec with the talents.

I just was never excited spending talent points in Classic except for literally two times per tree when you actually get something special. All the fun was in leveling up to new abilities, which is not much different from retail.

Yep totally this; I dont get why people say it's more exciting than retail talents

this makes me remember a paladin from woltk with random points in the 3 specs (like 20/20/21). His justification was "to be able to do everything" => he just sucked in every role of course... so much for choices

[LordVargK]

The reversal to 60 made old Talent Trees even more unnecessary. With 120 levels you could argue that they would reward leveling by giving you a point every level or two. Now you don't need those rewards anymore, hence we stay at new talent rows. But, Anima progression is your friend, since it pretty much works exactly like old talent trees, just not bound to character level.

[bloodwulf]

Old talent trees gave the illusion of choice. You spent 90% of your points exactly the same as everyone else, and your last bit of points went to boring stats like Hit % or Crit %.

I'd rather have the current system where i can sacrifice 1-2% damage and take a talent that is passive so i can focus on mechanics of the fight more, then on easier fights switch back to the more active playstyle.

TLR Old talent system = less choice.

[TheRevenantHero]

Talent trees gave the illusion of choice because you get to press more buttons. In reality, the trees were bloated and most talents were incredibly underwhelming. A 1% damage increase to one spell? OH BOY. Also, there was only one proper build to use for your class and if you didn't follow that build then you were just gimping yourself.

[scubi666stacy]

Because talent trees are an outdated concept full of unnecessary bloat. I prefer the current talent system, thank you very much.
Current talents really do something, like modifying your existing spells, not just putting some +1% here and there (adding new abilities aside, you have this in both versions).
When LOTRO switched from their original talent system to talent trees, I stopped playing that game.

[A Chozo]

They are pointless. Current talent tree is almost like the old one without all the extra, irrelevant steps. And the little boring passives are baked into Artifact Traits / Azerite Traits / Soulbinds.

[vashe9]

They shouldn't focus on numbers and "choices" in talent trees. Gameplay choices (aka mechanics) are the core of this game. If you are a perfect calculator who can immediately see which talent is good or not, it doesn't make you a good wow player... but if you follow the right guides you can "get gud" without doing these "choices" yourself...

Really, I dont see the point of talent trees with boring +stats

[VinceVega]

I mean part of the reason they were scrapped and/or rehashed was because the amount of talent points became bloated by level 80.

It seems like the route Blizz is going is to just perpetually keep us at level 60. Which I'm fine with. But instead of all this borrowed power stuff, why not just give us back our talent trees and improve on them. They're far more exciting when leveling. And Blizzard can perhaps introduce "talent pages" for when we need to quickly respec (no mis allocating points accidently).

They can keep the current PvP Talents to compliment the actual Talent Trees. Thoughts?

Because they are boring as hell.... and incredibly static.
Right now most specs have different ways to go for different situation at least.

[Adramelch]

But, Anima progression is your friend, since it pretty much works exactly like old talent trees, just not bound to character level.

Sadly yet another borrowed power system, which Blizzard have fallen in love with as of late.

[Coldkil]

+1 to the "old trees were mostly small stats increases to get the cookie-cutter talents". The problem is exactly that, by just baking in the passives into the classes themselves and leaving only the real talents, you see now how in fact no choice was really involved.

I like the structure of old trees though. It gives you a feeling of progressing to something that's much better than "unlock this tier at level X". It generally gives a sensation of something more structured and consistent. I really don't like the new talent sheet.

Anyway, my main issue is that most talents in the game are shit. Some of them are straight broken/useless. Way too many are good per se but there's a blatant winner in the tier so you're gonna get that in every single occasion. Many are just mixed up, like one for aoe, one for st, one utility that is just bogus - it should be a very clear separation in tiers, one for aoe, one for utility, one for st, etc.

Choices are made by giving players comparable options. Right now, it's non-existent and the few occasion it happens is because all three options are marginal at best, so the entire row could just be removed with no effect whatsoever.

[dcc626]

I´m all in for old talent trees, then at least you have more choice.

I would go as far as:

Keep the current talents for extra spells/powers and CDs.

Bring the old talent trees for enhancing. This combo would allow us to have several possible specs. It would not matter all that much with balancing classes as it would be the same but keeping all the powers instead of borrowing them.

in an age where nobody likes to make actual decisions, old talent trees would be nothing but cookie cutter specs anyway. especially when people chesk these things constantly.

i dont care either way, but dont pretend spending 5 points in extra crit was engaging gameplay either.

- - - Updated - - -

any ideas on how to not make them bloated if you want to keep even half the talent choices we have currently?

thats the thing. people want what we have now replaced. although there are some who never want anything to be taken away and new things to be constantly added.

which would cause even more bloat and problems with balance. yes, more than we have now.

the game isnt balanceable, and adding more and more on top of things. more classes, more specs. its just not something that can happen.

people dont care, because they will just flock to whatever is best atm.