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  1. #241
    I hope this works out and in the future are successful enough to buy back all of Blizzards IP

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Did you actually read my post?

    I said that's a possibility, but that doesn't mean Morhaime was on board with every decision the company made within the last 10 years.

    1. I already addressed this topic in a previous post
    2. The very post you're quoting has virtually nothing to do with how the merge went down, so that reply is completely offtopic

    Are you just replying for the sake of saying "you're wrong"? Because that's how it feels like.
    Your entire argument, the way I see it, hinges on the idea of "Morhaime can say 'no'" and implying he will say 'no', and using the claim that "he had no say in the Activision-Blizzard merger" as support for your argument that Morhaime would not let his company be bought out by anyone or any other company.

    To which I responded by saying that's not how it works. Morhaime can say "yes" just as much as he can say "no". I also pointed out that he's not a "paragon of virtue" to never let his company be bought out. And then we have this where you use his words to back up your argument:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    However, you don't need to have psychic powers to read between the lines here, the very name of the company is an indirect signal towards major gaming publishers, which without a doubt also includes Activision.
    To which I respond with: how do you know he's not just virtue-signaling?
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  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Your entire argument, the way I see it, hinges on the idea of "Morhaime can say 'no'" and implying he will say 'no'
    No, i said he can say no, that is not a guarantee that he will say no.
    I know the difference between "can" and "will", which you seemingly don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I also pointed out that he's not a "paragon of virtue" to never let his company be bought out.
    How should he prevent something he has no say in?

    You take the fact that Kotick and Morhaime talked to each other as some proof that he somehow approved the whole thing, maybe he was trying to get Blizzard into a better position or whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    To which I respond with: how do you know he's not just virtue-signaling?
    I could ask you where your certainty comes that he will sell the company if they are successful.

    As a reminder, this is your original post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And if they prove successful, they'll be bought by a bigger company, and the cycle will repeat, ironically enough.
    No "he might sell the company", just straight Dreamhaven successful = Morhaime sells the company.

    And before you ask me where i get the certainty (Which is a dubious statement at best, as i merely said he has the ability to say "no"), you should explain yours.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    No, i said he can say no, that is not a guarantee that he will say no.
    I know the difference between "can" and "will", which you seemingly don't.
    So your argument is meaningless. Because Morhaime can also say "yes". He can also give his new company to EA for free. He can also be a worse leader than Kotick.

    How should he prevent something he has no say in?
    I never said anything about he "preventing something he has no say in".

    You take the fact that Kotick and Morhaime talked to each other as some proof that he somehow approved the whole thing, maybe he was trying to get Blizzard into a better position or whatever.
    So, first you say that this is "something he had no say in it", and now you're saying he did have some say in it? What is it? Can't be both.

    I could ask you where your certainty comes that he will sell the company if they are successful.
    So you're evading the question?

    As a reminder, this is your original post.


    No "he might sell the company", just straight Dreamhaven successful = Morhaime sells the company.

    And before you ask me where i get the certainty (Which is a dubious statement at best, as i merely said he has the ability to say "no"), you should explain yours.
    Funny how you accuse me of "not knowing the difference between two terms" and yet you commit the same mistake you accuse me of. I never said "Morhaime sells the company". I said "the company will be bought". Who knows if Morhaime will still be chief by then. And also, my statement is backed by history: all those other game companies and publishers being bought out throughout history. Hell, Microsoft just bought Bethesda and Zenimax.
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  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by zolfare View Post
    So you were there? You saw every decision he made and therefore have some kind of inside knowledge as to how Blizzard got swallowed by Activision that was a direct result of what Mike did? I mean, the only thing that guy ever truly did (before Activision bought out Blizzard) was try to build the best possible games he could. He did that with Frank and Allen.
    It's public record that Morhaime advised Kotick on the merger and used their connections in China to sweeten the deal.

    Now, I've heard nothing but nice things said about Mike: he's a good guy, down to earth, cares about games, boosts morale, championed customer support, etc., and I'm sure that's all true. We can only speculate about his intentions for pushing for the merger. Maybe it was naive and short-sighted, maybe not. It certainly happened during a period when Blizzard was attempting to grow beyond the shadow of World of Warcraft and regain the agility needed to keep up with trends rather than play catch up with other studios.

    Regardless, the end result is that the Activision board became the controlling interest in Blizzard Entertainment. For a long time Blizzard Entertainment clearly operated with almost total independence, but at this point I think it's hard to deny that Activision has eroded their autonomy over the years. The failure of Project Titan was probably the biggest factor, but frankly, Blizzard has missed many opportunities to capitalize on their IPs, despite having strong (initial) success with the likes of Hearthstone and Overwatch. If you look at the current gaming landscape, they are pretty much getting left in the dust by Riot and Epic. Between that and the loss of some crucial leaders, I just don't think Blizzard has the leverage they once held when it comes to how the company is run.

    From the way Morhaime talks in the press release and interviews, it really sounds like he has some regret over that loss of control. Hopefully he doesn't make the same mistake again.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    He can also give his new company to EA for free. He can also be a worse leader than Kotick.
    Is this really an argument i'm supposed to entertain?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I never said anything about he "preventing something he has no say in".
    the sentence:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I also pointed out that he's not a "paragon of virtue" to never let his company be bought out.
    Implies that you assume he had some sort of choice in the matter, which he quite frankly never had, he could only make the best out of the situation.
    If it's not within his power to stop something, you can't really hold it against him that didn't stop that.

    Unless you hold it against him that he didn't outright quit, which wouldn't have changed the course of Blizzard in that aspect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So, first you say that this is "something he had no say in it", and now you're saying he did have some say in it? What is it? Can't be both.
    If a major shift in power is about to take place within the company, it's pretty natural that people try to play nice with the new bosses and not make some futile attempt to stonewall them without having any power to actually stop them taking over.

    This Business & Politics 1x1, it doesn't mean Morhaime had any power stop or prevent it, he might have tried to make the best out of the situation for Blizzard by trying to get some acknowledgement of independence from Kotick for Blizzard.

    After all, Kotick and Co. could've just sold out Blizzard IP's, like they did with other companies they acquired.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I said "the company will be bought". Who knows if Morhaime will still be chief by then.
    Seems like a massive fatalist stance, like saying "Who cares about life, i'll die someday anyway".

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelmurc View Post
    I hope this works out and in the future are successful enough to buy back all of Blizzards IP
    Looking at their website, at least for now, it looks like their goal is to stay small and agile, not grow into a big AAA studio.

    Of course that could all change the moment they release a hit game, if that's what happens.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Well he certainly has the PR speech still down, because that is all this amounts to for now and it is an easy sentiment to get positive attention in the gaming space. But I doubt he will be able to make games with just dreams and unicorn farts. .
    He co-founded Blizzard and created the most successful MMO of all time with FAR less than he has now lol. He didn't even "unicorn farts" back then. I don't doubt him at all.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    It's public record that Morhaime advised Kotick on the merger and used their connections in China to sweeten the deal.

    Now, I've heard nothing but nice things said about Mike: he's a good guy, down to earth, cares about games, boosts morale, championed customer support, etc., and I'm sure that's all true. We can only speculate about his intentions for pushing for the merger. Maybe it was naive and short-sighted, maybe not. It certainly happened during a period when Blizzard was attempting to grow beyond the shadow of World of Warcraft and regain the agility needed to keep up with trends rather than play catch up with other studios.

    Regardless, the end result is that the Activision board became the controlling interest in Blizzard Entertainment. For a long time Blizzard Entertainment clearly operated with almost total independence, but at this point I think it's hard to deny that Activision has eroded their autonomy over the years. The failure of Project Titan was probably the biggest factor, but frankly, Blizzard has missed many opportunities to capitalize on their IPs, despite having strong (initial) success with the likes of Hearthstone and Overwatch. If you look at the current gaming landscape, they are pretty much getting left in the dust by Riot and Epic. Between that and the loss of some crucial leaders, I just don't think Blizzard has the leverage they once held when it comes to how the company is run.

    From the way Morhaime talks in the press release and interviews, it really sounds like he has some regret over that loss of control. Hopefully he doesn't make the same mistake again.
    I keep harping on about this but the big change seemed to come when Acti-Blizz became independent from Vivendi SA. As a parent company Vivendi was huge and quite content to indulge one of their minor components that would regularly shit out golden eggs. As a larger slice of a much smaller pie Blizzard found itself under a lot more pressure from investors expecting steady returns and this seems to be when a more "Activision-like" corporate culture was instilled.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Is this really an argument i'm supposed to entertain?
    You're the one using "he can do this" as an argument.

    the sentence:

    Implies that you assume he had some sort of choice in the matter, which he quite frankly never had, he could only make the best out of the situation.
    If it's not within his power to stop something, you can't really hold it against him that didn't stop that.

    Unless you hold it against him that he didn't outright quit, which wouldn't have changed the course of Blizzard in that aspect.
    Again, I never said anything about Morhaime "preventing something he had no say in". I simply pointed out the fact that Morhaime may not have been against the merge in the first place.

    If a major shift in power is about to take place within the company, it's pretty natural that people try to play nice with the new bosses and not make some futile attempt to stonewall them without having any power to actually stop them taking over.
    Considering that Morhaime was apparently the pivotal opinion that swayed Kotick to go through with the merge, I'd say Morhaime had quite the say in this. He could have just, like you said, "stonewalled" Kotick, which would mean Activision would not merge with Vivendi, and "Activision-Blizzard" would not have happened...

    After all, Kotick and Co. could've just sold out Blizzard IP's, like they did with other companies they acquired.
    More meaningless arguments. What he "could do" is meaningless. Because Vivendi, who was the majority shareholder, could also have sold all of Activision's IPs, too. Not to mention that the whole point of the merge was because Activision wanted to get their hands on World of Warcraft.

    Seems like a massive fatalist stance, like saying "Who cares about life, i'll die someday anyway".
    No, it's nowhere near "fatalist". It would be "fatalist" if I said "and then his company will inevitably fail and close".
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  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You're the one using "he can do this" as an argument.
    Arguments like these just further confirm what i assume, you just want to argue and disagree for the sake of it.

    When someone tells me "oh he could also do something utterly retarded or outlandish, because you said he can do something" and somehow sees this as a valid argument, then i don't know what else you're doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I simply pointed out the fact that Morhaime may not have been against the merge in the first place.
    Again, possible, but leaves out that what He and Kotick discussed.

    I doubt He and Morhaime never discussed the fate of Blizzard in that circumstance and if they did, Kotick most likely didn't tell him "i'm going to tell you when to release games, no matter the state they're in".
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Considering that Morhaime was apparently the pivotal opinion that swayed Kotick to go through with the merge, I'd say Morhaime had quite the say in this. He could have just, like you said, "stonewalled" Kotick, which would mean Activision would not merge with Vivendi, and "Activision-Blizzard" would not have happened...
    And what he would have gained from it?

    Kotick wanted to get WoW, he'd get it somehow, imagine a scenario where Morhaime told told to to fuck off and then Kotick would have signed the Warcraft IP (or Blizzard itself) over someone else after the merger, because the current Blizzard leadership wasn't coorparative.
    Trying to downplay the success to WoW or even attempting to manipulate Kotick by feeding his concerns is something that can easily backfire.

    Morhaime was not in a position of power at that point, especially because we don't know what Vivendi was up to at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    More meaningless arguments. What he "could do" is meaningless. Because Vivendi, who was the majority shareholder, could also have sold all of Activision's IPs, too. Not to mention that the whole point of the merge was because Activision wanted to get their hands on World of Warcraft.
    I don't think someone who wants to stretch the meaning of "can" to the point "yeah, Morhaime can also give his company to a publisher for free" should talk about "meaningless arguments".
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No, it's nowhere near "fatalist". It would be "fatalist" if I said "and then his company will inevitably fail and close".
    Fatalism is not the same thing as pessimism.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I keep harping on about this but the big change seemed to come when Acti-Blizz became independent from Vivendi SA. As a parent company Vivendi was huge and quite content to indulge one of their minor components that would regularly shit out golden eggs. As a larger slice of a much smaller pie Blizzard found itself under a lot more pressure from investors expecting steady returns and this seems to be when a more "Activision-like" corporate culture was instilled.
    Yeah, the buy back from Vivendi definitely gave Activision a larger piece of the pie. It also seems like Blizzard execs never really had the opportunity (or inclination) to take a real seat at the table. These were all likely contributors to the change in culture.

    I just remember Kaplan talking about pitching Overwatch to the Activision board and it seemed like they were under quite a bit of scrutiny after Titan, and I know that project failing was a huge blow to morale.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaHandsB View Post
    He co-founded Blizzard and created the most successful MMO of all time with FAR less than he has now lol. He didn't even "unicorn farts" back then. I don't doubt him at all.
    I know right? When he was still just a wee lad in the 90s, he led small team of like a handful of young college grads to becoming one of the most successful gaming companies ever. I'm sure all he has in his pocket is "unicorn farts" after an additional 30 years of experience.

  14. #254
    The amount of people forgetting Wildstar is pretty hilarious

  15. #255
    Metzen is very overrated. The game engine crew contributed a lot more to the success of WoW in the early years.

  16. #256
    Good for him. Just wish he would've stuck to those values he's looking to create with Dreamhaven when he was captain of the Blizzard ship - instead of selling out to soulless activism, to predictable ends we all saw coming.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Wasn’t Morhaime one of the guys people shouted for to quit, he’s in it for the money, and he’s ruining the game?
    No, actually of all the people who got lambasted for one reason or another Mike was almost always viewed positively as far as I remember.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Arguments like these just further confirm what i assume, you just want to argue and disagree for the sake of it.
    Dude, you're the one who took issue with my one-line post. Don't talk about "arguing for arguing's sake" when you're the one that initiated this whole thing, somehow feeling the need to defend "holier-than-Jesus" Mike Morhaime.

    Kotick wanted to get WoW, he'd get it somehow, imagine a scenario where Morhaime told told to to fuck off
    If Morhaime said that, like I said, the merger wouldn't happen and Activision-Blizzard wouldn't have happened and Blizzard would still be under Vivendi, or worse, under some other company, like EA. Because, as the article goes, it is apparent that Morhaime was who convinced Kotick to go with the merge.

    I don't think someone who wants to stretch the meaning of "can" to the point "yeah, Morhaime can also give his company to a publisher for free" should talk about "meaningless arguments".
    I'm not "stretching" anything. I'm not only fully within the actual definition of the modal verb, but I'm also demonstrating how "he can do this" arguments are meaningless when we're talking about future events. Can Morhaime say "no"? Yes, he can. But he can also say "yes", and so both statements cancel each other out.

    Fatalism is not the same thing as pessimism.
    Your initial claim is still wrong, though, since I was not being a fatalist, considering I never said anything even remotely like "what's the point of him making a new company?"
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  19. #259
    now we Finally have PROVE that activision WAS the reason so many of the originals left Blizzard while some white knights pretended otherwise

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    shit, if this doesn't confirm the theory that Morhaime was given two options with regards to Blizzard (Quiet bow-out or Public execution) I don't know what does.

    Let's see what he can do without Activision breathing down his neck about Profits and Deadlines
    Dick around without any real deadline and end up with another debacle like SC Ghost.

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