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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Morhaime owns the Company from my understanding, so they cannot be bought by another company by them just putting money on the table, Morhaime can just say no.

    Activision was able to buy Blizzard because Blizzard was owned by Vivendi, hence they bought it from Vivendi, Morhaime most likely had no say in the matter.
    Just because he owns it now doesn't mean he'll always own it. It depends on how much funding he has, how much the games make, and how much his employees need to be paid, etc.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Dude, you're the one who took issue with my one-line post.
    There is a line with disagreeing with someone initial post and randomnly replying things that aren't even relevant to the post or bringing up scenarios that are completely out of the blue and then justifying them with "he can do that".
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Because, as the article goes, it is apparent that Morhaime was who convinced Kotick to go with the merge.
    Again, you're taking one sentence and extremely simplifying it, there was most likely a lot more between them other than just "dude just buy it".
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I'm not "stretching" anything. I'm not only fully within the actual definition of the modal verb
    When you describe a scenario that is completely out of blue and solely stands upon it being physically of happening, then it is a stretch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Your initial claim is still wrong, though, since I was not being a fatalist, considering I never said anything even remotely like "what's the point of him making a new company?"
    Considering that you've further went on and said that might happen once Morhaime no leads the company, already implies that thing might happen in the rather distant future.

    Hence, fatalist.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Just because he owns it now doesn't mean he'll always own it. It depends on how much funding he has, how much the games make, and how much his employees need to be paid, etc.
    The post i've been replying was under the assumption that they are successful, whereas in your scenario, they obviously aren't if they struggle to even sustain themselves.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    The amount of people forgetting Wildstar is pretty hilarious
    WildStar had a huge potential. The thing that stopped WildStar from succeeding was exactly the corporate money-making structure which Morhaime criticizes.
    WildStar was a game with a vibrant story, original battle system and challenging content.

    But because of the strict deadlines and rushing for WildStars release they started without ensuring a good launch experience.

    The game could have succeeded if the developers could have had more time to polish everything. Very rarely people criticized WildStar for game itself, but instead for other problems with server structure and bugs.

    Anyone who really played WildStar knows that the game didn't really fail because it was a bad game. It failed because of corporate structures and incompetent executives.
    Last edited by TheTaurenChieftain; 2020-09-25 at 08:50 AM.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Just because he owns it now doesn't mean he'll always own it. It depends on how much funding he has, how much the games make, and how much his employees need to be paid, etc.
    fairly certain he's a billionaire, so if he wants too he can definitely keep external investors/influences out.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Wasn’t Morhaime one of the guys people shouted for to quit, he’s in it for the money, and he’s ruining the game?
    Nope.

    And to all the naysayers and crybabies about this crap, these guys had founded and worked at Blizzard for nearly 30 years. That's a long time at one place. I have no doubts the old guard that left were planning to do so regardless. The Activision culture clash just hastened it. Those that left seem more at home in a smaller dev setting anyways which allows them to do more of what they want. This stuff was inevitable the bigger Blizzard got.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenChieftain View Post
    WildStar had a huge potential. The thing that stopped WildStar from succeeding was exactly the corporate money-making structure which Morhaime criticizes.
    WildStar was a game with a vibrant story, original battle system and challenging content.

    But because of the strict deadlines and rushing for WildStars release they started without ensuring a good launch experience.

    The game could have succeeded if the developers could have had more time to polish everything. Very rarely people criticized WildStar for game itself, but instead for other problems with server structure and bugs.

    Anyone who really played WildStar knows that the game didn't really fail because it was a bad game. It failed because of corporate structures and incompetent executives.
    Wildstar was trash that looked great. Just from a gameplay perspective, the lag was bad and never seemed to improve to be responsive enough in the year I played. If you are referring to the telegraphing system, it wasn't original, WoW had some telegraphed boss moves, very few, by the time Wildstar came out. Besides that it was fairly boilerplate MMO combat. But even if they had time to polish, the ridiculous grinding nature and excessive attunement requirements for things is wast did it in. They made changes to that but it was far too late the game was in serious decline by then.

  6. #266
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    Only a matter of time before they become victims of their own success once again. Oh well, at least they'll push gaming forward again and provide us with some sweet games.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Wildstar was trash that looked great.
    And Carbine was given years to try to get it to a releasable state. NCSoft was arguably too gentle with them.

    In a way, it's sad the team at Carbine screwed up in so many ways, as it clouds the case for pointing to any one specific screwup as a cause of the game's disastrous failure.

    I look forward to seeing what Morhaime does. Like Carbine, this is a chance, however murky, to put some ideas of what works and what doesn't work in game development to the test.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Nope.

    But even if they had time to polish, the ridiculous grinding nature and excessive attunement requirements for things is wast did it in. They made changes to that but it was far too late the game was in serious decline by then.
    Do you still play WoW or BFA? WoW is even more grindy now than WildStar ever was. And with WildStar the grind was fun at least and there were things to do. WoWs allied races are also currently locked behind a grind. At least WildStars content wasn't timegated.

    WildStar also had a lot of QoL features which WoW should have copied. WildStar lacked in some areas but was largely superior to WoW in other areas (housing for example. WildStar had hands down the best housing system ever created in an MMO).

    WildStar wasn't even more grindy than WoW is now. And for WildStar the grind was at least somewhat fun and not unnecessary time-gated grind to increase subscriptions.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    There is a line with disagreeing with someone initial post and randomnly replying things that aren't even relevant to the post or bringing up scenarios that are completely out of the blue and then justifying them with "he can do that".
    You're justifying your argument with "he can do that", and I've demonstrated how "he can do that" scenarios are meaningless. The fact this flies over your head despite me more than once pointing that out to you is astonishing.

    Again, you're taking one sentence and extremely simplifying it, there was most likely a lot more between them other than just "dude just buy it".
    And now you're putting words into my posts considering I never claimed Morhaime said anything like "dude just buy it". I simply pointed out that his talk with Kotick is likely to have been pivotal for Kotick to go with the merge.

    When you describe a scenario that is completely out of blue and solely stands upon it being physically of happening, then it is a stretch.
    Then you don't know what "stretching a term's definition" really means. Here's a hint: it means making a word or term mean something other than what is actually means. And I've explained and demonstrated that I did not.

    Considering that you've further went on and said that might happen once Morhaime no leads the company, already implies that thing might happen in the rather distant future.

    Hence, fatalist.
    Once again, I have never said anything even remotely like "what's the point of Morhaime making a new company?" You accuse me of twisting words and sentences, yet here you engage in the very thing you accuse me of.

    The post i've been replying was under the assumption that they are successful, whereas in your scenario, they obviously aren't if they struggle to even sustain themselves.
    Mojang was acquired by a hefty sum while they were still successful. King was acquired while they were still successful. Bethesda and Zenimax were acquired while they were still successful. Fuck, I wrote this in my original post that you took issue with:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And if they prove successful, they'll be bought by a bigger company, and the cycle will repeat, ironically enough.
    I specifically said "if they prove successful". I never mentioned that Dreamhaven would have to be "struggling" so they could be bought. You don't even know what you're arguing against, and yet you accuse me of "arguing for arguing's sake".
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  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenChieftain View Post
    Do you still play WoW or BFA? WoW is even more grindy now than WildStar ever was. And with WildStar the grind was fun at least and there were things to do. WoWs allied races are also currently locked behind a grind. At least WildStars content wasn't timegated.

    WildStar also had a lot of QoL features which WoW should have copied. WildStar lacked in some areas but was largely superior to WoW in other areas (housing for example. WildStar had hands down the best housing system ever created in an MMO).

    WildStar wasn't even more grindy than WoW is now. And for WildStar the grind was at least somewhat fun and not unnecessary time-gated grind to increase subscriptions.
    Yeah no. I've played since late closed Beta and Wildstar was more grindy than Vanilla. BfA is hardly grindy compared to the old days.

    The only thing I found fun was some of the classes but that was seriously hampered by the input lag. My wife and I had high hopes for the game. We love that aesthetic and art style and were both severely disappointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    And Carbine was given years to try to get it to a releasable state. NCSoft was arguably too gentle with them.

    In a way, it's sad the team at Carbine screwed up in so many ways, as it clouds the case for pointing to any one specific screwup as a cause of the game's disastrous failure.

    I look forward to seeing what Morhaime does. Like Carbine, this is a chance, however murky, to put some ideas of what works and what doesn't work in game development to the test.
    Oh I know. And many of the issues that players cited for not continuing were being raised early into testing. I mean Blizzard nailed combat responsiveness back in 2004 and hardly an MMO has come that matches it. Wildstar was all show no substance ontop of a ton of correctable problems that never got addressed or addressed to late.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Yeah no. I've played since late closed Beta and Wildstar was more grindy than Vanilla. BfA is hardly grindy compared to the old days.
    You say you play vanilla, yet BFA pales in comparison to vanilla. What grind is there in vanilla? You get your gear, you do your raids, everything else is optional. Want to unlock profession patterns by killing furbolgs and what not to make yourself stand out compared to most others? Go ahead.

    There's nothing mandatory, except for maybe Argent Dawn for the Naxx attunement, and even that is optional. ZG rep comes from doing the raid. AQ rep comes from doing the raids.

    BFA had you do tons of mandatory grinds for reputation and artifact power: island expeditions, mythic+ dungeons, world quest, rares. You can get your gear in vanilla and go raid, you can't do that in BFA, you have to unlock azerite traits (artifact power) and essences, which itself is several grinds.

  12. #272
    i do hope mike and dreamhaven make an mmo. i'd love to see what former blizzard devs with the good leadership from the golden days of blizzard would do to stand up to wow. up until now, it has always been "former blizz devs" but now we have the former blizz management too. that could make all the difference.

  13. #273
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenChieftain View Post
    WildStar had a huge potential. The thing that stopped WildStar from succeeding was exactly the corporate money-making structure which Morhaime criticizes.
    WildStar was a game with a vibrant story, original battle system and challenging content.

    But because of the strict deadlines and rushing for WildStars release they started without ensuring a good launch experience.

    The game could have succeeded if the developers could have had more time to polish everything. Very rarely people criticized WildStar for game itself, but instead for other problems with server structure and bugs.

    Anyone who really played WildStar knows that the game didn't really fail because it was a bad game. It failed because of corporate structures and incompetent executives.
    It's such a shame. Wildstar was a wonderful game with so much potential. It could have easily undergone a rebirth similar to what FFXIV went through. It also had one of the best and most in-depth player housing systems that I've seen in a game.

    Though I'm not too surprised that it collapsed and faded away. MMO's are ridiculously expensive to create and maintain these days - to the point that even those that do well, such as FFXIV, need to constantly shift goalposts and crunch in order to meet wildly unreasonable goals.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    It's such a shame. Wildstar was a wonderful game with so much potential. It could have easily undergone a rebirth similar to what FFXIV went through. It also had one of the best and most in-depth player housing systems that I've seen in a game.

    Though I'm not too surprised that it collapsed and faded away. MMO's are ridiculously expensive to create and maintain these days - to the point that even those that do well, such as FFXIV, need to constantly shift goalposts and crunch in order to meet wildly unreasonable goals.
    I agree Wildstar was the one MMO I actually played the longest outside of WoW. Here's hoping that Dreamhaven can create a rival MMO masterpiece.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    Only a matter of time before they become victims of their own success once again. Oh well, at least they'll push gaming forward again and provide us with some sweet games.
    much more likely they will just fade into obscurity. at best they'll get a game on path of exiles level of success, if they can find a nice niche to occupy. but they can just as easily never release anything until they "get it right" which may be never, or just have games that are mediocre sales wise like a dime in a dozen studios. it's all happened before to studios "by big names from big studio" by now, and i don't think any has ever struck gold the same way their original companies did.

  16. #276
    The Patient BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    Mike Morhaim should have spent his money in investment banking. Swindle into Activision-Blizzard, trash the company into pieces, sell them for parts and then keep the IPs he want. Investment Banking is awesome!

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by lakylog View Post
    You say you play vanilla, yet BFA pales in comparison to vanilla. What grind is there in vanilla? You get your gear, you do your raids, everything else is optional. Want to unlock profession patterns by killing furbolgs and what not to make yourself stand out compared to most others? Go ahead.

    There's nothing mandatory, except for maybe Argent Dawn for the Naxx attunement, and even that is optional. ZG rep comes from doing the raid. AQ rep comes from doing the raids.

    BFA had you do tons of mandatory grinds for reputation and artifact power: island expeditions, mythic+ dungeons, world quest, rares. You can get your gear in vanilla and go raid, you can't do that in BFA, you have to unlock azerite traits (artifact power) and essences, which itself is several grinds.
    All the faction reps, PvP ranks, resist gear, and mats for raiding materials were far greater than the couple of hours a week needed for anything in BfA. I play around 10 hours a week and am able to achieve more than when I was playing 20+ from launch through WotLK. And seriously anyone thinking this shit today is a grind has no fucking clue.

  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    You sound like a well-adjusted individual.
    I mean I guess thinking its funny how desperately everyone clings to the idea of Activision bad, blizzard soul good makes me unhinged right? ....lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    All the faction reps, PvP ranks, resist gear, and mats for raiding materials were far greater than the couple of hours a week needed for anything in BfA. I play around 10 hours a week and am able to achieve more than when I was playing 20+ from launch through WotLK. And seriously anyone thinking this shit today is a grind has no fucking clue.
    Hey there bud, 5 level 60s that are pretty close to AQ BIS....stop lying to yourself. Classic "grinding" is waiting for it to be your turn to get the onslaught that drops once a week...nothing more.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    All the faction reps, PvP ranks, resist gear, and mats for raiding materials were far greater than the couple of hours a week needed for anything in BfA. I play around 10 hours a week and am able to achieve more than when I was playing 20+ from launch through WotLK. And seriously anyone thinking this shit today is a grind has no fucking clue.
    >Faction reps
    Classic: One hundred percent optional. You can get some profession patterns, but if you desire any of these enchants/crafts you can get them from other players who bothered.
    BFA: you have dungeons gated behind faction reputations, essences and flying.

    > PvP ranks:
    Classic: One hundred percent optional. I raid in Classic and I've never touched PvP outside of getting Rank 3 for the discount.
    BFA: Forces you to PvP for essences.

    > Mats for raiding materials:
    Classic: If you're in a decent guild, the guild bank can in most cases provide materials needed for flasks where necessary for progression. Flasks are not used for farm because it's overkill. Flasks also persist on death. You can make it all the way to Naxx with nothing but resistance potions so your time spent grinding for mats is minimal.
    BFA: You are usually expected to show up with food, flasks, and pots for every raid worth hours of grind or thousands of gold.

    > Resist gear:
    Classic: This only applies if you're the given role that requires it, excluding Naxx.
    BFA: Non-existent.

    It sounds to me like you're comparing casual BFA LFR to (semi)hardcore vanilla raiding. If you want to get that in depth I'd like to bring up Method's hundreds of millions of gold debt to stay competitive in BFA.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by subsidalos View Post
    I agree Wildstar was the one MMO I actually played the longest outside of WoW. Here's hoping that Dreamhaven can create a rival MMO masterpiece.
    the longest here meaning...what...the 5 months it was actually online in a semi populated state?

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