Mike Morhaime Starts New Gaming Company, Dreamhaven

[Ielenia]

Is this really an argument i'm supposed to entertain?

You're the one using "he can do this" as an argument.

the sentence:

Implies that you assume he had some sort of choice in the matter, which he quite frankly never had, he could only make the best out of the situation.
If it's not within his power to stop something, you can't really hold it against him that didn't stop that.

Unless you hold it against him that he didn't outright quit, which wouldn't have changed the course of Blizzard in that aspect.

Again, I never said anything about Morhaime "preventing something he had no say in". I simply pointed out the fact that Morhaime may not have been against the merge in the first place.

If a major shift in power is about to take place within the company, it's pretty natural that people try to play nice with the new bosses and not make some futile attempt to stonewall them without having any power to actually stop them taking over.

Considering that Morhaime was apparently the pivotal opinion that swayed Kotick to go through with the merge, I'd say Morhaime had quite the say in this. He could have just, like you said, "stonewalled" Kotick, which would mean Activision would not merge with Vivendi, and "Activision-Blizzard" would not have happened...

After all, Kotick and Co. could've just sold out Blizzard IP's, like they did with other companies they acquired.

More meaningless arguments. What he "could do" is meaningless. Because Vivendi, who was the majority shareholder, could also have sold all of Activision's IPs, too. Not to mention that the whole point of the merge was because Activision wanted to get their hands on World of Warcraft.

Seems like a massive fatalist stance, like saying "Who cares about life, i'll die someday anyway".

No, it's nowhere near "fatalist". It would be "fatalist" if I said "and then his company will inevitably fail and close".

[Kralljin]

You're the one using "he can do this" as an argument.

Arguments like these just further confirm what i assume, you just want to argue and disagree for the sake of it.

When someone tells me "oh he could also do something utterly retarded or outlandish, because you said he can do something" and somehow sees this as a valid argument, then i don't know what else you're doing.

I simply pointed out the fact that Morhaime may not have been against the merge in the first place.

Again, possible, but leaves out that what He and Kotick discussed.

I doubt He and Morhaime never discussed the fate of Blizzard in that circumstance and if they did, Kotick most likely didn't tell him "i'm going to tell you when to release games, no matter the state they're in".

Considering that Morhaime was apparently the pivotal opinion that swayed Kotick to go through with the merge, I'd say Morhaime had quite the say in this. He could have just, like you said, "stonewalled" Kotick, which would mean Activision would not merge with Vivendi, and "Activision-Blizzard" would not have happened...

And what he would have gained from it?

Kotick wanted to get WoW, he'd get it somehow, imagine a scenario where Morhaime told told to to fuck off and then Kotick would have signed the Warcraft IP (or Blizzard itself) over someone else after the merger, because the current Blizzard leadership wasn't coorparative.
Trying to downplay the success to WoW or even attempting to manipulate Kotick by feeding his concerns is something that can easily backfire.

Morhaime was not in a position of power at that point, especially because we don't know what Vivendi was up to at this point.

More meaningless arguments. What he "could do" is meaningless. Because Vivendi, who was the majority shareholder, could also have sold all of Activision's IPs, too. Not to mention that the whole point of the merge was because Activision wanted to get their hands on World of Warcraft.

I don't think someone who wants to stretch the meaning of "can" to the point "yeah, Morhaime can also give his company to a publisher for free" should talk about "meaningless arguments".

No, it's nowhere near "fatalist". It would be "fatalist" if I said "and then his company will inevitably fail and close".

Fatalism is not the same thing as pessimism.

[Kathranis]

I keep harping on about this but the big change seemed to come when Acti-Blizz became independent from Vivendi SA. As a parent company Vivendi was huge and quite content to indulge one of their minor components that would regularly shit out golden eggs. As a larger slice of a much smaller pie Blizzard found itself under a lot more pressure from investors expecting steady returns and this seems to be when a more "Activision-like" corporate culture was instilled.

Yeah, the buy back from Vivendi definitely gave Activision a larger piece of the pie. It also seems like Blizzard execs never really had the opportunity (or inclination) to take a real seat at the table. These were all likely contributors to the change in culture.

I just remember Kaplan talking about pitching Overwatch to the Activision board and it seemed like they were under quite a bit of scrutiny after Titan, and I know that project failing was a huge blow to morale.

[GreenJesus]

He co-founded Blizzard and created the most successful MMO of all time with FAR less than he has now lol. He didn't even "unicorn farts" back then. I don't doubt him at all.

I know right? When he was still just a wee lad in the 90s, he led small team of like a handful of young college grads to becoming one of the most successful gaming companies ever. I'm sure all he has in his pocket is "unicorn farts" after an additional 30 years of experience.

[Ghostile]

The amount of people forgetting Wildstar is pretty hilarious

[Astator]

Metzen is very overrated. The game engine crew contributed a lot more to the success of WoW in the early years.

[DesmondCreighton]

Good for him. Just wish he would've stuck to those values he's looking to create with Dreamhaven when he was captain of the Blizzard ship - instead of selling out to soulless activism, to predictable ends we all saw coming.

[Whitedragon]

Wasn’t Morhaime one of the guys people shouted for to quit, he’s in it for the money, and he’s ruining the game?

No, actually of all the people who got lambasted for one reason or another Mike was almost always viewed positively as far as I remember.

[Ielenia]

Arguments like these just further confirm what i assume, you just want to argue and disagree for the sake of it.

Dude, you're the one who took issue with my one-line post. Don't talk about "arguing for arguing's sake" when you're the one that initiated this whole thing, somehow feeling the need to defend "holier-than-Jesus" Mike Morhaime.

Kotick wanted to get WoW, he'd get it somehow, imagine a scenario where Morhaime told told to to fuck off

If Morhaime said that, like I said, the merger wouldn't happen and Activision-Blizzard wouldn't have happened and Blizzard would still be under Vivendi, or worse, under some other company, like EA. Because, as the article goes, it is apparent that Morhaime was who convinced Kotick to go with the merge.

I don't think someone who wants to stretch the meaning of "can" to the point "yeah, Morhaime can also give his company to a publisher for free" should talk about "meaningless arguments".

I'm not "stretching" anything. I'm not only fully within the actual definition of the modal verb, but I'm also demonstrating how "he can do this" arguments are meaningless when we're talking about future events. Can Morhaime say "no"? Yes, he can. But he can also say "yes", and so both statements cancel each other out.

Fatalism is not the same thing as pessimism.

Your initial claim is still wrong, though, since I was not being a fatalist, considering I never said anything even remotely like "what's the point of him making a new company?"

[tmamass]

now we Finally have PROVE that activision WAS the reason so many of the originals left Blizzard while some white knights pretended otherwise

[Clone]

shit, if this doesn't confirm the theory that Morhaime was given two options with regards to Blizzard (Quiet bow-out or Public execution) I don't know what does.

Let's see what he can do without Activision breathing down his neck about Profits and Deadlines

Dick around without any real deadline and end up with another debacle like SC Ghost.

[Kralljin]

Dude, you're the one who took issue with my one-line post.

There is a line with disagreeing with someone initial post and randomnly replying things that aren't even relevant to the post or bringing up scenarios that are completely out of the blue and then justifying them with "he can do that".

Because, as the article goes, it is apparent that Morhaime was who convinced Kotick to go with the merge.

Again, you're taking one sentence and extremely simplifying it, there was most likely a lot more between them other than just "dude just buy it".

I'm not "stretching" anything. I'm not only fully within the actual definition of the modal verb

When you describe a scenario that is completely out of blue and solely stands upon it being physically of happening, then it is a stretch.

Your initial claim is still wrong, though, since I was not being a fatalist, considering I never said anything even remotely like "what's the point of him making a new company?"

Considering that you've further went on and said that might happen once Morhaime no leads the company, already implies that thing might happen in the rather distant future.

Hence, fatalist.

Just because he owns it now doesn't mean he'll always own it. It depends on how much funding he has, how much the games make, and how much his employees need to be paid, etc.

The post i've been replying was under the assumption that they are successful, whereas in your scenario, they obviously aren't if they struggle to even sustain themselves.

[TheTaurenChieftain]

The amount of people forgetting Wildstar is pretty hilarious

WildStar had a huge potential. The thing that stopped WildStar from succeeding was exactly the corporate money-making structure which Morhaime criticizes.
WildStar was a game with a vibrant story, original battle system and challenging content.

But because of the strict deadlines and rushing for WildStars release they started without ensuring a good launch experience.

The game could have succeeded if the developers could have had more time to polish everything. Very rarely people criticized WildStar for game itself, but instead for other problems with server structure and bugs.

Anyone who really played WildStar knows that the game didn't really fail because it was a bad game. It failed because of corporate structures and incompetent executives.

[Hellobolis]

Just because he owns it now doesn't mean he'll always own it. It depends on how much funding he has, how much the games make, and how much his employees need to be paid, etc.

fairly certain he's a billionaire, so if he wants too he can definitely keep external investors/influences out.

[SirBeef]

Wasn’t Morhaime one of the guys people shouted for to quit, he’s in it for the money, and he’s ruining the game?

Nope.

And to all the naysayers and crybabies about this crap, these guys had founded and worked at Blizzard for nearly 30 years. That's a long time at one place. I have no doubts the old guard that left were planning to do so regardless. The Activision culture clash just hastened it. Those that left seem more at home in a smaller dev setting anyways which allows them to do more of what they want. This stuff was inevitable the bigger Blizzard got.

- - - Updated - - -

WildStar had a huge potential. The thing that stopped WildStar from succeeding was exactly the corporate money-making structure which Morhaime criticizes.
WildStar was a game with a vibrant story, original battle system and challenging content.

But because of the strict deadlines and rushing for WildStars release they started without ensuring a good launch experience.

The game could have succeeded if the developers could have had more time to polish everything. Very rarely people criticized WildStar for game itself, but instead for other problems with server structure and bugs.

Anyone who really played WildStar knows that the game didn't really fail because it was a bad game. It failed because of corporate structures and incompetent executives.

Wildstar was trash that looked great. Just from a gameplay perspective, the lag was bad and never seemed to improve to be responsive enough in the year I played. If you are referring to the telegraphing system, it wasn't original, WoW had some telegraphed boss moves, very few, by the time Wildstar came out. Besides that it was fairly boilerplate MMO combat. But even if they had time to polish, the ridiculous grinding nature and excessive attunement requirements for things is wast did it in. They made changes to that but it was far too late the game was in serious decline by then.

[Tiwack]

Only a matter of time before they become victims of their own success once again. Oh well, at least they'll push gaming forward again and provide us with some sweet games.

[Osmeric]

Wildstar was trash that looked great.

And Carbine was given years to try to get it to a releasable state. NCSoft was arguably too gentle with them.

In a way, it's sad the team at Carbine screwed up in so many ways, as it clouds the case for pointing to any one specific screwup as a cause of the game's disastrous failure.

I look forward to seeing what Morhaime does. Like Carbine, this is a chance, however murky, to put some ideas of what works and what doesn't work in game development to the test.

[TheTaurenChieftain]

Nope.

But even if they had time to polish, the ridiculous grinding nature and excessive attunement requirements for things is wast did it in. They made changes to that but it was far too late the game was in serious decline by then.

Do you still play WoW or BFA? WoW is even more grindy now than WildStar ever was. And with WildStar the grind was fun at least and there were things to do. WoWs allied races are also currently locked behind a grind. At least WildStars content wasn't timegated.

WildStar also had a lot of QoL features which WoW should have copied. WildStar lacked in some areas but was largely superior to WoW in other areas (housing for example. WildStar had hands down the best housing system ever created in an MMO).

WildStar wasn't even more grindy than WoW is now. And for WildStar the grind was at least somewhat fun and not unnecessary time-gated grind to increase subscriptions.

[Ielenia]

There is a line with disagreeing with someone initial post and randomnly replying things that aren't even relevant to the post or bringing up scenarios that are completely out of the blue and then justifying them with "he can do that".

You're justifying your argument with "he can do that", and I've demonstrated how "he can do that" scenarios are meaningless. The fact this flies over your head despite me more than once pointing that out to you is astonishing.

Again, you're taking one sentence and extremely simplifying it, there was most likely a lot more between them other than just "dude just buy it".

And now you're putting words into my posts considering I never claimed Morhaime said anything like "dude just buy it". I simply pointed out that his talk with Kotick is likely to have been pivotal for Kotick to go with the merge.

When you describe a scenario that is completely out of blue and solely stands upon it being physically of happening, then it is a stretch.

Then you don't know what "stretching a term's definition" really means. Here's a hint: it means making a word or term mean something other than what is actually means. And I've explained and demonstrated that I did not.

Considering that you've further went on and said that might happen once Morhaime no leads the company, already implies that thing might happen in the rather distant future.

Hence, fatalist.

Once again, I have never said anything even remotely like "what's the point of Morhaime making a new company?" You accuse me of twisting words and sentences, yet here you engage in the very thing you accuse me of.

The post i've been replying was under the assumption that they are successful, whereas in your scenario, they obviously aren't if they struggle to even sustain themselves.

Mojang was acquired by a hefty sum while they were still successful. King was acquired while they were still successful. Bethesda and Zenimax were acquired while they were still successful. Fuck, I wrote this in my original post that you took issue with:

And if they prove successful, they'll be bought by a bigger company, and the cycle will repeat, ironically enough.

I specifically said "if they prove successful". I never mentioned that Dreamhaven would have to be "struggling" so they could be bought. You don't even know what you're arguing against, and yet you accuse me of "arguing for arguing's sake".

[SirBeef]

Do you still play WoW or BFA? WoW is even more grindy now than WildStar ever was. And with WildStar the grind was fun at least and there were things to do. WoWs allied races are also currently locked behind a grind. At least WildStars content wasn't timegated.

WildStar also had a lot of QoL features which WoW should have copied. WildStar lacked in some areas but was largely superior to WoW in other areas (housing for example. WildStar had hands down the best housing system ever created in an MMO).

WildStar wasn't even more grindy than WoW is now. And for WildStar the grind was at least somewhat fun and not unnecessary time-gated grind to increase subscriptions.

Yeah no. I've played since late closed Beta and Wildstar was more grindy than Vanilla. BfA is hardly grindy compared to the old days.

The only thing I found fun was some of the classes but that was seriously hampered by the input lag. My wife and I had high hopes for the game. We love that aesthetic and art style and were both severely disappointed.

- - - Updated - - -

And Carbine was given years to try to get it to a releasable state. NCSoft was arguably too gentle with them.

In a way, it's sad the team at Carbine screwed up in so many ways, as it clouds the case for pointing to any one specific screwup as a cause of the game's disastrous failure.

I look forward to seeing what Morhaime does. Like Carbine, this is a chance, however murky, to put some ideas of what works and what doesn't work in game development to the test.

Oh I know. And many of the issues that players cited for not continuing were being raised early into testing. I mean Blizzard nailed combat responsiveness back in 2004 and hardly an MMO has come that matches it. Wildstar was all show no substance ontop of a ton of correctable problems that never got addressed or addressed to late.