Mike Morhaime Starts New Gaming Company, Dreamhaven

[lakylog]

Yeah no. I've played since late closed Beta and Wildstar was more grindy than Vanilla. BfA is hardly grindy compared to the old days.

You say you play vanilla, yet BFA pales in comparison to vanilla. What grind is there in vanilla? You get your gear, you do your raids, everything else is optional. Want to unlock profession patterns by killing furbolgs and what not to make yourself stand out compared to most others? Go ahead.

There's nothing mandatory, except for maybe Argent Dawn for the Naxx attunement, and even that is optional. ZG rep comes from doing the raid. AQ rep comes from doing the raids.

BFA had you do tons of mandatory grinds for reputation and artifact power: island expeditions, mythic+ dungeons, world quest, rares. You can get your gear in vanilla and go raid, you can't do that in BFA, you have to unlock azerite traits (artifact power) and essences, which itself is several grinds.

[aceperson]

i do hope mike and dreamhaven make an mmo. i'd love to see what former blizzard devs with the good leadership from the golden days of blizzard would do to stand up to wow. up until now, it has always been "former blizz devs" but now we have the former blizz management too. that could make all the difference.

[Graeham]

WildStar had a huge potential. The thing that stopped WildStar from succeeding was exactly the corporate money-making structure which Morhaime criticizes.
WildStar was a game with a vibrant story, original battle system and challenging content.

But because of the strict deadlines and rushing for WildStars release they started without ensuring a good launch experience.

The game could have succeeded if the developers could have had more time to polish everything. Very rarely people criticized WildStar for game itself, but instead for other problems with server structure and bugs.

Anyone who really played WildStar knows that the game didn't really fail because it was a bad game. It failed because of corporate structures and incompetent executives.

It's such a shame. Wildstar was a wonderful game with so much potential. It could have easily undergone a rebirth similar to what FFXIV went through. It also had one of the best and most in-depth player housing systems that I've seen in a game.

Though I'm not too surprised that it collapsed and faded away. MMO's are ridiculously expensive to create and maintain these days - to the point that even those that do well, such as FFXIV, need to constantly shift goalposts and crunch in order to meet wildly unreasonable goals.

[subsidalos]

It's such a shame. Wildstar was a wonderful game with so much potential. It could have easily undergone a rebirth similar to what FFXIV went through. It also had one of the best and most in-depth player housing systems that I've seen in a game.

Though I'm not too surprised that it collapsed and faded away. MMO's are ridiculously expensive to create and maintain these days - to the point that even those that do well, such as FFXIV, need to constantly shift goalposts and crunch in order to meet wildly unreasonable goals.

I agree Wildstar was the one MMO I actually played the longest outside of WoW. Here's hoping that Dreamhaven can create a rival MMO masterpiece.

[Hellobolis]

Only a matter of time before they become victims of their own success once again. Oh well, at least they'll push gaming forward again and provide us with some sweet games.

much more likely they will just fade into obscurity. at best they'll get a game on path of exiles level of success, if they can find a nice niche to occupy. but they can just as easily never release anything until they "get it right" which may be never, or just have games that are mediocre sales wise like a dime in a dozen studios. it's all happened before to studios "by big names from big studio" by now, and i don't think any has ever struck gold the same way their original companies did.

[BrintoSFJ]

Mike Morhaim should have spent his money in investment banking. Swindle into Activision-Blizzard, trash the company into pieces, sell them for parts and then keep the IPs he want. Investment Banking is awesome!

[SirBeef]

You say you play vanilla, yet BFA pales in comparison to vanilla. What grind is there in vanilla? You get your gear, you do your raids, everything else is optional. Want to unlock profession patterns by killing furbolgs and what not to make yourself stand out compared to most others? Go ahead.

There's nothing mandatory, except for maybe Argent Dawn for the Naxx attunement, and even that is optional. ZG rep comes from doing the raid. AQ rep comes from doing the raids.

BFA had you do tons of mandatory grinds for reputation and artifact power: island expeditions, mythic+ dungeons, world quest, rares. You can get your gear in vanilla and go raid, you can't do that in BFA, you have to unlock azerite traits (artifact power) and essences, which itself is several grinds.

All the faction reps, PvP ranks, resist gear, and mats for raiding materials were far greater than the couple of hours a week needed for anything in BfA. I play around 10 hours a week and am able to achieve more than when I was playing 20+ from launch through WotLK. And seriously anyone thinking this shit today is a grind has no fucking clue.

[Checkt]

You sound like a well-adjusted individual.

I mean I guess thinking its funny how desperately everyone clings to the idea of Activision bad, blizzard soul good makes me unhinged right? ....lol

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All the faction reps, PvP ranks, resist gear, and mats for raiding materials were far greater than the couple of hours a week needed for anything in BfA. I play around 10 hours a week and am able to achieve more than when I was playing 20+ from launch through WotLK. And seriously anyone thinking this shit today is a grind has no fucking clue.

Hey there bud, 5 level 60s that are pretty close to AQ BIS....stop lying to yourself. Classic "grinding" is waiting for it to be your turn to get the onslaught that drops once a week...nothing more.

[lakylog]

All the faction reps, PvP ranks, resist gear, and mats for raiding materials were far greater than the couple of hours a week needed for anything in BfA. I play around 10 hours a week and am able to achieve more than when I was playing 20+ from launch through WotLK. And seriously anyone thinking this shit today is a grind has no fucking clue.

>Faction reps
Classic: One hundred percent optional. You can get some profession patterns, but if you desire any of these enchants/crafts you can get them from other players who bothered.
BFA: you have dungeons gated behind faction reputations, essences and flying.

> PvP ranks:
Classic: One hundred percent optional. I raid in Classic and I've never touched PvP outside of getting Rank 3 for the discount.
BFA: Forces you to PvP for essences.

> Mats for raiding materials:
Classic: If you're in a decent guild, the guild bank can in most cases provide materials needed for flasks where necessary for progression. Flasks are not used for farm because it's overkill. Flasks also persist on death. You can make it all the way to Naxx with nothing but resistance potions so your time spent grinding for mats is minimal.
BFA: You are usually expected to show up with food, flasks, and pots for every raid worth hours of grind or thousands of gold.

> Resist gear:
Classic: This only applies if you're the given role that requires it, excluding Naxx.
BFA: Non-existent.

It sounds to me like you're comparing casual BFA LFR to (semi)hardcore vanilla raiding. If you want to get that in depth I'd like to bring up Method's hundreds of millions of gold debt to stay competitive in BFA.

[Checkt]

I agree Wildstar was the one MMO I actually played the longest outside of WoW. Here's hoping that Dreamhaven can create a rival MMO masterpiece.

the longest here meaning...what...the 5 months it was actually online in a semi populated state?

[lakylog]

the longest here meaning...what...the 5 months it was actually online in a semi populated state?

How's it an argument how long it stayed "popular"? That's besides the point they made.

[ColbaneX]

>Faction reps
Classic: One hundred percent optional. You can get some profession patterns, but if you desire any of these enchants/crafts you can get them from other players who bothered.
BFA: you have dungeons gated behind faction reputations, essences and flying.

> PvP ranks:
Classic: One hundred percent optional. I raid in Classic and I've never touched PvP outside of getting Rank 3 for the discount.
BFA: Forces you to PvP for essences.

> Mats for raiding materials:
Classic: If you're in a decent guild, the guild bank can in most cases provide materials needed for flasks where necessary for progression. Flasks are not used for farm because it's overkill. Flasks also persist on death. You can make it all the way to Naxx with nothing but resistance potions so your time spent grinding for mats is minimal.
BFA: You are usually expected to show up with food, flasks, and pots for every raid worth hours of grind or thousands of gold.

> Resist gear:
Classic: This only applies if you're the given role that requires it, excluding Naxx.
BFA: Non-existent.

It sounds to me like you're comparing casual BFA LFR to (semi)hardcore vanilla raiding. If you want to get that in depth I'd like to bring up Method's hundreds of millions of gold debt to stay competitive in BFA.

This is reductive. Vanilla is a boring grindfest. Full stop.

[Oakshana]

Dreamhaven will kill WoW. Just like Wildstar did.

Well...

A.) Dreamhaven is a game development company, and the parent company to two gaming studios. Not a game.

B.) No games have been announced, so we have no idea what kind of games they'll initially develop. There is literally nothing to suggest it would even compete in the same market.

So this statement is kind of silly at best.

[Doffen]

So this statement is kind of silly at best.

I think this analysis was too serious for such a silly statement for sure

[lakylog]

This is reductive. Vanilla is a boring grindfest. Full stop.

Yet I provide numerous examples of grinds in BFA yet you can't provide a single example of grind in vanilla. You are very convincing.

[Deathrange]

Hope they make a game about Orcs and Humans. Where the Orcs come through a portal to a world where the humans live and they wage war on each other. Would be a cool game I think.

[Nerovar]

I mean I guess thinking its funny how desperately everyone clings to the idea of Activision bad, blizzard soul good makes me unhinged right? ....lol

I mean... those are your words.

[Toppy]

Isnt this the 16th studio made by former blizzard devs?

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Hope they make a game about Orcs and Humans. Where the Orcs come through a portal to a world where the humans live and they wage war on each other. Would be a cool game I think.

Mike is a businessman. He believes himself responsible for starting the internet gaming revolution. Its going to be a multiplayer competitive game of some sort. Same as Bonfire studios is doing: the other game studio made by "legendary blizzard devs".

[Ielenia]

>Faction reps
Classic: One hundred percent optional. You can get some profession patterns, but if you desire any of these enchants/crafts you can get them from other players who bothered.
BFA: you have dungeons gated behind faction reputations, essences and flying.

The dungeons remained locked behind rep for only five months. And even so, you did not need to do those dungeons. You don't need to do the reps in BfA just like you didn't need to do the reps back in vanilla.

> PvP ranks:
Classic: One hundred percent optional. I raid in Classic and I've never touched PvP outside of getting Rank 3 for the discount.
BFA: Forces you to PvP for essences.

I'm sorry, but you're being incredibly disingenuous, here. First, because BfA doesn't "force" you to do PvP for the essences, at all. And second, because the poster is talking about PvP ranks, not rewards or content locked behind PvP ranks. You're using a red herring, here.

> Mats for raiding materials:
Classic: If you're in a decent guild, the guild bank can in most cases provide materials needed for flasks where necessary for progression. Flasks are not used for farm because it's overkill. Flasks also persist on death. You can make it all the way to Naxx with nothing but resistance potions so your time spent grinding for mats is minimal.
BFA: You are usually expected to show up with food, flasks, and pots for every raid worth hours of grind or thousands of gold.

Flasks only started persisting through death on patch 1.7. And once again you're being disingenuous. Guilds in BfA do not "expect you to show up with food, flasks and pots", unless you're a serious raiding guild, and even then, those guilds often supply you with food and flasks. I'd imagine that "serious raiding guilds" in Vanilla would expect you to regularly pitch in with materials (herbs and food) for the guild's flasks, food and potions.

> Resist gear:
Classic: This only applies if you're the given role that requires it, excluding Naxx.
BFA: Non-existent.

Point for BfA.

[lakylog]

The dungeons remained locked behind rep for only five months. And even so, you did not need to do those dungeons. You don't need to do the reps in BfA just like you didn't need to do the reps back in vanilla.


I'm sorry, but you're being incredibly disingenuous, here. First, because BfA doesn't "force" you to do PvP for the essences, at all. And second, because the poster is talking about PvP ranks, not rewards or content locked behind PvP ranks. You're using a red herring, here.


Flasks only started persisting through death on patch 1.7. And once again you're being disingenuous. Guilds in BfA do not "expect you to show up with food, flasks and pots", unless you're a serious raiding guild, and even then, those guilds often supply you with food and flasks. I'd imagine that "serious raiding guilds" in Vanilla would expect you to regularly pitch in with materials (herbs and food) for the guild's flasks, food and potions.


Point for BfA.

> The dungeons remained locked behind rep for only five months. And even so, you did not need to do those dungeons. You don't need to do the reps in BfA just like you didn't need to do the reps back in vanilla.

You need to do those dungeons in mythic+ and mythic for gear.

> I'm sorry, but you're being incredibly disingenuous, here. First, because BfA doesn't "force" you to do PvP for the essences, at all. And second, because the poster is talking about PvP ranks, not rewards or content locked behind PvP ranks. You're using a red herring, here.

You have to grind for PvP ranks. You also have to grind for PvP rating (titles, rewards), the point is?

> Guilds in BfA do not "expect you to show up with food, flasks and pots", unless you're a serious raiding guild, and even then, those guilds often supply you with food and flasks. I'd imagine that "serious raiding guilds" in Vanilla would expect you to regularly pitch in with materials (herbs and food) for the guild's flasks, food and potions.

Every guild I've been in, whether it be a Mythic progression guild or a casual AotC guild has required me to show up fully buffed with food, flasks, and potions. My Classic guild has not required me to show up with anything other than mana potions. You can't prove my experience wrong.