Should Blizz delay Shadowland launch to make sure it starts in a good state?

[Raisei]

What's that?

Title and Poll assume that it is not going to be in a good state when launching as planned. The poll especially makes that clear. One either agrees with your assumption or one does not care for quality. No option exists for "It will be fine on launch", because you do not care for that opinion. All you wanted is an echo chamber for your negativity.

And by the Old Gods, did we really need yet anotherof those? Is some other company truely paying people to open these threads every day?

[Vorality]

And how do you know it is rushed? Are you on the inside? No, you are declaring it rushed solely because you don't like what you see, not based on any actual facts. Pure unsubstantiated theory.

Let's just use our brains for a second instead of arguing semantics like a child. First, let's define "rushed" in the video game sense. To push something out quickly into the hands of the players without preparation. Certainly, mechanics that are one-shotting other players has been -without a doubt- untested internally by the devs. Furthermore, many of these things have gone on like this for WEEKS. This would insinuate that they know it's unfinished, but they wanted to get the early version of that mechanic out for testing. This is completely normal and fair, but yes, rushed nevertheless.

I never said anything about "not liking" what I see. Hell, if you even bothered to read the rest of my post...I welcome Shadowlands in it's current iteration to that of BfA.
Lastly, I implore you to look at the definition of "unsubstantiated". What I've said isn't unsubstantiated, they're facts. These mechanics have been quickly pushed out into the players hands for testing (rushed), but simply need tuning...that is literally all I'm saying. No need to get your panties in a bunch. I don't need to be on the inside to recognize that there are many things absurdly broken in Shadowlands - far from release ready - aka rushed. We've seen this the last 2 expansions. All we can hope for now is that Blizzard is prepared to do a ton of balancing...if not, the first few weeks of Shadowlands is going to be a shit show...a much more fun shit show than BfA, though.

Time to stop blindly following the word of Blizzard when they've done nothing but let us down and not listen to our feedback for the whole of BfA. Look around everywhere on the internet..... this expansion is being rushed without a doubt.

[VinceVega]

Title and Poll assume that it is not going to be in a good state when launching as planned. The poll especially makes that clear. One either agrees with your assumption or one does not care for quality. No option exists for "It will be fine on launch", because you do not care for that opinion. All you wanted is an echo chamber for your negativity.

And by the Old Gods, did we really need yet anotherof those? Is some other company truely paying people to open these threads every day?

Welcome to MMO-Champion
And yes you are right. I don't even know ehy he thinks it is rushed in the first place. If at all they allready delayed it.

[SirBeef]

What's that?

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Balance does seem to be Blizzards Achilles heel.

Balance is everyone's heel. Not one game that does not have 100% homogenized classes/gameplay will have balance issues. You will always have classes/specs that outperform others in certain areas. Just accept this and move on. As a tester, the game will be just fine come launch. But then you all say stuff like delay until it's ready as if every launch including vanilla was smooth and launched with no issues including balance. Which is wrong.

[Orwell7]

Duh, there is nothing new under the sun.
If you carefully inspect the release date of expansions or major patches, you can find that Blizzard makes it's decision based on market trends - ie if something big contender is coming, they will release a patch/expansion right before it.

Just like now, with AC Valhalla, Cyberpunk and the PS5. They want to make addicts for WoW before they get addicted to something else.
So far, it works

[keldarepewpew]

Yes they are. You don’t seem to understand how companies work. Few if any are not owned by another.

i grew up in a familly where every part of our life was in function of a big multinational i know exactly how they work. i was show the process of finding new promising companies buying them for some new discovery they made and then suckingf the life out of them untill they were shutdown.

[Levogames]

I want it good, I don't want it balanced. Broken shit is the best to enjoy playing.

[korijenkins]

They should, but they never will. Kotick needs his 9th yacht.

Be careful, the white knights are sensitive and might be upset by this factual statement.

[Geckoo]

As much as i'm tempted to say that they should delay it and finish it... it's an MMORPG, it will never be finished, it will never be perfectly balanced. It never has.

As a customer i'm willing to navigate their mess for a while, and i guess they count on it, but if i don't see some changes in a few months after launch, i'll just take my money somewhere else.

[Raisei]

Time to stop blindly following the word of Blizzard when they've done nothing but let us down and not listen to our feedback for the whole of BfA. Look around everywhere on the internet..... this expansion is being rushed without a doubt.

I love how you make a big post trying to sound reasonable only to destroy any measure of credibility with that last statement. People really really need to stop confusing "Blizzard isn't doing what I want and I know more about this game then them!" with "Blizzard is letting us down, never listening to feedback!"

Blizzard has changed numerous things in the last months alone because of feedback, so just stop parotting this childish nonesense.

[Vorality]

I love how you make a big post trying to sound reasonable only to destroy any measure of credibility with that last statement. People really really need to stop confusing "Blizzard isn't doing what I want and I know more about this game then them!" with "Blizzard is letting us down, never listening to feedback!"

Blizzard has changed numerous things in the last months alone because of feedback, so just stop parotting this childish nonesense.

Way to put words in my mouth! Never said Blizzard isn't doing what I want them to do, nor did I state that I know more about this game than* them. Yes, Blizzard has changed a few things in this past month - good! But my statement is more in regards to not backing down, not getting complacent. We should keep voicing our concerns so they can make this expansion the best possible. To say that they haven't been letting us down would be completely wrong. We've had two expansions now where they try to make all the changes that we've asked for the whole expansion within the last few months of the expansion. Simply unacceptable.

Out of curiosity, which huge changes have they made in your eyes that make it seem like they're learning from their past mistakes though?

PvP gearing is still bad..the trinket bonus is a half-assed fix that hardly does anything - a 4-5% increase of versatility that still requires you to go out and get all the best versatility gear (mostly from PvE) and even then PvE trinkets will still be better.

There are still very large gaps in between covenant and conduit choices (10-25%) differences.

There are still an insane amount of borrowed power that significantly closes the skill gap between players (this is a bad thing).

These are all things the community has been preaching from the get-go, btw. No significant changes have been made, nor does it seem like there's any clear path to get to a more balanced game.

This game releases in 30 days by the way. So please tell me how I destroyed any credibility by stating not to continually blindly trusting Blizzard? LOL

[rrayy]

Exactly and you dont think that influences decisions overall? You'd be quite naive to believe it doesn't, and if you do, there's really no discussion to be had anyhow
I, for one, remembers blizzards motto growing up and it was release when they think its ready and that doesn't really exist anymore. Warcraft reforged is just one example xD

No it doesn't. Blizzard will be profitable whether they release Shadowlands now, or in 2021. This whole notion that stockholders are going to be mad if Shadowlands doesn't release now is ridiculous because stockholders do not care when a specific game releases. They only care that when the quarter report comes, the company as a whole has a profit. WoW is not the only game Blizzard has and they are all making money. The only one who is naive is the one that uses "stockholders" in their argument to begin with.

[TriHard]

I think they should delay it by however many months they need, ship it in early 2021 instead, if they launch SL as it is now, then we're looking at a WoD 3.0, I don't think that's the way to go.

I decided not to buy SL cuz ngl, still salty about there not being any class reworks or new classes, but I still follow development of the game in case something might change.
And it's going the way I predicted, I do not think this'll be a good expansion.

[rrayy]

Let's just use our brains for a second instead of arguing semantics like a child. First, let's define "rushed" in the video game sense. To push something out quickly into the hands of the players without preparation. Certainly, mechanics that are one-shotting other players has been -without a doubt- untested internally by the devs. Furthermore, many of these things have gone on like this for WEEKS. This would insinuate that they know it's unfinished, but they wanted to get the early version of that mechanic out for testing. This is completely normal and fair, but yes, rushed nevertheless.

You aren't doing anything but arbitrarily picking things that fit your narrative to claim it is rushed. You are making unsubstantiated accusations against Blzziard because you are trying to equate correlation to causation. You know nothing about what they are thinking. You are declaring what they have to think you you can claim it is rushed.

I never said anything about "not liking" what I see. Hell, if you even bothered to read the rest of my post...I welcome Shadowlands in it's current iteration to that of BfA.
Lastly, I implore you to look at the definition of "unsubstantiated". What I've said isn't unsubstantiated, they're facts. These mechanics have been quickly pushed out into the players hands for testing (rushed), but simply need tuning...that is literally all I'm saying. No need to get your panties in a bunch. I don't need to be on the inside to recognize that there are many things absurdly broken in Shadowlands - far from release ready - aka rushed. We've seen this the last 2 expansions. All we can hope for now is that Blizzard is prepared to do a ton of balancing...if not, the first few weeks of Shadowlands is going to be a shit show...a much more fun shit show than BfA, though.

Not explicitly, but your posts heavily imply it. And yes you do have to be on the inside to know because otherwise you know nothing and are simply declaing things to push your narrative.

Time to stop blindly following the word of Blizzard when they've done nothing but let us down and not listen to our feedback for the whole of BfA. Look around everywhere on the internet..... this expansion is being rushed without a doubt.

Who is the "us" you speak of? You only speak for you. I do look around the internet. You have provided zero actual evidnce of it being rushed. I don't like what I see does not = rushed.

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It seems that you forgot what BfA was like at launch. (Spoiler alert, it was better than the beta currently is)

I do remember BFA launch. To me it was smooth as silk and this Beta has been far more smooth than any other beta at this point. So, no it was not better than Beta is at this point.

[Vorality]

You aren't doing anything but arbitrarily picking things that fit your narrative to claim it is rushed. You are making unsubstantiated accusations against Blzziard because you are trying to equate correlation to causation. You know nothing about what they are thinking. You are declaring what they have to think you you can claim it is rushed.


Not explicitly, but your posts heavily imply it. And yes you do have to be on the inside to know because otherwise you know nothing and are simply declaing things to push your narrative.

Who is the "us" you speak of? You only speak for you. I do look around the internet. You have provided zero actual evidnce of it being rushed. I don't like what I see does not = rushed.

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I do remember BFA launch. To me it was smooth as silk and this Beta has been far more smooth than any other beta at this point. So, no it was not better than Beta is at this point.

Again, you're arguing semantics. What world are you living in where the things I've stated aren't true and only fit MY narrative - as if it isn't everyone's that plays this game LOL. In any logical game sense - if something isn't intended, it's either bugged or was pushed out too early for any reasonable use (AKA RUSHED).

You do not have to be on the inside of something to speak of it. That's completely nonsense. You're implying that I have to be on the dev team to understand that me one shotting a team of 3 as a LONE marksman hunter is perfectly fine? No, that's just MY narrative...definitely not something we'll all experience if it doesn't get fixed! HAHA.

When I say "Us"...I'm speaking of the general population of WoW players. Unless you've been living under a rock, most players wanted a better way to obtain legendaries in Legion. Most players wanted a better way to obtain azerite essences and corruptions. Most players saw the amount of borrowed power within all these systems that drove away from class design. Again, all failures by Blizzard - all bandaid fixed at the end of these expansions.

Clearly you don't now what you're talking about and are just trying to argue just for the sake of arguing. You've offered no real insight on any of your posts other than calling me out for something that you don't think is true, where I've explained my reasoning and provided evidence of such happenings, but you just refuse to believe it.

Instead of saying that I'm pushing a narrative and providing unsubstantiated evidence...please link me or refute my reasoning with facts. Show me that Blizzard listened to their community the last two expansions. Show me that covenant and conduit choices are within a 5% margin of one another. Show me class balance (NOT EVEN GOOD CLASS BALANCE) just show me "balance" that isn't BROKEN.

Google shamans one shotting, rogues one shotting, mass spell reflect lasting 15 seconds on your whole team with a 25 second cooldown, hunters one shotting, monks one shotting. Hybrid classes healing better than healers. Tanks healing better than healers and doing more damage than dps. Yes, all of these things are my narrative and mine only. You and no one else will experience this if you play the game right now. NOT!

[TheTaurenChieftain]

Many WoW players are so addicted to WoW they would even take a fundamentally broken and unfinished product just to have something to keep them occupied.

If you don't care anymore that you get something good or polished as long as you get something (even if it is just breadcrumps of it), this gets pretty close to an addiction. And there are too many aspects in the Beta that need to be fixed.

The product could at least need two more months to fix a lot of the problems.

Right now Shadowlands seems to be very low-effort and just an extension of what we have seen in BFA. The only thing I personally care about is the customization. This is the only REAL big feature for me. Even if there could be done a lot more.

But I could honestly wait a lot of time if they would invest this time to do more polish or completely overhaul the Covenant system (or at least add a Covenant which Orcs, Trolls and Tauren can identify with. Because Night Fae does scream Night Elf more than anything else).

Edit: I personally don't really care about balance at all. I just want the game to be fun to play and enjoy the gameplay. But I think most of the features are just re-designed BFA things without any innovative energy behind it.

[Raisei]

Way to put words in my mouth! Never said Blizzard isn't doing what I want them to do, nor did I state that I know more about this game than* them. Yes, Blizzard has changed a few things in this past month - good! But my statement is more in regards to not backing down, not getting complacent. We should keep voicing our concerns so they can make this expansion the best possible. To say that they haven't been letting us down would be completely wrong. We've had two expansions now where they try to make all the changes that we've asked for the whole expansion within the last few months of the expansion. Simply unacceptable.

I really doubt there is any need to encourage anyone to complain more. The complaints haven't stopped for a day ever since the bloody announcement at Blizzcon. Every part of the game has been cried over repeatedly, it's nothing but noise by now. It would be better to complain less and with more reason and quality instead.
And again, just because you and your equals think they know how the game is supposed to be, does not mean that your opinion is a fact. You can demand changes, but Blizzard has no obligation to implement them if they do not agree with them.

As for implementing things in the last months of the expansion. You are completely misunderstading this part, they are removing restrictions at the end of the expansion to increase fun and allow for some crazy stuff to happen, when it does not matter anymore. Like how my DK can now run around with nearly 200% Haste and a friend playing Fire Mage can deal 300k+ dps on a big bull. It's not that they "realize too late that everything the players say is right", it's the equivalent of throwing out the rules and allowing the players to have fun in the months until the real content happens.

Out of curiosity, which huge changes have they made in your eyes that make it seem like they're learning from their past mistakes though?

1) Compare Legions Artifact Power System to BFAs for starters. Legions first few month were hell to have alts or even an offspec, since none of the Artifact Power was shared and there was no catch-up for alts. In BFA we had a shared collection of AP + immediatedly implemented catch up for alts.

2) Legion legendaries were a pain to get and you could get so horrendously fragged by RNG it was disgusting. Now we get to craft Legendaries, not random ones, but the ones we want.

Just two examples of clear improvements.

PvP gearing is still bad..the trinket bonus is a half-assed fix that hardly does anything - a 4-5% increase of versatility that still requires you to go out and get all the best versatility gear (mostly from PvE) and even then PvE trinkets will still be better.

PvPers need to stop crying over the fact that they have to play the main game to be efficient. PvP is a mini-game in a PvE focussed game. Just like PvEers had to grind through honor to get Blood of the Enemy, you will have to grind through PvE, because that is what the game is about. PvPers have no right to special treatment and the best loot in the game for free just because they "only wanna do arenas".

There are still very large gaps in between covenant and conduit choices (10-25%) differences.

And the tuning is happening as we speak. Like there was a blue post about it yesterday...

There are still an insane amount of borrowed power that significantly closes the skill gap between players (this is a bad thing).

Classes also close the skill gap between players, Gear does too. Or are you telling me that the removal of "borrowed power" will make it feel better that a Hunter with a 3-Button rotation is doing as much or more DPS then a UH DK with 7-8 Buttons?

Blizzard has actually flat out stated that there are classes that are easier to play by design (DH for example). It's not a mistake, Blizzard wants people to be having fun, so they are not punishing people for being less skilled to the extend that those people can not be taken in higher level content. The truely good players are still stronger then the rest, borrowed power or not.

These are all things the community has been preaching from the get-go, btw. No significant changes have been made, nor does it seem like there's any clear path to get to a more balanced game.

As I pointed out above, the community is preaching about everything, every day for over a year. There is not a single piece of news about SLs that has not been ripped apart by someone.
Blizzard has been adopting the things they agree with and made changes. They just do not agree with all of the nonsense that gets produced by the self-appointed masters of game-design we have on this forum and thank the Old Gods for that.

People just like to think they are uniquely qualified and should be heard above all others and when it does not happen they throw tantrums. That is all there is to this.

[uncl55]

Yes! more BFA please! "roll eyes like crazy"

[Raisei]

Many WoW players are so addicted to WoW they would even take a fundamentally broken and unfinished product just to have something to keep them occupied.

If you don't care anymore that you get something good or polished as long as you get something (even if it is just breadcrumps of it), this gets pretty close to an addiction. And there are too many aspects in the Beta that need to be fixed.

Sure, now people that do not constantly feel the urge to complain and have Ion fired are addicts, incapable of rational thought. Dayum.

Being positive about anything is wrong in this forum, I know that much, but this is next level.

[exsanguinate]

Playing the beta for 1 month know and it feels far from done, even with 1 month til release.