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  1. #1

    Are warriors good tanks at all? (SL)

    Hi,

    After years of healing I wanna go back to tank. So right now I'm trying to find the right tank and this is not about 'meta', but this also is not about "It doesn't matter, if you aren't top 100 guild". Let's just asume all tanks were perfectly balanced in stats and all that matters is gameplay.

    The tanks I'm trying to compare are
    Pally/Dk/Warrior and while I know the first two pretty good I just can't find what's good on Protection Warriors. Really. In raiding, what's good about Prot Warrior?

    Raiding his usually pretty static so all his mobility seems pretty wasted for me (and beside from that, the mobility from Paladin is enough in m+). Also he doesn't have alot selfheal and can't mitigate damage spikes as good as the other tanks. Also his damage is pretty low right now, but for the sake of fnding the 'fun' let's say he does just as much damage as the other tanks. I also think the utilities a warrior brings are pretty crappy. AoE Spellreflect seems like a niche talent.

    So what is the point of playing protection warrior in Shadowlands? Don't get me wrong. I think i'm just bad with him, but somehow he seems to lack something. I wish I could find a reason why I should pick warrior and not Paladin or DK. Paladin is just too much sparkle for me and DK is slow what doesn't make him bad, but it's boring.

    I would go to the venthyr and maybe condemn is the one skill he is missing to increase the fun, but I doubt that.
    Last edited by Inukashi; 2020-09-23 at 10:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Warrior tank was one of the best in BFA, both in terms of damage and mitigation. Definitely sounds like a 'you need to play yours better' issue.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Warrior tank was one of the best in BFA, both in terms of damage and mitigation. Definitely sounds like a 'you need to play yours better' issue.
    I know I need to play mine better, but my question was, what does a warrior bring gameplay wise in a raid, pallys and dks don't.

  4. #4
    without the azerite traits and corruption, i expect warrior tank to be supersucky. Been maining warrior since release. planning a reroll to a warlock or rogue for the first time.

    death knights are the bet atm.
    Last edited by Gref; 2020-09-23 at 11:17 PM.

  5. #5
    Not sure, but Into the Fray really helps early in the gear levels. Free haste is a godsend.

  6. #6
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inukashi View Post
    I know I need to play mine better, but my question was, what does a warrior bring gameplay wise in a raid, pallys and dks don't.
    I feel like you should know these things, but here you go:

    Battle Shout, provides direct damage buff to all physical dps classes

    Extremely high AOE damage (it isn't uncommon for warrior tanks to outdps actual dps on large pulls)

    Rallying Cry, a raid-wide temporary health increase that is highly useful during phases with unavoidable AOE damage

    Superior mitigation against physical damage with Shield Block/Critical Block/Last Stand block talent, and Ignore Pain for everything else

    Tremendous mobility which is useful for picking up adds, kiting, getting out of bad shit on the ground, etc

    Shockwave, a frontal AOE stun that is indispensable in Mythic+ and has a talent that rewards accurate/skilled use of the ability

    Shadowlands brings Shattering Throw, Execute and Whirlwind back to Protection warriors

    Multiple ways to deal with casters - interrupts, Spell Reflect, stuns, Intimidating Shout
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  7. #7
    Protection Warrior has seen major changes coming into SL - with 99% of them being terrible.

    A few additionally utility spells doesn't make up for the complete gutting the spec has received in comparison to BFA.

    Anger Management no longer reduces Last Stand CD - coupled with Bolster and AM now being on the same talent line - leads to periods of warriors having no active mitigation, as both talents are fundamental to the success of prot warrior.

    This combined with their lackluster self sustain and the fact that they are taking huge amounts of damage compared to other tanks currently means they will be in the dumpster for the majority of SL.

    DK is currently the only S Teir Tank - with Veng/Brew and now Guardian (after recent buffs but struggles heavily with magic mitigation) being the next in line.

    Paladin is in 5th Place, with Warrior left in the dust.
    Last edited by Altpaladin; 2020-09-23 at 11:38 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Altpaladin View Post
    Protection Warrior has seen major changes coming into SL - with 99% of them being terrible.

    A few additionally utility spells doesn't make up for the complete gutting the spec has received in comparison to BFA.

    Anger Management no longer reduces Last Stand CD - coupled with Bolster and AM now being on the same talent line - leads to periods of warriors having no active mitigation, as both talents are fundamental to the success of prot warrior.

    This combined with their lackluster self sustain and the fact that they are taking huge amounts of damage compared to other tanks currently means they will be in the dumpster for the majority of SL.

    DK is currently the only S Teir Tank - with Veng/Brew and now Guardian (after recent buffs but struggles heavily with magic mitigation) being the next in line.

    Paladin is in 5th Place, with Warrior left in the dust.
    Really? A'ccording to about 8 youtube videos I have watched in the past week or so. DK Is S, BM is A, pally and druid are now B, with warrior and dh both being D since the vengeance nerfs were so absurd.

  9. #9
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altpaladin View Post
    Protection Warrior has seen major changes coming into SL - with 99% of them being terrible.

    A few additionally utility spells doesn't make up for the complete gutting the spec has received in comparison to BFA.

    Anger Management no longer reduces Last Stand CD - coupled with Bolster and AM now being on the same talent line - leads to periods of warriors having no active mitigation, as both talents are fundamental to the success of prot warrior.

    This combined with their lackluster self sustain and the fact that they are taking huge amounts of damage compared to other tanks currently means they will be in the dumpster for the majority of SL.

    DK is currently the only S Teir Tank - with Veng/Brew and now Guardian (after recent buffs but struggles heavily with magic mitigation) being the next in line.

    Paladin is in 5th Place, with Warrior left in the dust.
    Oh lord. A skilled warrior tank will still be an awesome tank to have in your raid, and that will still be true even with a handful of less-than-ideal changes. I've tanked a lot of the level 60 content on beta, and guess what? At no point did I feel like 'AHH I AM SO TERRIBLE I SHOULD REROLL!!!!'

    I realize that "<insert class here> isn't exactly the way I think it should be, the sky is falling!" is a popular stance around here, but yeah. Warriors will be fine.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Subrias View Post
    Really? A'ccording to about 8 youtube videos I have watched in the past week or so. DK Is S, BM is A, pally and druid are now B, with warrior and dh both being D since the vengeance nerfs were so absurd.
    anyone making tier lists for classes that change every week during beta is wasting their time.

  11. #11
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    anyone making tier lists for classes that change every week during beta is wasting their time.
    wasting their time? more like capitalizing on free content they can update with videos people watch every week. More money for them tbh.

  12. #12
    All tank classes are good tanks, it just takes a solid player to make use of their skills. Any list you see will change on a dime if someone finds some OP combo, suddenly that worthless class becomes FOM based on stuff that was always there.

  13. #13
    Short answer: Prot will not provide anything that would be a step up above the other tanks at launch. Unless there are fights that align with all of Prots strengths.
    Last edited by Sammonoske; 2020-09-26 at 02:57 AM.

  14. #14
    watching people doing +10 keys i don't see the prot warrior players - the players taht actually know the class, not some blood dk main playing trying all of the tank classes to push views - doing far better than the other tanks.

    sure it's changed, and sure they have more keybinds required than any other tank, but a master of the class seems to be doing just fine.

  15. #15
    They are pretty trash and they feel bad to play. Condemn isn't viable because you can't spend rage on it over mitigation and as far as I can tell doesn't have a significant threat modifier. It either needs a massive threat modifier or to be a generator for prot.

  16. #16
    Legendary! Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Shadowlands brings Shattering Throw, Execute and Whirlwind back to Protection warriors
    For Protection atm, WW is basically useless. It deals less damage then Revenge, costs more rage, and hits less targets then Revenge. Basically there for RP purposes only.

    Shattering Throw will probably wind up having a niche use on a boss or two throughout the expansion for the increased damage to shields. It's highly unlikely that it's ability to break immunities will be useful in a PvE situation.

    Execute is a solid damage increase for Prot warriors in raiding situations when off-tanking. It's a shame that it's the Arms variant of Execute instead of Fury's variant - Givng Prot Fury's Execute would be absolutely amazing, allowing Prot a DPS and HPS increase when fighting low health targets.
    Last edited by Raugnaut; 2020-09-26 at 03:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  17. #17
    In any game version, Warrior is the best tank. Paladin and DK are in the second priority of the tank, But no way to be the main tank.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kane8907 View Post
    In any game version, Warrior is the best tank. Paladin and DK are in the second priority of the tank, But no way to be the main tank.
    huh?warrior has in no way been the best tank in every expansion,monk and druid have dominated most of the time,and even in the expansions where warrior was rly good,there were still figths where other tanks did better,warrior has been good in mythic plus mostly because of the dmg,but mitigation wise and self sustain they have always been at the bottom,besides tbc

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kane8907 View Post
    In any game version, Warrior is the best tank. Paladin and DK are in the second priority of the tank, But no way to be the main tank.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kane8907 View Post
    In any game version, Warrior is the best tank. Paladin and DK are in the second priority of the tank, But no way to be the main tank.
    All tanks have huge ups and downs and really as far as bleeding edge raid content it's mostly been DK/Monk meta for a very long time given that one has sustain and the other just doesn't really die as long as the healers are alive.

    The more interesting tank meta is in the M+ scene where more often than not damage is king over everything else. Sadly all the AoE capping is throwing a lot of stuff for a loop and warriors who were kings through BfA because of damage, sustain, mitigation, mobility, etc well, we just don't have that same mojo. Maybe once conduits are all balanced and with certain covenants we can get back up there but I doubt it.

    Balancing is still in flux, but they've definitely decided that the warrior's time to shine was BfA and M+ tanking will be ruled by someone else. Probably DK given combat rez, anti-magic zone and their crazy self healing.

    Also I'll go ahead and say it, for the most part raid tanking is the easiest job, then melee dps, then ranged dps, then healing in order of difficulty. M+ is really where good tanking shines, though what you are going to look for in an M+ tank is often different than what you would in a raid tank too.

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