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  1. #61
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    When and how were Night Elves these fierce forest guerilla warriors? I never got that impression from WC3
    "Lie repeated 1000 times becomes truth".

    The whole "savage night elves" was always players fantasy and massive overinterpretation of few lines rather than part of their personality.

  2. #62
    [QUOTE=Narwhalosh Whalescream;52670311]Blood elves used to be mana junkies doing fel, bloodthistle and forcibly bending the light to their will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Blood elves used to be mana junkies doing fel, bloodthistle and forcibly bending the light to their will.
    Night elves used to be savage women guerilla fighters.

    Oh come on, I would excuse that if you had just come into warcraft by playing WC3 and TBC, but you should know their is far more to those races than that, just because the game intro of them had those stories and portrayals predominant, did not mean that was what they were about.


    Night elf lore shows you extensive pre-sundering high arcane magkc, with Highborne, Moonguard and that stuff still going on, then Illidan and the demon hnters show you very edgy night elves, quite gutsy, not afraid at all of fel corruption, and willing to embrace corruptive magic but for a noble purpose at high cost to themselves, and last but not least, classic wow showed you druidism was a major thing amongst them, and in fact the dominant part of the Darnassian culture


    Blood elves were even more complex, they are high elves, with all the high society, utopia they rebuilt in their own image, and the genocide of the scourge that had drastic consequences to define them, that journey ssaw Blood knighs and light users being redeemed from that destructive patch, saw the Sunwell restored at the eend of it.




    I mean I don't get it, wthe stories are quite clear, why would you expect blood elf addiction and crack abuse to be around with the Sunwell actually restored? Why would you expect night elves to continue being forest dwelling savage maidens without their magic with the Legion gone?


    WC3, and TBC ended the stories that showed why you met the night elves and blood elves in those states, just exactly like Legion ended the story of why you met the Nightborne in that state, why would you expect it to carry on?


    Surely the resolution allows a conclusion and a new beginning? And whiles that history would forever be a part of that race, so if you liked it it's ther, surely you have to agree tha if it doesn't change in 14 years, then it's a bit too stale right?

    I can guarntee you, just being savage female maidens or junkie addict spoilt brats would also get broging fast. This way they can be elements in those races even if generally they've both moved on to new places.

    At the end of the day, it may help if you actually try to think of what the developers inteneded. Do you think they introduced night elves just to be female savage warriors? If so why did WC3 give them an arcane magical heritage in the manual and a glorious civilization? And why did the reason for banning the arcane end with the conclusion of WC3? Why did highborne and illidari and druid male night elves play major roles in current affairs?

    Answer: Because what you saw of the maidens is not the only thing or even necessarily the main thing of the night elf race or even the Darnassian faction.

    Same thing with the blood elves. Do you think they were created to be mana junkies Elves? No, they're high elves but with fallibilities to them, or do you think the intetnion was for mana junkies to be the main fallibility forever? If so why conclude that arc by restoring the sunwell in hat very same expansion? Because they were meant to be more. They were the story of the high elves continuing on a different path from what they were pre-scourge invasion. And those that remain high elves in name were the story of those who did not change after the scourge nvasion but retained their original ideals.


    It's a long term thing you know

    - - - Updated - - -

    These two races were introduced with huge back stories to them, which means their intro point was never meant to be all they were about, just a point along their progression or at a significant turning point. For night elves the turning point was the return of the Legion, the thing they had watched for for 10k years, finally happenns, the way of life of isolation, nature exclusive living without arcane magic, no civilization all ends with this - it might be the state you meet them in, but it's usrely nowt how yo uwould expect them to remain.

    The same with the blood elves, whose ntro shows a major turing point from the high elves of old, after a genocide experience and destruction of their Sunwell, the story hence forth is a journey that defines what blood elf means and is becoming, as they take their place in the world as change people.


    It won't remain the same.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  3. #63
    [QUOTE=ravenmoon;52673734]
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Blood elves used to be mana junkies doing fel, bloodthistle and forcibly bending the light to their will.



    Oh come on, I would excuse that if you had just come into warcraft by playing WC3 and TBC, but you should know their is far more to those races than that, just because the game intro of them had those stories and portrayals predominant, did not mean that was what they were about.


    Night elf lore shows you extensive pre-sundering high arcane magkc, with Highborne, Moonguard and that stuff still going on, then Illidan and the demon hnters show you very edgy night elves, quite gutsy, not afraid at all of fel corruption, and willing to embrace corruptive magic but for a noble purpose at high cost to themselves, and last but not least, classic wow showed you druidism was a major thing amongst them, and in fact the dominant part of the Darnassian culture


    Blood elves were even more complex, they are high elves, with all the high society, utopia they rebuilt in their own image, and the genocide of the scourge that had drastic consequences to define them, that journey ssaw Blood knighs and light users being redeemed from that destructive patch, saw the Sunwell restored at the eend of it.




    I mean I don't get it, wthe stories are quite clear, why would you expect blood elf addiction and crack abuse to be around with the Sunwell actually restored? Why would you expect night elves to continue being forest dwelling savage maidens without their magic with the Legion gone?


    WC3, and TBC ended the stories that showed why you met the night elves and blood elves in those states, just exactly like Legion ended the story of why you met the Nightborne in that state, why would you expect it to carry on?


    Surely the resolution allows a conclusion and a new beginning? And whiles that history would forever be a part of that race, so if you liked it it's ther, surely you have to agree tha if it doesn't change in 14 years, then it's a bit too stale right?

    I can guarntee you, just being savage female maidens or junkie addict spoilt brats would also get broging fast. This way they can be elements in those races even if generally they've both moved on to new places.

    At the end of the day, it may help if you actually try to think of what the developers inteneded. Do you think they introduced night elves just to be female savage warriors? If so why did WC3 give them an arcane magical heritage in the manual and a glorious civilization? And why did the reason for banning the arcane end with the conclusion of WC3? Why did highborne and illidari and druid male night elves play major roles in current affairs?

    Answer: Because what you saw of the maidens is not the only thing or even necessarily the main thing of the night elf race or even the Darnassian faction.

    Same thing with the blood elves. Do you think they were created to be mana junkies Elves? No, they're high elves but with fallibilities to them, or do you think the intetnion was for mana junkies to be the main fallibility forever? If so why conclude that arc by restoring the sunwell in hat very same expansion? Because they were meant to be more. They were the story of the high elves continuing on a different path from what they were pre-scourge invasion. And those that remain high elves in name were the story of those who did not change after the scourge nvasion but retained their original ideals.


    It's a long term thing you know

    - - - Updated - - -

    These two races were introduced with huge back stories to them, which means their intro point was never meant to be all they were about, just a point along their progression or at a significant turning point. For night elves the turning point was the return of the Legion, the thing they had watched for for 10k years, finally happenns, the way of life of isolation, nature exclusive living without arcane magic, no civilization all ends with this - it might be the state you meet them in, but it's usrely nowt how yo uwould expect them to remain.

    The same with the blood elves, whose ntro shows a major turing point from the high elves of old, after a genocide experience and destruction of their Sunwell, the story hence forth is a journey that defines what blood elf means and is becoming, as they take their place in the world as change people.


    It won't remain the same.
    Doesn't matter when at the end blood elves became just humans with long ears and night elves became trophy wives for humans.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post

    Doesn't matter when at the end blood elves became just humans with long ears and night elves became trophy wives for humans.
    Ravenmoon doesn’t get it. Blizzard hasn’t stuck to their complex far more interesting vision for either elf groups.

    They’ve literally cut night elves down to savage wood elves and blood elves to light junkies. But he and his bestie Mace insists on viewing them including their earlier lore when it’s clear blizzard scrapped it all. They even retconning Chronicles.

    Everything else about them is marginalised trivia left in whatever lore book or game version they had limelight.

    it’s boring so they can focus on humans and Ftm undead Sylvanas cos of the huge necromancer boner

    And all races and the game will feel like that. Monotone. They whittled 13 races into two main races - horde races and alliance race. Then homogenised them. Or did you not noticed how alliance got a war chief Calle high kigg BG.

    Then the horde became a council of equals like the alliance was.

    They literally are turning Warcraft into traditional DnD and Warhammer tropes knock off.

    Humans became an empire, Night elves became pure wood elves, dwarves boring. - actually they just turned the alliance into regular fantasy trope - the horde is definitely more interesting.

    But homogenising then into faction only sucks. They successful managed to turn something unique into homogenised standard boring mess.
    Last edited by Beloren; 2020-09-26 at 02:55 PM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    When and how were Night Elves these fierce forest guerilla warriors? I never got that impression from WC3
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    "Lie repeated 1000 times becomes truth".

    The whole "savage night elves" was always players fantasy and massive overinterpretation of few lines rather than part of their personality.
    They were literally amazon forest warriors. It ain't just player fantasy, that was the entire point of it.

  6. #66
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    3 villages
    5 actually, there's one more in the Mur'gul Waterfall, and then the Furbolg Village
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Horde's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    5 actually, there's one more in the Mur'gul Waterfall, and then the Furbolg Village
    Tyrande and Malfurion need to be deposed and replaced with Maiev.

  8. #68
    I am Murloc! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Which is why void elves are objectively the best, I've been saying this for 3 years.
    Hentai elves are generic.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Ravenmoon doesn’t get it. Blizzard hasn’t stuck to their complex far more interesting vision for either elf groups.

    They’ve literally cut night elves down to savage wood elves and blood elves to light junkies. But he and his bestie Mace insists on viewing them including their earlier lore when it’s clear blizzard scrapped it all. They even retconning Chronicles.

    Everything else about them is marginalised trivia left in whatever lore book or game version they had limelight.

    it’s boring so they can focus on humans and Ftm undead Sylvanas cos of the huge necromancer boner

    And all races and the game will feel like that. Monotone. They whittled 13 races into two main races - horde races and alliance race. Then homogenised them. Or did you not noticed how alliance got a war chief Calle high kigg BG.

    Then the horde became a council of equals like the alliance was.

    They literally are turning Warcraft into traditional DnD and Warhammer tropes knock off.

    Humans became an empire, Night elves became pure wood elves, dwarves boring. - actually they just turned the alliance into regular fantasy trope - the horde is definitely more interesting.

    But homogenising then into faction only sucks. They successful managed to turn something unique into homogenised standard boring mess.
    there's a blizzcon conference from 2006 if i remember correctly where metzen literally says that night elves are warcraft's wood elves

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Hentai elves are generic.
    Wrong void elves are the most unique race in the game, as well they are led by the most interesting Alliance character by far. You will see, when the great Void Lords invade.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  11. #71
    why are elves, hunans and dwarves considered boring?

  12. #72
    I am Murloc! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Wrong void elves are the most unique race in the game, as well they are led by the most interesting Alliance character by far. You will see, when the great Void Lords invade.
    I beg to differ, them thick people from Kul'Tiras are.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    there's a blizzcon conference from 2006 if i remember correctly where metzen literally says that night elves are warcraft's wood elves
    I don't think the guy who created night elves to be this massive multi faceted race, would mean they were only wood elves, I hope that's not what you are thinking, cos if so I think your context might be off. Wood elf elements are not unique to night elves at all, just as magic is not unique to blood elves. Farstriders are definitely wood elf if you ask me, and Night elves always had more than wood elves - or do you consider Illidari, Highborne, and all the pre-sundering lore - wood elf? No. But that's the past. I will agree with the NElf besties that night elves were originally more than wood elves, but that's all they've become now. I saw the earlier interviews, the lore in WotA, etc. You may have mis-understood him, he probably meant ot say the wood elf trope exists within the night elves - cos back then they were clearly more than that if you factor in their lore.

    I suspect that they were enigmatic because of this past that wasn't explained in the opening quests, and you were to discover that night elves had an arcane origin and highly civilized past, after catching up with WC3 events .. but i think they scrapped the character personal quest that was going to be based on race.

    But does it matter? They're definitely wood elves now.
    Last edited by Beloren; 2020-09-26 at 05:56 PM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I think your context might be off. Farstriders are definitely wood elf if you ask me, and Night elves always had more than wood elves - or do you consider Illidari, Highborne, and all the pre-sundering lore - wood elf? No. But that's the past. I will agree with the NElf besties that night elves were originally more than wood elves, but that's all they've become. I saw the earlier interviews, the lore in WotA, etc. You may have mis-understood him, he probably meant ot say the wood elf trope exists within the night elves - cos back then they were clearly more than that if you factor in their lore.

    I suspect that they were enigmatic because of this past that wasn't explained in the opening quests, and you were to discover that night elves had an arcane origin and highly civilized past, after catching up with WC3 events .. but i think they scrapped the character personal quest that was going to be based on race.

    But does it matter? They're definitely wood elves now.

    447/5000
    and what is the problem that they are wood elves? They have their own unique characteristics as well.

    about the alliance becoming an empire the same thing was happening after WC2 with lordaeron being imperialist which made Gilneas and Quelthalas leave the alliance, that they return to retake that concept is great.

    having the horde advice is a good thing because horde players are tired of them always making an evil warchief

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    447/5000
    and what is the problem that they are wood elves? They have their own unique characteristics as well.
    It's BORING if that's all they are.. it's been done to DEATH.. we don't need another wood elf clone - and originally, they were much more than that. They felt like a real race, like most of the warcraft races were.

    Blizzard just seems to have gone fuck it, let's just reduce them all to cliches and forget about when we tried to make them interesting.

    IT's a bit harsh, but the foucs has now switched to faction identity, and faction race. Where the "other races" just feel a niche. Night elves are the nature buffs, draenei the priest ones, dwarves the angry warriors or archaeologists, gnomes the engineers, humans can do everything.

    humans have all the diversity, you can think of them as great mages, great priests, great warriors, great paladins, great rogues, great hunters, everything - do you not see what is WRONG with just pegging night elves to wood elves or draenei to holy priests?

    Do you not see the same thing is being done to the blood elves, the arcane fantasy is eroding, we're just light junkies now - if they could reduce night elves and Eredar to the pitiful showing that they are today, what makes you think when their fancy doesn't switch elsewhere they won't do the same to blood elves? Remember how boring the High elf fantasy was to a lot of people? Fine some like it I get it, but they became a whole lot more interesting when they did Blood elves - and through them we got fel elves, undead elves, void elves, it's good, but now blood elves are being cut to a niche, rather than being a diverse interesting group. This is boring. Why do you think I've been okay with high elves? My hope is that if high elves are around and fill that fantasy niche, blood elves can become more interesting. Those who like vanilla can flock to them, because that was what they were always meant to be. This is not the case for blood elves or night elves. They were meant to be so much more.

    You may not be hot on the alliance, I'm not, but I can see trends and patterns, if they can do it to one group they can do it the other, players should stand against this. Ask them to write more compelling things for the races.
    Last edited by Beloren; 2020-09-26 at 06:09 PM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    It's BORING if that's all they are.. it's been done to DEATH.. we don't need another wood elf clone - and originally, they were much more than that. They felt like a real race, like most of the warcraft races were.

    Blizzard just seems to have gone fuck it, let's just reduce them all to cliches and forget about when we tried to make them interesting.

    IT's a bit harsh, but the foucs has now switched to faction identity, and faction race. Where the "other races" just feel a niche. Night elves are the nature buffs, draenei the priest ones, dwarves the angry warriors or archaeologists, gnomes the engineers, humans can do everything.

    humans have all the diversity, you can think of them as great mages, great priests, great warriors, great paladins, great rogues, great hunters, everything - do you not see what is WRONG with just pegging night elves to wood elves or draenei to holy priests?

    Do you not see the same thing is being done to the blood elves, the arcane fantasy is eroding, we're just light junkies now - if they could reduce night elves and Eredar to the pitiful showing that they are today, what makes you think when their fancy doesn't switch elsewhere they won't do the same to blood elves? Remember how boring the High elf fantasy was to a lot of people? Fine some like it I get it, but they became a whole lot more interesting when they did Blood elves - and through them we got fel elves, undead elves, void elves, it's good, but now blood elves are being cut to a niche, rather than being a diverse interesting group. This is boring. Why do you think I've been okay with high elves? My hope is that if high elves are around and fill that fantasy niche, blood elves can become more interesting. Those who like vanilla can flock to them, because that was what they were always meant to be. This is not the case for blood elves or night elves. They were meant to be so much more.

    You may not be hot on the alliance, I'm not, but I can see trends and patterns, if they can do it to one group they can do it the other, players should stand against this. Ask them to write more compelling things for the races.
    light is an important factor in blood elf society long before the end of TBC liadrin was a priestess of light. There are characteristics of the blood elves that are recurrent like the rangers when we went to nazjatar the forces of the blood elves that I see there are ranger. in warfront I see mage night elves and wardens.

    blizzard's writing can be bad and I'm among the first to say it's bad writing but being wood elf isn't necessarily bad if someone writes it right! I like the wood elves from warhammer fantasy.

    the blood elves are high elves the interesting thing is to see the high elves on the side of the orcs and killing humans

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Wrong void elves are the most unique race in the game, as well they are led by the most interesting Alliance character by far. You will see, when the great Void Lords invade.
    Ahh now I realize we're not so different, you and I. We're different sides of the same coin. You stan Alleria an Void Elves, I stan Sylvanas and Undead. Bless.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    light is an important factor in blood elf society long before the end of TBC liadrin was a priestess of light. There are characteristics of the blood elves that are recurrent like the rangers when we went to nazjatar the forces of the blood elves that I see there are ranger. in warfront I see mage night elves and wardens.

    blizzard's writing can be bad and I'm among the first to say it's bad writing but being wood elf isn't necessarily bad if someone writes it right! I like the wood elves from warhammer fantasy.

    the blood elves are high elves the interesting thing is to see the high elves on the side of the orcs and killing humans
    Light is really only important to Liadrin. We see plenty of non-priest and non-paladin humans and other races saying things like "by the Light" or "Light help us" or something like that. Liadrin is the only blood elf I know of who ever mentions the Light from BC onward. Other elves say things like "by the Sunwell" but they said that sort of thing long before the Sunwell became a mix of light and arcane magic.

    The pillars of Blood Elven society I'd say are, as they've always been, arcane magic and rangers. Blood Knights seemed like they were the new most important thing in BC, but since then, Blizzard has let them rot, leaving only the remnants of the elves' arcane and Farstrider heritage in people's minds.

    Liadrin likes the Light and forbids her knights from siphoning from the Sunwell like they did from M'uru before. This means that any blood knights we see today using the Light are just good little lawful good boring human paladins like all the rest, drained of anything that made them unique. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a bunch of the knights were like "um, no" and left the order to pursue other avenues of power to serve Quel'thalas. I think it'd be cool for there to be some Blood Knights focusing on blood magic, arcane, or fel to augment their fighting, if they ever did something like class skins in WoW. Lots of Blood Knights leaving the group would explain why it's taken a backseat for so long apart from Liadrin herself.

  19. #79
    Dreadlord Kyux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    They were literally amazon forest warriors. It ain't just player fantasy, that was the entire point of it.
    Yes, they lived in a forest and were warriors with female leaders but they weren't savages as people seem to say they were. I think their representation in Classic in zones like Ashenvale, Darkshore, and Teldrassil is pretty spot on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akhlys View Post
    Once upon a time, boats were full of leaks. Now, our leaks are full of boats.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    Light is really only important to Liadrin. We see plenty of non-priest and non-paladin humans and other races saying things like "by the Light" or "Light help us" or something like that. Liadrin is the only blood elf I know of who ever mentions the Light from BC onward. Other elves say things like "by the Sunwell" but they said that sort of thing long before the Sunwell became a mix of light and arcane magic.

    The pillars of Blood Elven society I'd say are, as they've always been, arcane magic and rangers. Blood Knights seemed like they were the new most important thing in BC, but since then, Blizzard has let them rot, leaving only the remnants of the elves' arcane and Farstrider heritage in people's minds.

    Liadrin likes the Light and forbids her knights from siphoning from the Sunwell like they did from M'uru before. This means that any blood knights we see today using the Light are just good little lawful good boring human paladins like all the rest, drained of anything that made them unique. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a bunch of the knights were like "um, no" and left the order to pursue other avenues of power to serve Quel'thalas. I think it'd be cool for there to be some Blood Knights focusing on blood magic, arcane, or fel to augment their fighting, if they ever did something like class skins in WoW. Lots of Blood Knights leaving the group would explain why it's taken a backseat for so long apart from Liadrin herself.
    high priest vandellor was one of the most important people in quelthala society before the plague invasion. also Anar'alah means by the light in thalassian.

    light is an important part of high elf society, even mehlar was a paladin before the blood knight existed!

    Anar'alah Belore!!

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