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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    blizzard's writing can be bad and I'm among the first to say it's bad writing but being wood elf isn't necessarily bad if someone writes it right! I like the wood elves from warhammer fantasy.

    the blood elves are high elves the interesting thing is to see the high elves on the side of the orcs and killing humans



    Tbh, it's good you like warhammer wood elves, but to want night elves to be that only when they could be that and more, i don't get it, I love that the night elves are more, and glad for you that you like them as wood elves though you don't play them at all, you just like that someone else can be that. Bur for those of us who love them, I like that I can pick up a night elf mage, a night elf druid , a hunter,, a priest and a demon hunter and have a powerful fantasy to connect to.

    Without feeling that oh, only hunter types is my races' vibe - it ruins the integrity of my mage, my demon hunter and my caster priest - and it's un-necessary. this is why I am glad that blizzard hasn this depth in thier lore.

    Now for me to start thinking of the night elves as exclusivley wood elves? it just kills my mage, DH, priest - that's not their fantasy, I picked. It may be enough for you who doens't really care about them, but for me who does, I want more than a niche in some human story. Soz.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  2. #82
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Today on: "Back then everything was better!"
    This just in! Our reporters indicate that they have found evidence of it being uphill both ways back then!
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    light is an important factor in blood elf society long before the end of TBC liadrin was a priestess of light. There are characteristics of the blood elves that are recurrent like the rangers when we went to nazjatar the forces of the blood elves that I see there are ranger. in warfront I see mage night elves and wardens.

    blizzard's writing can be bad and I'm among the first to say it's bad writing but being wood elf isn't necessarily bad if someone writes it right! I like the wood elves from warhammer fantasy.

    the blood elves are high elves the interesting thing is to see the high elves on the side of the orcs and killing humans
    What's wrong with having more to a race than a niche? Just becuase you're happy with the one niche doesn't mean everyone else is. It's worse if they had something better before but just dumbed it down - that's the worse.

    when you like something you want more of it, so if we beocme light junkies, what about those who liked the other aspects? What about htose who liked the Farstrider wood elf niche? or the arcane high elf niche? or the Fel elf niche ? Should they be okay about blood elves just becoming light junkies when they were far more intersting before?


    Yes, i'm whining I know, but I disagree with you on this one, like a niche if you want but I'd rather see elves their own people rather than a sub-niche of humans or forsaken. Sorry. And being hteir own people means they've got a lot more to them than a niche of the forsaken or humans.

  4. #84
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Its really depressing when you realise that even back then blizzard couldn't keep interesting flavor for even one expansion.
    Because the reason for them being introduced was a bit.....err....linear.

    Hence the source in my signature
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Tbh, it's good you like warhammer wood elves, but to want night elves to be that only when they could be that and more, i don't get it, I love that the night elves are more, and glad for you that you like them as wood elves though you don't play them at all, you just like that someone else can be that. Bur for those of us who love them, I like that I can pick up a night elf mage, a night elf druid , a hunter,, a priest and a demon hunter and have a powerful fantasy to connect to.

    Without feeling that oh, only hunter types is my races' vibe - it ruins the integrity of my mage, my demon hunter and my caster priest - and it's un-necessary. this is why I am glad that blizzard hasn this depth in thier lore.

    Now for me to start thinking of the night elves as exclusivley wood elves? it just kills my mage, DH, priest - that's not their fantasy, I picked. It may be enough for you who doens't really care about them, but for me who does, I want more than a niche in some human story. Soz.
    in that same answer I also said that although a race may be something that does not mean that within that society there are more complex things I liked to see wardens and mages on the war front!
    I think blizzard writing sucks because BFA was a bad idea. We started an expa war where all the war elements were quickly eliminated to pass into a poorly made expa of naga and Nzoth.

    it is unclear how in an expa that was sold as an expa from a great war AvH the already planned ideas of warfront barrens are eliminated!

    but I repeat they can make better stories if they hire good writers

  6. #86
    Stormwind humans are by a long shot the most boring race. Humans in general can be very interesting like Arthas, Uther, Jaina, Antonidas, Tirion, even some of the Scarlet Crusade. Yet none of the interesting ones are from Stormwind.

    Elves are just overrepresented in the game but they do have much more interesting lore behind them. Both NE and BE were far better portrayed in WC3 when they were an independant faction. Night elves joining the Alliance was a mistake imo, it would've made far more sense if they were just neutral to both Alliance and Horde.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    What's wrong with having more to a race than a niche? Just becuase you're happy with the one niche doesn't mean everyone else is. It's worse if they had something better before but just dumbed it down - that's the worse.

    when you like something you want more of it, so if we beocme light junkies, what about those who liked the other aspects? What about htose who liked the Farstrider wood elf niche? or the arcane high elf niche? or the Fel elf niche ? Should they be okay about blood elves just becoming light junkies when they were far more intersting before?


    Yes, i'm whining I know, but I disagree with you on this one, like a niche if you want but I'd rather see elves their own people rather than a sub-niche of humans or forsaken. Sorry. And being hteir own people means they've got a lot more to them than a niche of the forsaken or humans.
    the high elves were always believers in the light, a person can believe in something but work on other things. the belief in light does not prevent someone from being a mage or a ranger, in fact it was always a mage and a ranger who believed in light.

  8. #88
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    This is alot of hope for a race that was added in BC just so the horde can have a non ugo race.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    high priest vandellor was one of the most important people in quelthala society before the plague invasion. also Anar'alah means by the light in thalassian.

    light is an important part of high elf society, even mehlar was a paladin before the blood knight existed!

    Anar'alah Belore!!
    "Anar'alah" does mean "by the light" but is always followed with "belore" to mean "by the light of the sun" which puts it in a different context entirely.

    Yes, Vandellor was important BEFORE the Scourge invasion.

    Yes, Mehlar was a paladin BEFORE the Scourge invasion.

    When the Scourge came, the elves as a society largely lost faith in the light, and we have no evidence anyone other than Liadrin and her knights have regained their faith, along with unnamed and unmentioned blood elf priests (as they're playable). At any rate, they're not like humans and other races where people still worship the Light even if they have no connection to it as either priests or paladins. We've seen no elves mentioning the Light as a benevolent entity, the one mentioned by humans and draenei, apart from Liadrin and certain blood knights like that one from the Bloodsworn comic who was torn between his love for his girlfriend and for the Light.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Well they are elves, the most boring race in fantasy across almost all settings.
    Subjective. But the title undoubtedly goes to Humans and Orcs

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    the high elves were always believers in the light, a person can believe in something but work on other things. the belief in light does not prevent someone from being a mage or a ranger, in fact it was always a mage and a ranger who believed in light.
    Blood Elves are not High Elves though
    Night Elves NEED long hair to the ground and more elegant/regal beautiful options to show their Highbourne heritage

  11. #91
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharnie786 View Post
    Blood Elves are not High Elves though
    Yes and No

    Although we all know that Kael'thas and the Blood Elves dumped the name "High Elves", they still tend to the Quel'thalas traditions, heritage, and its culture. They own Quel'thalas, Silvermoon, and the Sunwell and they are willing to defend them - as well as the appointed leaders' ideals, they are the true descendants of the High Elves and they are closer to the High Elves than the ones in the Alliance. To be a High Elf is to wield magic efficiently, as seen in Blood Knights who command the Light - compared to... High Elf Paladins who need faith to wield Light

    The (Alliance) High Elves on the other hand, have abandoned their own kin in their time of need and chose to side with their enemy. They no longer indulge in Blood Elf stuff and they chose now to live in Human, Dwarf, and Night Elf lands, they basically set aside what defined them. They are now more like Wildhammer Elves than High Elves.

    Now, why did they chose to fight for the Alliance? They were exiled? Lor'themar made amends for them to come back and they still refused. They didn't want to kill Alliance? They could have been simply become neutral Kirin Tor or Argent Dawn/Crusade mediators, heck even Vereesa's husband himself is neutral and is vouching for the Horde. They couldn't stand the Horde? They could have simply stayed in Quel'thalas or made themselves cleanse Ghostlands. But nah, to the enemy they went. They sealed off their legitimacy for Quel'thalas the moment they committed the Purge of Dalaran

    Quel'dorei? You are peasants playing at nobility, all too willing to mingle with lesser races that dilute your bloodline. You are unworthy of the name high elves.
    Blood Elves are the real High Elves, and the High Elves today are posers

    (and this is coming from someone who was an Alliance-biased pro-helfer)

    (but although I would really love a unification of Vereesa, Umbric, and Mordent's Highborne in Eldre'thalas and make it their new stronghold with Alleria as their leader)
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Horde's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Tbh, it's good you like warhammer wood elves, but to want night elves to be that only when they could be that and more, i don't get it, I love that the night elves are more, and glad for you that you like them as wood elves though you don't play them at all, you just like that someone else can be that. Bur for those of us who love them, I like that I can pick up a night elf mage, a night elf druid , a hunter,, a priest and a demon hunter and have a powerful fantasy to connect to.

    Without feeling that oh, only hunter types is my races' vibe - it ruins the integrity of my mage, my demon hunter and my caster priest - and it's un-necessary. this is why I am glad that blizzard hasn this depth in thier lore.

    Now for me to start thinking of the night elves as exclusivley wood elves? it just kills my mage, DH, priest - that's not their fantasy, I picked. It may be enough for you who doens't really care about them, but for me who does, I want more than a niche in some human story. Soz.
    Hating the highborne for 10k years only to just let them stroll in and do whatever they want is the opposite of having depth in the lore. It's one of the worse thing Blizzard did along with having their zones destroyed.

  13. #93
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    It sure feels longer than that.
    And they still have no more than 5 minutes of lore
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  14. #94
    [QUOTE=Narwhalosh Whalescream;52674335]
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post

    Doesn't matter when at the end blood elves became just humans with long ears and night elves became trophy wives for humans.
    Wait, a night elf married a human? When did that happen? I thought that was a high elf fad.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    Wait, a night elf married a human? When did that happen? I thought that was a high elf fad.
    no, but Shandris forces herself in Anduin's harem, and then there's Keeshan
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Horde's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    Yes, they lived in a forest and were warriors with female leaders but they weren't savages as people seem to say they were. I think their representation in Classic in zones like Ashenvale, Darkshore, and Teldrassil is pretty spot on.
    Savage in the sense of fierce and violent. They attacked the Horde lumberjacks without so much as a warning. They assaulted the Alliance simply for being affiliated with the Horde, again no words exchanged. When they saw the Alliance and the Sentinels had a common enemy in the undead, they opted to raze an entire Alliance base to get to their destination instead of trying to seek their aid. You can be savage without being primitive.
    Last edited by Aresk; 2020-09-27 at 05:42 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Yes and No

    Although we all know that Kael'thas and the Blood Elves dumped the name "High Elves", they still tend to the Quel'thalas traditions, heritage, and its culture. They own Quel'thalas, Silvermoon, and the Sunwell and they are willing to defend them - as well as the appointed leaders' ideals, they are the true descendants of the High Elves and they are closer to the High Elves than the ones in the Alliance. To be a High Elf is to wield magic efficiently, as seen in Blood Knights who command the Light - compared to... High Elf Paladins who need faith to wield Light
    After the Sunwell raid at the end of BC, Liadrin regained her faith and forbade her knights from siphoning light magic from the Sunwell to fuel their powers, which means the only way they can still be using the Light is by being lawful good boring human paladins.

    The (Alliance) High Elves on the other hand, have abandoned their own kin in their time of need and chose to side with their enemy. They no longer indulge in Blood Elf stuff and they chose now to live in Human, Dwarf, and Night Elf lands, they basically set aside what defined them. They are now more like Wildhammer Elves than High Elves.
    The only high elves who deserve any credit were the elves banished to Quel'lithien Lodge who refused to drain mana from living things to survive, knowing they would have to suffer the pains of their addiction while also dealing with Scourge. They faced the same threats as the Blood Elves, but chose the moral high road (for themselves, at least. One could argue the moral thing would be to drain mana so they could be strong enough to defend their people from the Scourge). All the rest of the high elves like the Silver Covenant were safe in human lands, and even then, Vereesa, the worst Windrunner, said she would've given in if not for the support of her husband and twin half breed spawn.

    Now, why did they chose to fight for the Alliance? They were exiled? Lor'themar made amends for them to come back and they still refused. They didn't want to kill Alliance? They could have been simply become neutral Kirin Tor or Argent Dawn/Crusade mediators, heck even Vereesa's husband himself is neutral and is vouching for the Horde. They couldn't stand the Horde? They could have simply stayed in Quel'thalas or made themselves cleanse Ghostlands. But nah, to the enemy they went. They sealed off their legitimacy for Quel'thalas the moment they committed the Purge of Dalaran
    Elves like the Silver Covenant weren't exiled, just forbidden from coming back if they were going to be a liability instead of a boon. Their hatred for the blood elves is entirely political for their friendship with the Horde.

    Blood Elves are the real High Elves, and the High Elves today are posers
    Blood Elves are the isolationist ones doing what's necessary for Quel'thalas, while the current high elves are those who wrote off Quel'thalas as lost and chose to build a new life among humanity. Blood Elves are the natural progression of the race, while high elves (not including the ones who were in Outland) have sworn off their old ways because they just hate the Horde that much.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    "Anar'alah" does mean "by the light" but is always followed with "belore" to mean "by the light of the sun" which puts it in a different context entirely.

    Yes, Vandellor was important BEFORE the Scourge invasion.

    Yes, Mehlar was a paladin BEFORE the Scourge invasion.

    When the Scourge came, the elves as a society largely lost faith in the light, and we have no evidence anyone other than Liadrin and her knights have regained their faith, along with unnamed and unmentioned blood elf priests (as they're playable). At any rate, they're not like humans and other races where people still worship the Light even if they have no connection to it as either priests or paladins. We've seen no elves mentioning the Light as a benevolent entity, the one mentioned by humans and draenei, apart from Liadrin and certain blood knights like that one from the Bloodsworn comic who was torn between his love for his girlfriend and for the Light.
    the blood elves had faith in the light in a similar way to the tauren who believe in An'she and are also paladins.

    light as a cosmic force can be represented in different ways by the different peoples who believe in it.

    the sun that the blood elves talk so much about is that representation in their society of the worship of the cosmic force light

    - - - Updated - - -

    [QUOTE=Aresk;52677057]
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post

    Wait, a night elf married a human? When did that happen? I thought that was a high elf fad.
    I remember a night elf female who has a human girlfriend

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    Blood Elves are the isolationist ones doing what's necessary for Quel'thalas, while the current high elves are those who wrote off Quel'thalas as lost and chose to build a new life among humanity. Blood Elves are the natural progression of the race, while high elves (not including the ones who were in Outland) have sworn off their old ways because they just hate the Horde that much.
    That's not true in the case of the Ren'dorei. Both Alleria and Umbric lament the mistake the Sin'dorei made, and vow to bring Quel'thalas back into the fold. Vereesa also seeks to "set the blood elves on the path of redemption", and she has become Alleria's subordinate (at least judging from 8.2), which means she also shares their ideals. They still see themselves as Thalassian, and will always feel connected to Quel'thalas, thus they won't stop fighting until they've freed it.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Hating the highborne for 10k years only to just let them stroll in and do whatever they want is the opposite of having depth in the lore. It's one of the worse thing Blizzard did along with having their zones destroyed.
    Except Highborne are night elves too, and so are Illidari. Night elf isn't exclusive to the Darnassian community that banned magic. never has bene.

    Hating without forgiveness or opening up is also not benevolent, which is what the night elf is described as.

    Assigning hate indiscriminately without a chance to redeem oneself is also not intelligent, which is what the night elves are described as.

    When the story defines arcane usage as bad because it could bring the return of the legion, and that happens anyway, the reason for rejecting Highborne/magic goes away. Problem is most people never bothered to look into the night elf story more than the info they got in voice overs. Still, the lore and history is all there, it provides powerful roles for night elven players who want a mage fantasy, a druid fantasy, a demon hunter fantasy, a hunter fantasy and a priest fantasy.

    To ignore all to fix them in one, when the lore actually has them dually arcane and nature actually diminishes them. if you love nature, great for you, so do i, you have that, Highborne, illidari, mages, arcane magic amongst night elves doesn't diminish your fantasy, so don't hunt on people who actually like that other aspect to them, or at least like them being more than a 1 -track pony.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    It's one of the worse thing Blizzard did along with having their zones destroyed
    Said by everyone who never truly understood or took on board all of the night elf lore. I mean what would you expect when the reason for the Long vigil ends in WC3? The initial story is set up to end that age in the very game it's introduced, meanwhile plans made to continue on the race and the devs themselves outlining what they intended it to be. Why does it surprise you there'd be Highborne and Illidari playing roles or the arcane would return?

    How does that destroy the lore, when it was set up from the very beginning?

    Opening description, WC3 manual, tell you they banned magic to prevent the demons returning, what do you think they'd be like when the demons return? Did you see them banning mages fighting the demons in the final battle? Then they spent a 3 volume trilogy going into great depth of what led a mighty arcane race to have a large bunch of survivors that turned to nature - DEMONS.. the Legion that was the reason Nordrassil is grown, arcane practice is banned, . Did every Highborne conspire to bring the demons to Azeroth? you find out the Eldre'thalas (dire Maul ones did not), the Suramar ones did not, the Farondis ones did not, the Menaar ones did not.

    Were the Highborne to blame? Ofc, as a group yes, as every single individual, no. Were the night elves to blame? As a race yes - and you are told signs of self remorse and shame for letting it happen and being carried away with pride.

    Was the arcane the enemy or hubris? Was the real problem the demons or magic?

    It surprises no one who knows the lore to see night elf mages, Highborne, as well as demon hunters and none Darnassian long vigil types - i mean where do you expect the story to go after WC# when the very reason for living in a long vigil era is ended.. ordo you think it is not entirely by design?

    In case you didn't realise it, Wow Was been planned and developed while WC3 was, - so all that part of their story is very intentional, if you want to know what they intended the night elves to be originally? They say so them selves. Read this excerpt here.




    this is discussed in detail here:
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...idn-t-Consider
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

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