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  1. #121
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    Night Elves definitely are, Blood Elves are fun.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Some us feel the high elves decision not to revert to magic to slake their thirst as quite a testmaent to will power and moral strength.. nothing cofortable or easy about what htey had to experience, yet to refuse the easier option out - of taking tainted magic - there is nothing weak or comfy about that, quite the opposite.

    Blood elves chose to embrace power, high elves continued backing morality with wisdom and inner strength.
    Blood Elves are the most moral faction in the game, since they decided to torture a Naaru, an act that can promote you from Maw straight to Revendreth.

  3. #123
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    Yup, a shame, but they had every right to choose their fate. They earned it by being the only high elves willing to suffer for their choices, while for Vereesa, the choice was sit comfortably in Rhonin's castle being waited on by servants while she recovered from her addiction with yoga and massages, or go to Quel'thalas and drain mana from animals and fight off an army of zombies.

    I also like them, especially because of Auric Sunchaser, their leader. He's the highest-ranking member of the high elves left (Vereesa was a grunt-rank ranger who gave herself the title of Ranger-General in pursuit of working against Quel'thalas, a bit disrespectful) besides maybe Alleria, but she's walked away from Quel'thalas to be Anduin's errand girl, literally.

    Auric is the only high elf who put his duty before petty political distaste for the Horde by taking it on himself to be an advocate for high elves at the Sunwell and no doubt ensure they were treated well. While Vereesa and Alleria play politics and pretend to be angels by lecturing the blood elves about being in the Horde, Auric did what Farstriders were supposed to do: Protect their people, and he saw a group of their people who needed protection and representation.
    That too, the Alliance High Elves were just that privileged to have readymade mana crystals in Dalaran to feed on and they didn't even bother help cleanse the Ghostlands nor help the Blood Elves restore Quel'thalas. Heck even in 2.4 the Alliance High Elves were nowhere to be found in the Sunwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    morality?? Are you talking about the psychopaths who fed sharks to the blood elves prisoners? they are trash
    + sending the Alliance to backstab Sunreavers in WotLK, and helping the Alliance win Stromgarde which pretty much put Quel'thalas in a more vulnerable spot against the Alliance should they invade soon
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Horde's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Some us feel the high elves decision not to revert to magic to slake their thirst as quite a testmaent to will power and moral strength.. nothing cofortable or easy about what htey had to experience, yet to refuse the easier option out - of taking tainted magic - there is nothing weak or comfy about that, quite the opposite.

    Blood elves chose to embrace power, high elves continued backing morality with wisdom and inner strength.
    The only elves to use fel were the Sunfury and a select few in Quel'thalas. The overwhelming majority used mana tap to suck arcane from things like mana worms.

    Blood elves chose to embrace survival by giving themselves the energy to keep fighting. At the time, the addiction was thought to be fatal, as the old, young, and sick died. Blood of the Highborne showed us that they'd shiver on the floor in extreme cases. To go without mana was to be useless in the fight against the Scourge, the huge army of zombies dogging their steps daily. They didn't have time to meditate like Vereesa, safe behind human walls.

    The only high elves who deserve any credit for their choice were the elves at Quel'lithien who were faced with the same danger the blood elves faced, and still chose their path. Vereesa deserves nothing of the sort, since she said that she almost gave in, despite her only motivator being her own hunger, as opposed to the survival of herself and her comrades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    "the eternal sun guide us"

    I think the evidence is more in favor of my position.
    Yet there's no priesthood of An'she in Quel'thalas and there never has been. The fact their WoWPedia explicitly mentions the veneration of the metaphorical sun tells me it's more to do with their embracing the day instead of the night, not worshipping the sun as a deity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Yes, and she chose them because the rest of her family was there, making it the natural choice. I find it both presumptuous and hilarious that you think she made the bad or morally wrong choice.

    I cited the mind-control event from TBC because you keep acting like the Horde-aligned government are saints while Alleria is so evil and despicable for choosing the Alliance. How dare a woman, who has not seen her son in 1.000 years, dare put her family over her political affiliations!
    I'm not saying she's morally bad for choosing Alliance. I just think it's laughable she thinks the blood elves are morally bad for not laying down and dying when the Alliance pissed all over them in WC3 then again in BC. If Blizzard weren't writing like crap, they'd have told us if Alleria knows about this or not. I choose to believe she doesn't know, because that would explain her blatant disregard for her people as an afterthought fit only to serve Anduin as a vassal state of Stormwind.

    If she's gonna choose Alliance, then choose Alliance, but she shouldn't ignore what's happened in the last 25 or so years on Azeroth just because the elves wore blue for two seconds in WC2 before immediately leaving the Alliance when they were expected to pay for the orcs' going on living rather than killing them all.

    Lor'themar and co. aren't saints, but they are putting their duty to Quel'thalas before anything else, like historical partnerships with humans. They'll work with whoever helps them most in the moment. If the Horde as a whole (meaning not just the leader with whatever retconned "tiny" amount of support they had) betrayed them, then they should leave and join whoever isn't going to piss on them. They joined the Horde because the Alliance sent spies and sabotage while Sylvanas sent help. Survival and reality over history and idealism based on Tolkien tropes.

    One example of an actually good High Elf who, like Lor'themar, is putting his duty as a Farstrider to the vulnerable of Quel'thalas, is Auric Sunchaser who represents the high elf pilgrims to the Sunwell and no doubt is there to advocate for them and ensure they're treated fairly. He's the responsible son, while Alleria and Vereesa are the irresponsible younger sisters who jumped on the back of a motorcycle and eloped with their high school boyfriend.

    If I recall correctly, Vereesa didn't tell Alleria that it was her own idea to murder Garrosh, so it doesn't seem hard to believe Alleria hasn't heard the full story of the Purge of Dalaran either. If Vereesa had a problem revealing a plot to kill someone like Garrosh, I can't see her admitting to murdering Sunreavers, without stretching the truth and telling Alleria they were all in on the plot to steal the Divine Bell and were preparing to take over Dalaran or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    That too, the Alliance High Elves were just that privileged to have readymade mana crystals in Dalaran to feed on and they didn't even bother help cleanse the Ghostlands nor help the Blood Elves restore Quel'thalas. Heck even in 2.4 the Alliance High Elves were nowhere to be found in the Sunwell
    It's a testament to Lor'themar's recognition of his duty to protect Quel'thalas and its people regardless of Horde/Alliance affiliation that he allowed the high elves access to the Sunwell, where the Silver Covenant would have slit the blood elves' throats if the roles were reversed, and Alleria would've invited Anduin to take a bath in the Sunwell to super charge him with Light powers.

    If Lor'themar's government were as evil as some believe, he'd have had all the high elf pilgrims mind-controlled into joining the Blood Elves and tainting their eyes with green on purpose to fit in, but he didn't, because the blood elves aren't as black and white as Vereesa wants to believe they are.
    Last edited by Koryn123; 2020-09-27 at 09:30 PM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Except Highborne are night elves too, and so are Illidari. Night elf isn't exclusive to the Darnassian community that banned magic. never has bene.

    Hating without forgiveness or opening up is also not benevolent, which is what the night elf is described as.

    Assigning hate indiscriminately without a chance to redeem oneself is also not intelligent, which is what the night elves are described as.

    When the story defines arcane usage as bad because it could bring the return of the legion, and that happens anyway, the reason for rejecting Highborne/magic goes away. Problem is most people never bothered to look into the night elf story more than the info they got in voice overs. Still, the lore and history is all there, it provides powerful roles for night elven players who want a mage fantasy, a druid fantasy, a demon hunter fantasy, a hunter fantasy and a priest fantasy.

    To ignore all to fix them in one, when the lore actually has them dually arcane and nature actually diminishes them. if you love nature, great for you, so do i, you have that, Highborne, illidari, mages, arcane magic amongst night elves doesn't diminish your fantasy, so don't hunt on people who actually like that other aspect to them, or at least like them being more than a 1 -track pony.



    Said by everyone who never truly understood or took on board all of the night elf lore. I mean what would you expect when the reason for the Long vigil ends in WC3? The initial story is set up to end that age in the very game it's introduced, meanwhile plans made to continue on the race and the devs themselves outlining what they intended it to be. Why does it surprise you there'd be Highborne and Illidari playing roles or the arcane would return?

    How does that destroy the lore, when it was set up from the very beginning?

    Opening description, WC3 manual, tell you they banned magic to prevent the demons returning, what do you think they'd be like when the demons return? Did you see them banning mages fighting the demons in the final battle? Then they spent a 3 volume trilogy going into great depth of what led a mighty arcane race to have a large bunch of survivors that turned to nature - DEMONS.. the Legion that was the reason Nordrassil is grown, arcane practice is banned, . Did every Highborne conspire to bring the demons to Azeroth? you find out the Eldre'thalas (dire Maul ones did not), the Suramar ones did not, the Farondis ones did not, the Menaar ones did not.

    Were the Highborne to blame? Ofc, as a group yes, as every single individual, no. Were the night elves to blame? As a race yes - and you are told signs of self remorse and shame for letting it happen and being carried away with pride.

    Was the arcane the enemy or hubris? Was the real problem the demons or magic?

    It surprises no one who knows the lore to see night elf mages, Highborne, as well as demon hunters and none Darnassian long vigil types - i mean where do you expect the story to go after WC# when the very reason for living in a long vigil era is ended.. ordo you think it is not entirely by design?

    In case you didn't realise it, Wow Was been planned and developed while WC3 was, - so all that part of their story is very intentional, if you want to know what they intended the night elves to be originally? They say so them selves. Read this excerpt here.




    this is discussed in detail here:
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...idn-t-Consider
    Illidari is different though, they don't start up in Teldrassil, they aren't really considered as part of the Darnassian Night Elves. Yet when you make a night elf mage you make a highborne which isn't Darnassian. And then in Legion, you see the Night Elves being hostile to the Nightborne, which is one of the reason they join the Horde instead. Doesn't make sense.

    I'm not hunting other players who wanna play what they want. I'm just expressing my dislike for the way the story went. I've been playing since WC3, Night Elves are my favourite race. And I don't think allowing the Highborne back simply because blizzard wanted more "race/class combos" was a good idea. It doesn't even matter anyway, they are barely mentioned if at all.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post

    Wait, a night elf married a human? When did that happen? I thought that was a high elf fad.
    I think he was talking about Shandris.

    What annoyed me most was when they just substituted high elves for night elves to be the human buddies, support crew and part of the human package.. that is not what night elves were ever meant to be, that was the role of the high elves.

    And I really am happy for high elves to come back, they can play that role, while night elves can go back to being unique, and void elves can be something new about Thalassian elves - heavy win if they focus on the alliance properly.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Illidari is different though, they don't start up in Teldrassil, they aren't really considered as part of the Darnassian Night Elves. Yet when you make a night elf mage you make a highborne which isn't Darnassian. And then in Legion, you see the Night Elves being hostile to the Nightborne, which is one of the reason they join the Horde instead. Doesn't make sense.

    I'm not hunting other players who wanna play what they want. I'm just expressing my dislike for the way the story went. I've been playing since WC3, Night Elves are my favourite race. And I don't think allowing the Highborne back simply because blizzard wanted more "race/class combos" was a good idea. It doesn't even matter anyway, they are barely mentioned if at all.
    Night elf mage players can also be considered students of the Shen'drelar, as we see student NPCs in-game in Azshara using antiquated arcane constructs that are easily taken over by either more advanced modern magics, or just more advanced blood elf magic. It's possible that either the students there were inexperienced compared to the blood elf mage, or the magic they were taught to use by the Shen'drelar was just outdated and easy to tamper with, which wouldn't reflect well on the Shen'drelar, who might have been behind the times cooped up in Eldre'thalas.

    Judging by how Nightborne society flourished inside their dome, it's possible that the Shen'drelar's magic did as well and the students were just not that great at magic yet. It's also possible that the Shen'drelar weren't able to grow their magical knowledge/skill all that much with most of their effort going toward keeping Immol'thar imprisoned and consuming fel magic from him (btw shen'drelar draining fel from demon is A-OK but belves draining arcane from mana worms is bad lol ok Tyrande).
    Last edited by Koryn123; 2020-09-27 at 11:35 PM.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Illidari is different though, they don't start up in Teldrassil, they aren't really considered as part of the Darnassian Night Elves. Yet when you make a night elf mage you make a highborne which isn't Darnassian. And then in Legion, you see the Night Elves being hostile to the Nightborne, which is one of the reason they join the Horde instead. Doesn't make sense.
    Actually, the Highborne you make is a Darnassian, now from shadowlands if you want him to be a Shen'dralar you can be, because the provision is there. But from cataclysm to BFA, you are one of the Darnassian mages trained by the Shen'dralar and joining the Highborne caste/order.

    now you have a choice of being a 10k year old former Highborne who stayed with the Long vigil group, and gave up the arcane, now returning to it when the ban was lifted and the call was made, you were greatly out of practice as your comrades in Azshara zone showed, but you were picking up the basics in record time - and enough to be put on the warfront back in Cataclysm.


    Alternatively you could be a new night elf, born to the Darnassian group within the last 10k years under the long vigil, having known no other life but the stories told. You will be exceptionally talented at the arcane, like the night elf race has always had exceptional members, but you, like many of us of your talent had no way of making use of it under the ban, you may not have even realised you were arcane talented, you likely didn't quite fit in any of the other pursuits, and were probably a bit bored. You may have tried very hard, but just not seemed to have excelled at it like some of your compatriots.

    You realised what you had was an arcane gift, and when the Shen'dralar strolled into town, you were mesmerised, and when they tested you , and invited you to join them, you were amazed, it finally felt like you were beginning to understand your true calling.


    This is precisely because you are a Darnassian, not a Shen'dralar.

    2. In legion, Darnassians were NOT hostile to Nightborne, Tyrande was unfriendly, and as she leads the Darnassians, that would influence the Nightborne friendship - it is written this way so Nightborne can go horde, a board room decision blizzard said they had a long debate over and the horde won the debate - not surprising since all the senior devs play horde and they've had a developmental horde bias for a while - not saying they hate alliance, but they've been pushing horde for so long, the first instinct is to give the better things to the horde - so where Nightborne under other circumstances would have been a shoe in for alliance, just as Highmountain was for horde, and Lightforged for alliance, they played bait and switch again.

    Anyway, in game sie, bear in mind there is a difference between the race of night elves and the Darnassian faction. As a race, we see many night elves helping the Nightborne in 7.0 (though they just all of a sudden disappear in 7.1 so the blood elves can be the friends instead - indicating a change of direction). However those night elves were not part of the Darnassian alliance faction, but neutral island night elves from Suramar who were left out of the city, or returned to those lands (what's left of it after the Sundering. They didn't travel to Hyjal and be a part of Malfurion/Tyrande's group.

    So you can't say it makes son sense.

    Also Tyrande is annoyed with the Nightborne, by what she says, letting in the Legion, and being chronically addicted to the point of withering is the source of her annoyance. Tyrande and most Darnassians are originally from Suramar, but left to fight the Queen and started a new life atop Hyjal without magic to guard the Well of Eternity and prevent the legion returning, they didn't stay in a life of luxury but put it all aside to man up and be responsible for what their race's hubris caused, meanwhile that lot stayed in the comforts and reckless abandon of the past, choosing to cower within a shield instead of embrace and fight for the world they believed was over run with demons. Though they fought the demons the first time round, they opened the door for them and gave them access to power nearly as great as the well of eternity,, power Tyrande realises Gul'dan was going to use to finish off Azeroth by bringing his masters to the world...

    And these were her people - the shame and the embarrassment - now, Thalyssra and the Nightfallen ofc are the exception, but Tyrande's annoyance lingers for a little while longer, Liadrin on the other hand being part of a people who also suffered from addiction like the night elves did, but also erred in judgement by giving in to the legion, but redeemed themselves, takes compassion on the Nightborne and isn't as judgmental - but then, these aren't her people, and she isn't 0k years old or aware of the history. but you don't need to be to be compassionate.

    This is the angle blizzard uses to make the Nightborne more easily choose the blood elves instead of the night elves.. but the main thing is Liadrin approaches Thalyssra, and Tyrande does not for friendship.

    The background provides the context on why Tyrande isn't jumping up to rush to enlist the Nightborne on the broken isles, in the alliance embassy she is deep in thought when Anduin gives his speech about finding new allies and Alleria and Turalyon suggest the high elves and Lightforged. you can't entirely blame her, if you did the quests, she has had some startling discoveries about Illidan, the legion, the whole struggle for the last 10 k years, was not for their magic but for the world soul, Illidan falsely imprisoned, never a traitor, arcane addiction curable, - steps the night elves took that weren't necessary that had increased much sorrow, Suramar returned, not destroyed, the state of her kin, but also them finding their elven heart, her husband nearly dying, to the Emerald madness, not being able to save him because of her duty, and Ysera dying anyway.... - it's lot, her city saved, wrong about Thalyssra, .. the list goes on, no wonder she is dep in thought.

    This is the in-game reason of why this happens, and it is not the organic flow of thing, it is the story written to execute the board's decision for the Nightborne to go horde, a different story would have been told if they went alliance.

    It makes sense. Tyrande does not hate arcane magic, or her Highborne casts, the Nightborne is a unique situation, and she isn't hostile to them, they don't go horde out of hostility or hatred, they go horde because the blood elves who also helped them asked them and were very nice to the, respecting them and treating them like high class elves they were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    The only elves to use fel were the Sunfury and a select few in Quel'thalas. The overwhelming majority used mana tap to suck arcane from things like mana worms.
    You are missing the main story, the high elve are disgusted at any use of fel magic, the blood elves used fel crystals to siphon power to sate their pangs and fix things.. not all directly used fel like the Sunfury and those closest to Illidan. But to the original high elf mentality, this is anathema.

    if you read the lore, although the high elves were expelled for using arcane magic, they hated the legion and didn't want it back just as passionately as their kin, the difference is theyd idn't feel arcane magic needed to be sacrificed if a way could be found to prevent the legion detecting it's use.. And they did device a way. They gave themselves to disciplined study of magic, control and hating all things demonic, so were not onboard with what those in Silvermoon did.

    On the blood elves defense, the high elves who remained high elves weren't actually there when these things happen, they didn't see how really bad things were or see their kin so mercilessly slaughtered, well at last a lot of them didn't, some would have. Maybe if they had they would have given in. Still it takes strength not to take that option to say no, and go without magic till your addiction passes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    Blood elves chose to embrace survival by giving themselves the energy to keep fighting. At the time, the addiction was thought to be fatal, as the old, young, and sick died. Blood of the Highborne showed us that they'd shiver on the floor in extreme cases. To go without mana was to be useless in the fight against the Scourge, the huge army of zombies dogging their steps daily. They didn't have time to meditate like Vereesa, safe behind human walls.

    The only high elves who deserve any credit for their choice were the elves at Quel'lithien who were faced with the same danger the blood elves faced, and still chose their path. Vereesa deserves nothing of the sort, since she said that she almost gave in, despite her only motivator being her own hunger, as opposed to the survival of herself and her comrades.
    I'm not trying to convince you I'm right, I hope you can appreciate there is another point of view and others see heroism in areas you don't. I don't think blizzard wrote the high elves to be trashy or rubbish at all, they wrote them to remain honourable, noble, like the alliance and it's values, so maybe you can try to look from that perspective.

    Now while the blood elves might not view it that way, which is by design, the converse also has tome truths. The blood elves are written now to have embraced a new path, they are using darker magics an d other things previously considered too dangerous or totally taboo.. it's no longer pre- Legion, the legion's return has changed all the old boundaries - this is why the night elves later lift heir ban on arcane, blood elves seek to harness fel and other magics as high elves they never would have risked. To the blood elves, the worse has already happened - no point in being so picky or fussy, to the high elves, principals still matter and it's not being fussy, this is dangerous corurptive stuff that destroys everything, and which everything about Quelt'halas was founded to oppose.

    The blood elves on the other hand are written from the perspective of horde values here, the faction they are now designed to join in TBC necessitating several major shifts from their former alliance selves. A people under a desperate struggle to survive (like the other horde races), deck stacked against them and an offer is made that could help considerably (Illidan's fel source) it's got a catch, but they must embrace something dangerous and change their views because they feel survival is at stake. The horde races are not together based on shared ideals, but shared situation - SURVIVAL.

    Now the argument ofc is whether survival truly was at stake, the high elves did not believe using fel crystals or any such thing was necessary for survival, but they may have been thinking of personal survival and combing together under that premise, the blood elves may have been thinking of survival of both their lives and their culture/race and it's magical legacy.. - they would view the high elves as cowardly and stupidly or naively stubborn to stick to morality that mans nothing - tenets of the light that abandoned, humans that betrayed them, but bottom line Quel'thalas gone - what use is morals?

    Now you can appreciate not everyone agrees with that point of view, some do, for some people, manners maketh man , your beliefs and your principals are the truest and most core part of you, not your flesh's ability to survive (if you don't understand this, you would never understand why men would die for what they believe and not do whatever it takes to "survive"), .. however such resolve is always tested in times of great peril, only those who truly believe that adhere to it, and there is the difference between high and blood.

    As an alliance, having such principles you are likely to side with the group that retains them, as a horde where survival and revenge under strenuous circumstance sis the norm, such pursuits seem luxuries.

    It's not to say they are or they are not, which you take may depend on your point of view, and your individual disposition, but this is the double sided argument the present.

    It's sad you can't see the nobility in the high elves, I see it clearly, and I can appreciate while disagreeing with the paths the blood elves take for my own personal reasons and my own life journey having had to survive very difficult circumstances but not compromising or changing my beliefs and core to do so. Yet i can't judge those who felt they needed to , even if they did the wrong thing, they were in a a very difficult situation, but I admire those who stuck it through regardless more than those who compromised no matter how good a reason it was.

    Hence i favour the high elves over the blood elves.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  9. #129
    Legendary! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Its really depressing when you realise that even back then blizzard couldn't keep interesting flavor for even one expansion.
    Indeed. BEs were "redeemed" (read: flanderised) at the end of BC in order to not make Draenei look completely useless. BEs have felt like an Alliance race with the wrong tabard ever since, which is a real shame.

    As for NEs, they were collateral damage of writers' decision to villain bat the Horde. Since a proper villain must pose a serious threat, someone had to become the Horde's punching bag - and who better for the position than NEs, because God forbid anything bad can happen to muh human potential. It was stupid back then, but the BfA reenactment was overkill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    snip
    I do find the Quel'lithien elves to be noble because they actually suffered for their choice. The other high elves were living it up, safe with Alliance friends, so I don't find them to be noble at all, especially considering the manic bloodlust they feel for their kin.

    I also find Captain Auric Sunchaser the noblest of all because he puts others before himself. One could argue that Captain Renthar Hawkspear should've put his duty as a Farstrider to protect Quel'thalas and its people before his morality, and gone along with the arcane siphoning in order to fulfill that duty. Vereesa and the Silver Covenant spend their time whining and raging against the blood elves, while Auric actually steps up and helps people. The Silver Covenant made themselves into rabid attack dogs for humans, while Auric is ensuring representation and fair treatment for high elf pilgrims to Quel'thalas.

    I do find high elves noble when they keep their souls. Renthar Hawkspear kept his personal, non-Farstrider, non-defender-of-the-people values and we know for certain that he kept his values because they were tested by the danger posed by the Scourge. We know Auric kept his values because he continues serving in his capacity as a Farstrider despite not being a Horde member or a blood elf.

    If I say my religious beliefs, and someone says they'll punch me in the face if I don't renounce them utterly, and I do renounce them, then I must not have believed them very seriously. That's how I can tell Hawkspear is more noble, because he knew it would mean pain (from a zombie army he'd be debilitated against, not just personal addiction pain), and he chose the personal high road anyway.

    With the Silver Covenant brand of high elves, first off, they're bloodthirsty murderers who jump at the opportunity to hurt blood elves. Second, I can't be sure that they stayed in Dalaran for the right reasons. It's likely they ignored Kael'thas' order for all elves to return to Quel'thalas after the Scourge invasion. It's strange that they remained in Dalaran, where they should have full knowledge of how the Council of Six ignored Kael's plight and left him and his fellows to die, and still to this day don't mind them in the slightest or have the least bit of sympathy for the blood elves.

    The elves at Quel'danil Lodge I'm not sure about just because of a lack of information, but I assume they didn't hear about Quel'thalas until Arthas had already sacked it, and perhaps didn't know anyone survived. They'd lived in the Hinterlands and been friendly with the Wildhammers forever, so they just went on living as they had, and being mostly rangers, their addiction pains weren't as severe, and they had the Wildhammers to lean on.

    I give them a pass on not knowing about Quel'thalas, and not Vereesa or the SC because with them being in Dalaran, and Vereesa's husband being on the Council of Six, and Vereesa standing next to Modera who was on the Council when Kael was slated for execution, I can't imagine Vereesa not knowing.


    So yes, I do find some high elves to be admirable and noble. Just not Vereesa, the Silver Covenant, or Alleria if she has all the unbiased facts and still chose to abandon Quel'thalas in favor of serving a boy king, son of a guy who was a kid when Alleria left Azeroth, who was heir to a defunct and destroyed kingdom, which wasn't rebuilt until like 10 years after she was stuck in Outland.

    - - - Updated - - -

    At best, the Silver Covenant high elves are untested for me. We have no way of knowing how many of them would have stuck to their principles when faced with the choice between shivering on the ground while an army of undead chases after them every day, or killing an animal to nourish their strength like they would to eat a deer for dinner so they have the power to stand and defend themselves.

    If they all would have, then more power to them, but I doubt Vereesa would've done so, since living comfy in Dalaran with the support of her family almost wasn't enough for her by her own admission.

    After that, it's just the Silver Covenant's insane desire to murder blood elves that gets in the way of their nobility for me.
    Last edited by Koryn123; 2020-09-28 at 01:46 AM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    I'm not saying she's morally bad for choosing Alliance. I just think it's laughable she thinks the blood elves are morally bad for not laying down and dying when the Alliance pissed all over them in WC3 then again in BC. If Blizzard weren't writing like crap, they'd have told us if Alleria knows about this or not. I choose to believe she doesn't know, because that would explain her blatant disregard for her people as an afterthought fit only to serve Anduin as a vassal state of Stormwind.

    If she's gonna choose Alliance, then choose Alliance, but she shouldn't ignore what's happened in the last 25 or so years on Azeroth just because the elves wore blue for two seconds in WC2 before immediately leaving the Alliance when they were expected to pay for the orcs' going on living rather than killing them all.

    Lor'themar and co. aren't saints, but they are putting their duty to Quel'thalas before anything else, like historical partnerships with humans. They'll work with whoever helps them most in the moment. If the Horde as a whole (meaning not just the leader with whatever retconned "tiny" amount of support they had) betrayed them, then they should leave and join whoever isn't going to piss on them. They joined the Horde because the Alliance sent spies and sabotage while Sylvanas sent help. Survival and reality over history and idealism based on Tolkien tropes.

    One example of an actually good High Elf who, like Lor'themar, is putting his duty as a Farstrider to the vulnerable of Quel'thalas, is Auric Sunchaser who represents the high elf pilgrims to the Sunwell and no doubt is there to advocate for them and ensure they're treated fairly. He's the responsible son, while Alleria and Vereesa are the irresponsible younger sisters who jumped on the back of a motorcycle and eloped with their high school boyfriend.

    If I recall correctly, Vereesa didn't tell Alleria that it was her own idea to murder Garrosh, so it doesn't seem hard to believe Alleria hasn't heard the full story of the Purge of Dalaran either. If Vereesa had a problem revealing a plot to kill someone like Garrosh, I can't see her admitting to murdering Sunreavers, without stretching the truth and telling Alleria they were all in on the plot to steal the Divine Bell and were preparing to take over Dalaran or something.
    The Sin'dorei are still in the Horde merely for gameplay reasons. The Forsaken helped the Sin'dorei defeat the Scourge, that happened almost 10 years ago, and since then the Draenei greatly helped the Sin'dorei in defeating Kil'jaeden and Kael'thas and cleansing the Sunwell. What I'm saying is a fact, it's not a surprise that Theron tried to rejoin the Alliance in MoP. The Purge of Dalaran happened for purely gameplay reasons. Blizzard can't force Belf players to transfer to Alliance because they've made friends in the Horde guilds and communities. It's not a surprise that Alleria rejects the Horde, any sane Thalassian would. Again in BfA the Horde's stupid oath dragged the Sin'dorei into another bloody world war, and Theron was once again forced to cooperate with the Alliance against his own overlord the Warchief.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  12. #132
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    If Lor'themar's government were as evil as some believe, he'd have had all the high elf pilgrims mind-controlled into joining the Blood Elves and tainting their eyes with green on purpose to fit in, but he didn't, because the blood elves aren't as black and white as Vereesa wants to believe they are.
    to be fair it would have been more practical if Rommath also sent Kath'mar and Priest Police on the Purge of Dalaran

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...the-High-Elves
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Horde's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The Sin'dorei are still in the Horde merely for gameplay reasons. The Forsaken helped the Sin'dorei defeat the Scourge, that happened almost 10 years ago, and since then the Draenei greatly helped the Sin'dorei in defeating Kil'jaeden and Kael'thas and cleansing the Sunwell. What I'm saying is a fact, it's not a surprise that Theron tried to rejoin the Alliance in MoP. The Purge of Dalaran happened for purely gameplay reasons. Blizzard can't force Belf players to transfer to Alliance because they've made friends in the Horde guilds and communities. It's not a surprise that Alleria rejects the Horde, any sane Thalassian would. Again in BfA the Horde's stupid oath dragged the Sin'dorei into another bloody world war, and Theron was once again forced to cooperate with the Alliance against his own overlord the Warchief.
    I agree that they shouldn't be Horde anymore. They joined to get to Outland and to get help in the Ghostlands. Outland is no longer needed, and I've never seen a single orc fighting the Scourge in the Ghostlands. Their membership in the Horde is only a detriment and has been ever since BC. The Blood Elves are only being used as attack dogs for orcs, just like the high elves for humans, and they should become neutral, with players explained as independent adventurers working for the Horde out of loyalty or for monetary gain as mercenaries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    to be fair it would have been more practical if Rommath also sent Kath'mar and Priest Police on the Purge of Dalaran

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...the-High-Elves
    Yup, but I guess the elves don't employ tactics like those anymore.

  14. #134
    Legendary! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    And they still have no more than 5 minutes of lore
    Thankfully. We've had enough emo BS with Sylvanas and Jaina this xpac, not to mention Illidan in Legion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  15. #135
    Agreed on the blood elves, no idea what you're talking about with the night elves. Tyrande chilled my blood in Shadows Rising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  16. #136
    Oh look, an opinion.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    if being better is being a treacherous rat that endangers the sunwell and kisses the feet of humans for sure
    You better be careful - all it takes to wipe most blood elfs out from the face of Azeroth is one void elf dipping his/her toes in the Sunwell. So you might want to rethink your stance on them... They teleport through the void after all and that stuff hard to counter. One small dip and whoosh - elfs are dried up husks again or actually all turn into void-elfs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    to be fair it would have been more practical if Rommath also sent Kath'mar and Priest Police on the Purge of Dalaran

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...the-High-Elves
    Nah, Lor’Themar is a bit of a coward so reason why he is so “mellow” is because he is afraid that someone more powerful then him will notice his naughty behaviour and come down at him like a sledgehammer.

  18. #138
    Legendary! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Oh look, an opinion.
    What else did you expect to find in an online forum? If all you want are news, the main page is just a click away
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    You better be careful - all it takes to wipe most blood elfs out from the face of Azeroth is one void elf dipping his/her toes in the Sunwell. So you might want to rethink your stance on them... They teleport through the void after all and that stuff hard to counter. One small dip and whoosh - elfs are dried up husks again or actually all turn into void-elfs.
    There can be other scenario when blood elves could regret this attitude... Sunwell getting endangered by a Void from some other source. I can actually imagine forces allied with the Void may want to use Sunwell as means to bring Void on the Azeroth. In this case, blood elves completely lack any knowledge of the Void and most likely will have to ask void elves to help them out.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    There can be other scenario when blood elves could regret this attitude... Sunwell getting endangered by a Void from some other source. I can actually imagine forces allied with the Void may want to use Sunwell as means to bring Void on the Azeroth. In this case, blood elves completely lack any knowledge of the Void and most likely will have to ask void elves to help them out.
    Not quite.

    The Sunfury returners were actively practicing the Void in Outland, so to say that the Elves have no idea about the Void is false. They do hold knowledge on it and they know that the Void and the void elves by extension, are a danger to the Sunwell's existence.

    The Shen'dralar Highborne also hold knowledge on the Void.

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