Blood elves and night elves are so boring

[Garretdejiko]

Well they are elves, the most boring race in fantasy across almost all settings.

You misspelled humans

[Vasaru]

Both races weren't boring in their original incarnations at all. Blizzard just fucked them up big time, with the Night Elves looking a bit better at last in BfA, which won't hold. And the Blood Elves are just High Elves with the wrong colours and on the wrong faction at this point.

I agree 100%

[Shedaar]

Which is why void elves are objectively the best, I've been saying this for 3 years.

yyyyyyyyy yeah? especialy alleria who is one of the most cliche, boring and stoopid looking character?
no thank you

[ravenmoon]

You misspelled humans

AH, you beat me to it Love how you phrased it though.

[Arrashi]

You misspelled humans

Nah, humans at least have potential and ability to make good characters. Elves are just always the same shit (mostly just generic love interest for human protagonist).

[Koryn123]

the blood elves had faith in the light in a similar way to the tauren who believe in An'she and are also paladins.

Lorewise, Sunwalkers and Seers are balance druids using more the Sun side of things to counteract all the Elune influence from Night Elf society trickling in via the tauren druids' connection through the Cenarion Circle. It's not "The Light" as we know it, which is also supported by Aponi Brightmane's interest in learning more about "The Light" in the paladin order hall.

light as a cosmic force can be represented in different ways by the different peoples who believe in it.

But the Sun wasn't one of those in the elves' case. For the Thalassian elves, they got their light from "The Light" as in the same entity/force the humans worshipped.

the sun that the blood elves talk so much about is that representation in their society of the worship of the cosmic force light

If that were the case, their notable light-users would attribute their Light to the Sun, but they attribute it to the traditional Light.

The non-canon but so far not-contradicted (in this subject) RPG book said:

"While this philosophy does not penetrate deeply into high elven society, those who do follow the path of the Holy Light are much more approachable than most."

That means it's already not widespread among the high elves. It also says:

"Most of the elves became disillusioned with the Light following the Third War, holding it in contempt for failing their homeland in its hour of greatest need."

I'd take that to mean that it was already relatively rare among high elves, and now is even more so among blood elves.

The Blood Elves' WoWPedia page says:

The blood elves venerate the metaphorical idea of the "sun" in their culture.

That's far-removed from the Night Elves' worship of Elune as a very real deity with influence over their lives.

[Ardenaso]

-snip-

The Farstrider proper calls Vereesa and the Silver Covenant as exiles as well

Blood Elves are the isolationist ones doing what's necessary for Quel'thalas, while the current high elves are those who wrote off Quel'thalas as lost and chose to build a new life among humanity. Blood Elves are the natural progression of the race, while high elves (not including the ones who were in Outland) have sworn off their old ways because they just hate the Horde that much.

me thinks the Blood Elves being scattered around and being present in almost all Horde operation and outpost gives the impression that they learned their harsh lesson against Anasterian's isolationist policies and they went off to be somewhat... "adventurous" and intermingled with the Horde nowadays

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Nah, humans at least have potential and ability to make good characters. Elves are just always the same shit (mostly just generic love interest for human protagonist).

I got the impression that Elves were supposed to be the Better-mans of Warcraft, but nah Blizzard screwed up and made them the Side-mans for Humans and Orcs from Alliance High Elves to Night Elves to Nightborne to even Lor'themar himself. At least Void Elves seems independently capable and there's still Rommath

[Rhlor]

After the Sunwell raid at the end of BC, Liadrin regained her faith and forbade her knights from siphoning light magic from the Sunwell to fuel their powers, which means the only way they can still be using the Light is by being lawful good boring human paladins.



The only high elves who deserve any credit were the elves banished to Quel'lithien Lodge who refused to drain mana from living things to survive, knowing they would have to suffer the pains of their addiction while also dealing with Scourge. They faced the same threats as the Blood Elves, but chose the moral high road (for themselves, at least. One could argue the moral thing would be to drain mana so they could be strong enough to defend their people from the Scourge). All the rest of the high elves like the Silver Covenant were safe in human lands, and even then, Vereesa, the worst Windrunner, said she would've given in if not for the support of her husband and twin half breed spawn.



Elves like the Silver Covenant weren't exiled, just forbidden from coming back if they were going to be a liability instead of a boon. Their hatred for the blood elves is entirely political for their friendship with the Horde.



Blood Elves are the isolationist ones doing what's necessary for Quel'thalas, while the current high elves are those who wrote off Quel'thalas as lost and chose to build a new life among humanity. Blood Elves are the natural progression of the race, while high elves (not including the ones who were in Outland) have sworn off their old ways because they just hate the Horde that much.

the elves of Quel'lithien were foolish for not accepting help when lorthemar offered it, and they sought a source of corrupted magic that turned them into wretches.

I like the high elves of allerian stronghold because they were quelthalas soldiers who were trapped in another world without being able to return home and the blood elves they met were the evil forces of kael. for example Theloria Shadecloak wanted to go home but thought everyone in quelthalas turned evil like kaelthas, she would surely have traveled with auric to quelthalas after the restoration of the sunwell.

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Lorewise, Sunwalkers and Seers are balance druids using more the Sun side of things to counteract all the Elune influence from Night Elf society trickling in via the tauren druids' connection through the Cenarion Circle. It's not "The Light" as we know it, which is also supported by Aponi Brightmane's interest in learning more about "The Light" in the paladin order hall.



But the Sun wasn't one of those in the elves' case. For the Thalassian elves, they got their light from "The Light" as in the same entity/force the humans worshipped.



If that were the case, their notable light-users would attribute their Light to the Sun, but they attribute it to the traditional Light.

The non-canon but so far not-contradicted (in this subject) RPG book said:

That means it's already not widespread among the high elves. It also says:

I'd take that to mean that it was already relatively rare among high elves, and now is even more so among blood elves.

The Blood Elves' WoWPedia page says:

That's far-removed from the Night Elves' worship of Elune as a very real deity with influence over their lives.

What does the sun / belore represent? the light.

the high elves had priests who used the light and believed in it.

[Koryn123]

That's not true in the case of the Ren'dorei. Both Alleria and Umbric lament the mistake the Sin'dorei made, and vow to bring Quel'thalas back into the fold. Vereesa also seeks to "set the blood elves on the path of redemption", and she has become Alleria's subordinate (at least judging from 8.2), which means she also shares their ideals. They still see themselves as Thalassian, and will always feel connected to Quel'thalas, thus they won't stop fighting until they've freed it.

I suppose until Alleria came back then, what I said was the way things were. Still, Alleria was an oddball in WC2, an elf who wanted to leave instead of protect themselves at home, and she's still doing that. So the high elves are still the non-traditional oddballs who I suppose are more adventurous and want to leave Quel'thalas.

That said, their objection to the blood elves and belief that they need redemption is entirely political because they don't like the Horde. There's nothing moral about it, because they attach their morality to whether or not they're helping the humans with the humans' goals. They put the goals of the human kingdoms before their own, which is why Alleria joined Stormwind when she came back instead of Quel'thalas. The void elves maybe less so. Alleria and the void elves do care about Quel'thalas, they just care about the Alliance more.

I just chalk up Vereesa's tut-tutting at the blood elves to Blizzard's lack of consistent writing, because she'd have to be insane to think murdering Sunreavers is morally fine, but being part of the Horde requires redemption. Best to consider anything that doesn't support what a character is doing right now this very moment to be non-canon or some window into an alternate universe.

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The Farstrider proper calls Vereesa and the Silver Covenant as exiles as well

They're exiles only in the idea that they weren't allowed to go back to Quel'thalas if they were gonna be liabilities who wouldn't drain mana to stay strong to protect people. It was basically sending them a letter like "Stay there in a house with your human friends protecting you. We can't afford any more useless shivering addicts who refuse to drink coffee to stay awake and keep a lookout."

me thinks the Blood Elves being scattered around and being present in almost all Horde operation and outpost gives the impression that they learned their harsh lesson against Anasterian's isolationist policies and they went off to be somewhat... "adventurous" and intermingled with the Horde nowadays

I only mean adventurous and non-isolationist in that they put the needs of other kingdoms before their own. The Blood Elves are doing that too because Blizzard refuses to ever update Quel'thalas from BC times, or to mention any change in a book or anything, but the high elves kick it up a notch by working for different countries.

I got the impression that Elves were supposed to be the Better-mans of Warcraft, but nah Blizzard screwed up and made them the Side-mans for Humans and Orcs from Alliance High Elves to Night Elves to Nightborne to even Lor'themar himself. At least Void Elves seems independently capable and there's still Rommath

Ah yes, Rommath. Grand Magister of Quel'thalas, who's never been allowed to do more than a fireball or a frost nova, while Jaina and Khadgar get to perform kamehameha's regularly. The almighty 40-year old human magi of Dalaran constantly getting to walk all over the hundreds or thousands of year old elven magi of Quel'thalas.

One positive of Blizzard not updating BC Quel'thalas is blood elf players can finally level through Eversong Woods, Ghostlands, and then make good on the elves' mission to get to Outland to join Kael'thas by immediately going there to continue questing.

[Varodoc]

I suppose until Alleria came back then, what I said was the way things were. Still, Alleria was an oddball in WC2, an elf who wanted to leave instead of protect themselves at home, and she's still doing that. So the high elves are still the non-traditional oddballs who I suppose are more adventurous and want to leave Quel'thalas.

That said, their objection to the blood elves and belief that they need redemption is entirely political because they don't like the Horde. There's nothing moral about it, because they attach their morality to whether or not they're helping the humans with the humans' goals. They put the goals of the human kingdoms before their own, which is why Alleria joined Stormwind when she came back instead of Quel'thalas. The void elves maybe less so. Alleria and the void elves do care about Quel'thalas, they just care about the Alliance more.

I just chalk up Vereesa's tut-tutting at the blood elves to Blizzard's lack of consistent writing, because she'd have to be insane to think murdering Sunreavers is morally fine, but being part of the Horde requires redemption. Best to consider anything that doesn't support what a character is doing right now this very moment to be non-canon or some window into an alternate universe.

They all love Quel'thalas, so much so that they are willing to wield dark powers to ensure its future. They just despise the current Thalassian government, that is Horde-aligned and showed no hesitation to mind-control their own people. The Alliance happens to be the Horde's enemy, thus the one political faction that can give them refuge (and plus Alleria's entire family is there).

[Koryn123]

the elves of Quel'lithien were foolish for not accepting help when lorthemar offered it, and they sought a source of corrupted magic that turned them into wretches.

Yup, a shame, but they had every right to choose their fate. They earned it by being the only high elves willing to suffer for their choices, while for Vereesa, the choice was sit comfortably in Rhonin's castle being waited on by servants while she recovered from her addiction with yoga and massages, or go to Quel'thalas and drain mana from animals and fight off an army of zombies.

I like the high elves of allerian stronghold because they were quelthalas soldiers who were trapped in another world without being able to return home and the blood elves they met were the evil forces of kael. for example Theloria Shadecloak wanted to go home but thought everyone in quelthalas turned evil like kaelthas, she would surely have traveled with auric to quelthalas after the restoration of the sunwell.

I also like them, especially because of Auric Sunchaser, their leader. He's the highest-ranking member of the high elves left (Vereesa was a grunt-rank ranger who gave herself the title of Ranger-General in pursuit of working against Quel'thalas, a bit disrespectful) besides maybe Alleria, but she's walked away from Quel'thalas to be Anduin's errand girl, literally.

Auric is the only high elf who put his duty before petty political distaste for the Horde by taking it on himself to be an advocate for high elves at the Sunwell and no doubt ensure they were treated well. While Vereesa and Alleria play politics and pretend to be angels by lecturing the blood elves about being in the Horde, Auric did what Farstriders were supposed to do: Protect their people, and he saw a group of their people who needed protection and representation.

What does the sun / belore represent? the light.

In the literal sense of photons providing visual illumination of one's surroundings. There's no evidence the elves actually worship the sun or attribute the cosmic force of the Light to it the way the night elves did the moon, or get their light from the sun the way the night elves do from Elune.

the high elves had priests who used the light and believed in it.

Yes, keyword is "had" meaning before the Scourge came. There are some blood elves who still believe in the light. Those who were blood elf priests in BC never gave up their faith. We have no named characters, but the possibility exists that there were still followers, evidenced by priest players and priest trainer NPCs.

My contention is that the Light was no longer an important part of blood elf society. You wouldn't have a blood elf citizen walk around saying "Light bless you. Light be with you. For the Light." So far, I've seen no evidence that the Sun was ever part of the elves' Light religion, which wasn't a separate one from the humans. They were followers of the plain old normal Church of Holy Light, perhaps with that high priest as the authority in the region, but they didn't have their own Light religion following the Sun, and still don't to this day.

Today, they're not part of the Stormwind-led Church of Holy Light, but Liadrin, the blood knights, and blood elf priests no doubt have faith in the cosmic entity/power of the Light. I'm saying their society isn't religious toward the Sun or the Light. Individuals, sure, but religion doesn't seem an assumed part of their culture like it is for humans with the Light.

People have incorporated the sun into their speech and architecture, but they don't worship it, nor do they affiliate it with the Light. It's just the sun and represents their rejection of night elf society's emphasis on Elune, and perhaps on worshipping deities in general. So not only do they reject the moon, they might have even rejected deities (until interaction with humanity caused some to be converted to the Light).

[Musta]

k /10chars

[Koryn123]

They all love Quel'thalas, so much so that they are willing to wield dark powers to ensure its future. They just despise the current Thalassian government, that is Horde-aligned and showed no hesitation to mind-control their own people. The Alliance happens to be the Horde's enemy, thus the one political faction that can give them refuge (and plus Alleria's entire family is there).

Alleria clearly CHOSE the Alliance. She didn't go there for refuge. The Void Elves could have been neutral or lived safe on their void asteroid, but they chose the Alliance as well.

Nobody ever mentioned the BC mind controlling scene, so that can't be cited as one of their reasons.

They don't mind Quel'thalas getting involved in world affairs. They only mind that they're on the side of the Horde, ignoring why they're on the side of the Horde. They're putting their Horde/Alliance preference before their Quel'thalas affiliation, willing to make Quel'thalas suffer for daring to adapt to survive.

I'm just frustrated Blizzard made their sandbox but refuse to sit in it. They made Vereesa flip out and go insane in MoP, but refuse to have her or Alleria or anyone else acknowledge anything that happened. I'd like to see Alleria react with horror at what Vereesa did, or if not, just be like "Whatever. They're Horde. They should die." I just want the story to be honest and not do all this two-faced lying nonsense, presenting the story in a way that normies won't think twice about but is very frustrating to people who follow it closely.

Either Vereesa hasn't told Alleria everything, or Alleria is so blinded by her Alliance-alignment that she doesn't care.

The mind-controlling was in BC, 7 years ago as far as I know in the story. Things should have changed since then, if Blizzard would reflect that in-game.

[ravenmoon]

Yup, a shame, but they had every right to choose their fate. They earned it by being the only high elves willing to suffer for their choices, while for Vereesa, the choice was sit comfortably in Rhonin's castle being waited on by servants while she recovered from her addiction with yoga and massages, or go to Quel'thalas and drain mana from animals and fight off an army of zombies.

Some us feel the high elves decision not to revert to magic to slake their thirst as quite a testmaent to will power and moral strength.. nothing cofortable or easy about what htey had to experience, yet to refuse the easier option out - of taking tainted magic - there is nothing weak or comfy about that, quite the opposite.

Blood elves chose to embrace power, high elves continued backing morality with wisdom and inner strength.

[Rhlor]

Yup, a shame, but they had every right to choose their fate. They earned it by being the only high elves willing to suffer for their choices, while for Vereesa, the choice was sit comfortably in Rhonin's castle being waited on by servants while she recovered from her addiction with yoga and massages, or go to Quel'thalas and drain mana from animals and fight off an army of zombies.



I also like them, especially because of Auric Sunchaser, their leader. He's the highest-ranking member of the high elves left (Vereesa was a grunt-rank ranger who gave herself the title of Ranger-General in pursuit of working against Quel'thalas, a bit disrespectful) besides maybe Alleria, but she's walked away from Quel'thalas to be Anduin's errand girl, literally.

Auric is the only high elf who put his duty before petty political distaste for the Horde by taking it on himself to be an advocate for high elves at the Sunwell and no doubt ensure they were treated well. While Vereesa and Alleria play politics and pretend to be angels by lecturing the blood elves about being in the Horde, Auric did what Farstriders were supposed to do: Protect their people, and he saw a group of their people who needed protection and representation.



In the literal sense of photons providing visual illumination of one's surroundings. There's no evidence the elves actually worship the sun or attribute the cosmic force of the Light to it the way the night elves did the moon, or get their light from the sun the way the night elves do from Elune.



Yes, keyword is "had" meaning before the Scourge came. There are some blood elves who still believe in the light. Those who were blood elf priests in BC never gave up their faith. We have no named characters, but the possibility exists that there were still followers, evidenced by priest players and priest trainer NPCs.

My contention is that the Light was no longer an important part of blood elf society. You wouldn't have a blood elf citizen walk around saying "Light bless you. Light be with you. For the Light." So far, I've seen no evidence that the Sun was ever part of the elves' Light religion, which wasn't a separate one from the humans. They were followers of the plain old normal Church of Holy Light, perhaps with that high priest as the authority in the region, but they didn't have their own Light religion following the Sun, and still don't to this day.

Today, they're not part of the Stormwind-led Church of Holy Light, but Liadrin, the blood knights, and blood elf priests no doubt have faith in the cosmic entity/power of the Light. I'm saying their society isn't religious toward the Sun or the Light. Individuals, sure, but religion doesn't seem an assumed part of their culture like it is for humans with the Light.

People have incorporated the sun into their speech and architecture, but they don't worship it, nor do they affiliate it with the Light. It's just the sun and represents their rejection of night elf society's emphasis on Elune, and perhaps on worshipping deities in general. So not only do they reject the moon, they might have even rejected deities (until interaction with humanity caused some to be converted to the Light).

"the eternal sun guide us"

I think the evidence is more in favor of my position.

[Arrashi]

Some us feel the high elves decision not to revert to magic to slake their thirst as quite a testmaent to will power and moral strength.. nothing cofortable or easy about what htey had to experience, yet to refuse the easier option out - of taking tainted magic - there is nothing weak or comfy about that, quite the opposite.

Blood elves chose to embrace power, high elves continued backing morality with wisdom and inner strength.

Really? Because it looked like they were just serving their husbands humans.

[Rhlor]

Some us feel the high elves decision not to revert to magic to slake their thirst as quite a testmaent to will power and moral strength.. nothing cofortable or easy about what htey had to experience, yet to refuse the easier option out - of taking tainted magic - there is nothing weak or comfy about that, quite the opposite.

Blood elves chose to embrace power, high elves continued backing morality with wisdom and inner strength.

morality?? Are you talking about the psychopaths who fed sharks to the blood elves prisoners? they are trash

[Varodoc]

Alleria clearly CHOSE the Alliance. She didn't go there for refuge. The Void Elves could have been neutral or lived safe on their void asteroid, but they chose the Alliance as well.

Nobody ever mentioned the BC mind controlling scene, so that can't be cited as one of their reasons.

They don't mind Quel'thalas getting involved in world affairs. They only mind that they're on the side of the Horde, ignoring why they're on the side of the Horde. They're putting their Horde/Alliance preference before their Quel'thalas affiliation, willing to make Quel'thalas suffer for daring to adapt to survive.

I'm just frustrated Blizzard made their sandbox but refuse to sit in it. They made Vereesa flip out and go insane in MoP, but refuse to have her or Alleria or anyone else acknowledge anything that happened. I'd like to see Alleria react with horror at what Vereesa did, or if not, just be like "Whatever. They're Horde. They should die." I just want the story to be honest and not do all this two-faced lying nonsense, presenting the story in a way that normies won't think twice about but is very frustrating to people who follow it closely.

Either Vereesa hasn't told Alleria everything, or Alleria is so blinded by her Alliance-alignment that she doesn't care.

The mind-controlling was in BC, 7 years ago as far as I know in the story. Things should have changed since then, if Blizzard would reflect that in-game.

Yes, and she chose them because the rest of her family was there, making it the natural choice. I find it both presumptuous and hilarious that you think she made the bad or morally wrong choice.

I cited the mind-control event from TBC because you keep acting like the Horde-aligned government are saints while Alleria is so evil and despicable for choosing the Alliance. How dare a woman, who has not seen her son in 1.000 years, dare put her family over her political affiliations!

[Bumkin]

Blood elves used to be mana junkies doing fel, bloodthistle and forcibly bending the light to their will.
Night elves used to be savage women guerilla fighters.

Well they are elves, the most boring race in fantasy across almost all settings.

elves are the coolest race stop being so jealous

[Kyphael]

Night Elves definitely are, Blood Elves are fun.