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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    If that's what you care about god speed Epigramx! I personally don't give a fuck about that and WoW is meaningful enough for me.
    The excessive farming may kill it for me to be honest. Having Entertainment as a meaningful goal for a few hours is not bad and various people in this thread say they control it and I believe it.

    But that darn excessive farming to achieve most goals in this game is unavoidable (I recently played Hades which was great but it was literally more fun to use a trainer (it's a single-player so it's fine) at its end-game because it needed so much farming to get almost nothing out of it).

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I didn't start with raids but with 5mans. You forget many things because you spend so much time in it that you think they are obvious to everyone.

    e.g. various 5mans may ruin the experience of the other 4 if you have no clue which trash to collect because 80% of the trash is often skippable.
    You started with raids in your last sentence.

    No, I didn't forget it. Most mechanics in the game are: don't stand in stuff, don't stand in front, kick/stun it. Obviously there are some different, too, but those are NOT deadly on normal (most mechanics aren't).
    Doesn't matter on normal, as you get experience for them. If you are unsure about the route, open the map - most dungeons got a very obvious fixed route.

    You try to hide behind things that you think that they block you .. they aren't. You can just hop into dungeons as completely new player tanking (read my post) and just follow the map-routes. As long as you got some very basic knowledge as tank (turn enemies, use defensives, using dps abilities correct) you are good to go.

  3. #43
    If you look at WoW as an addictive substance, then it is exactly the same as any other other i.e. alcohol or marihuana. When consumed within normal limits, it is perfectly fine.

    But the moment it starts ruining your life, or just affecting it too much like you missing real life events because you have a raid and then regretting it later on, it becomes a huge problem.

    If you are not mentally strong enough to control yourself, and limit your time you are spending in game, cancel your account. That's the only way you'll be able to assure you never relapse back to your old habits.

    You mentioning how farming is dumb, and that you have to put in effort to be able to play properly, what exactly were you expecting from an MMO ? Just to be handed everything for free ?

    I have been playing WoW for over 14 years now, and throughout my life, it has taught me so much. I learned English to a point where both my pronunciation and writting are close to perfect, my organizing skills are much higher than those of an average person, my reaction time is insanely high (though that's probably more from DotA than WoW, but still), I made countless friends from all over Europe, some of which I've visited and had a time of my life in staying in their houses in many different cities.

    I am 27 now, I have a full time job and I am not playing as much as I did before. But I still do, and, for an example, killing N'Zoth on mythic felt great. Satisfaction was unreal. Would I say that time I spent in the game back in the day when I played 12+ hours a day was a waste ? Heck no. The complete opposite. I probably wouldn't have my job as a consultant in an IT firm had it not been for Wow, to teach me how to talk to people to get a certain job done and develop a bunch of other useful people-skills.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by robthelerm View Post
    are you talking mythic+? if you are, yeah, you need to know whats going on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    NOT deadly on normal (most mechanics aren't).
    You have forgotten parts of this game I see. Start a ~100 character and enter the random finder.
    If you survive bad multiple trash pulls in Halls of Valor with average randoms go apply to Complexity Limit and Method and Pieces because you apparently achieved god like status.

  5. #45
    I am Murloc! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    I played WoW for an unhealthy amount of time when I was young because it was the best videogame I could have and all my progress carried over to the next expansion. What's not to love?

    I realized how bad my situation was after I felt the same rush of happiness for both IRL accomplishments and in-game accomplishments, like feats of strength/aotc achievements. I would not say that WoW ruined my life, because I still carried on with all my duties and, frankly, coronavirus did me more harm in these past sucky months than WoW did in 10+ years.
    I think the key to getting rid of the addiction is to remind yourself that what you do in the game doesn't make you a bigger/better person. You don't have anything to show for your new exalted reputation and the hours put into clearing mythic content could have been enough to learn something new or get a certificate.

    When they quit, people come to these forums to rage at the game, like they finally saw the terrible truth that the game has been draining their soul. They want to go out with a bang, but that's not how anything works in life. Things fade out, and they can be reinvigorated if one cares enough. THey eventually wither and die if you let them. This applies to health, studies, relationships, even WoW.

    Nowadays I can only muster to play 2 hours of WoW every day, 3 if it's raid night. After that, I feel like I want to spend my free time somewhere else. Watch a movie, a series, read a book, play another game entirely. But the change can only come with deep realization.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    I used to game 18-20h per day back in my 20's. I regret this. But I'm past that and it's because I changed my way of thinking.
    Yeah, I still love gaming. I have top of the line computer because I game. I also have board games for €10.000+ and a high-end VR system.
    But it's just a fucking hobby I pick up when I have nothing more important to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fartoo View Post
    I have been playing WoW for over 14 years now, and throughout my life, it has taught me so much. I learned English to a point where both my pronunciation and writting are close to perfect, my organizing skills are much higher than those of an average person, my reaction time is insanely high (though that's probably more from DotA than WoW, but still), I made countless friends from all over Europe, some of which I've visited and had a time of my life in staying in their houses in many different cities.

    I am 27 now, I have a full time job and I am not playing as much as I did before. But I still do, and, for an example, killing N'Zoth on mythic felt great. Satisfaction was unreal. Would I say that time I spent in the game back in the day when I played 12+ hours a day was a waste ? Heck no. The complete opposite. I probably wouldn't have my job as a consultant in an IT firm had it not been for Wow, to teach me how to talk to people to get a certain job done and develop a bunch of other useful people-skills.
    You two seem to be the most successful in this thread at playing strictly for Entertainment and controlling it well. That's great. How many hours a day do you play?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    You have forgotten parts of this game I see. Start a ~100 character and enter the random finder.
    If you survive bad multiple trash pulls in Halls of Valor with average randoms go apply to Complexity Limit and Method and Pieces because you apparently achieved god like status.
    Nothing easier than those normals. I'm so bored that I play many dungeons, as I said before.
    Even my completely new buddy is able to do those dungeons.

    And you say it yourself: average random. Those people don't know anything. They don't kick, they stay in stuff, don't pull enemies out of healing circles... and most of all: don't know how to play. ONE player can be the difference. BE the one. Know your character and carry those normals.

  8. #48
    its definitely a delusion

    gaming is a choice, so are many other things in life

    but its comforting doing what you already know for sure

  9. #49
    The truth about drugs / addiction is quite simple.

    Drugs give what you need and take what you have. When starting doing them they give much and take little, this turns the opposite over time. Once you are used to getting from the drug what you need entirely and stopped getting it through other sources (what often happens, as taking the drug is the quickest and easiest way), you are addicted. When the drug has taken most of what you formerly had (mental and physical health, social contacts, work, money etc.) and isn't barely giving anymore you are fucked.

    The art of of taking drugs is stopping early enough to be able to recover, so you can repeat the cycle where you still gain a lot from them.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    It's the delusion that accomplishing anything hard/easy/whatever is something that I must do otherwise it would be a fault. It's a delusion though because life is filled with hard/easy/whatever tasks to complete (e.g. a task to be good at computer software or building houses or starting a business) so doing something else that is more meaningful/beneficial/complete might be a better investment than a video game that has no real life profit(unless you do it illegally) and you interact with people with a clear distance and with a design that favors farming over skill for most of the time.
    Fun is the only profit you can gain from games. So if you are not gaining fun you are certainly not profiting. Now if the fun equals being the best of them all/king of the game etc then things can get tricky.
    WoW forums in a nutshell:
    m8 i've been around since Feb 2005, I know it all.
    So I was using a gold dupe hack. I don't know why i was banned for this. It is so unfair.
    People need an incentive to play content. "Its fun!" is simply not enough.

  11. #51
    The Lightbringer Strawberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    You two seem to be the most successful in this thread at playing strictly for Entertainment and controlling it well. That's great. How many hours a day do you play?
    I don't play WoW currently. Have not played it for a year or so.
    Planning to come back once the pre-patch lands, level up from scratch then play casually, mostly solo. I'll see if I can find a social guild to talk to people.
    When it comes to gaming, I have not played much since April. Barely anything. It's something I do when the weather is bad.
    But since I am a gamer at heart, I don't game for 1-2 hours, I do it for 8-10 hours straight if I have time. Just make sure it's not my priority.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    You two seem to be the most successful in this thread at playing strictly for Entertainment and controlling it well. That's great. How many hours a day do you play?
    Well, it depends. Just to get a bigger picture, I am also very extroverted, I love clubbing with friends, hanging out, going out for karaoke or just casual beers, but I also really love staying at home and playing videogames (most of which is WoW).

    It differs from day to day, and what I did or didn't do that week. The average I'd say would be around 3-4 hours (was more while we were progressing mythic, it's lower now that we're in Shadowlands waiting room).

    Some days I wont even log on, some days I'll stay online until 5 am and then be sleepy and pissed off at work the entire day. It really comes down to what I did that day and what I feel like doing to relax.

    It all comes down to prioritizing your life, if I've done all the quality-of-life-assuring stuff, I'm just gonna sit down and play. But, I am never going to play if I have work, cleaning, cooking or any other more important chore needing to be done. If you manage to do all of whats important, I see no harm in playing WoW for the rest of your day.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by october breeze View Post
    My addiction to WoW mostly cured by first BFA, second I found a better hobby. I tried to channel my enjoyment into coding and launched my first app couple of month ago. That was such a fulfilling moment and way more satisfactory than winning any loot or item in WoW
    I recently started as a gamedev, bought a book about c# and started learning a few months ago and it's pretty much sucking up all my time, I'm getting the same feeling (or even better) when I finally manage to complete a part of my current project, even the tiniest pieces give me lots of joy when they are done.
    Didn't cure my WoW addiction tho.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by CylomDashti View Post
    I recently started as a gamedev, bought a book about c# and started learning a few months ago and it's pretty much sucking up all my time, I'm getting the same feeling (or even better) when I finally manage to complete a part of my current project, even the tiniest pieces give me lots of joy when they are done.
    Didn't cure my WoW addiction tho.
    You probably do stuff in wow that you do not do otherwise at all. E.g. talking to friends.

    Then again there is also the notion that life is suffering by necessity sometimes.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    That's such a broken mentality. If you only focus on doing something more beneficial and that brings a profit, you may never have fun again.
    Why go on vacation, movies, bar etc when you can work some more.
    I don't think OPs ideas are bad or wrong.

    As far as the slogans on the glossy covered magazines go, the key is to find an occupation in life that is fun. Combine the fun with the profitable. Beyond that, say, if gaming is your outlet to be competitive, then try to find a real-life niche that benefits from your competitive trait and lets you make a fortune along the way. Most people are just not capable to rationalize and implement it in their lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by robthelerm View Post
    Also, idk bro, but wow is easy af. You can pick up the game anytime (even someone who hasn't played) and can do the bare minimum to get by.
    WoW is easy in the way that you don't need a high intellectual capacity to play it. But it's hard in the way that it requires you to be invested. I think many people can relate to the experience I had coming back from long breaks... You log in and realize it's not the same game anymore. There are 10 different progression/loot/currency/difficulty systems built on top of each other, and you know nothing of it all. That's when you start thinking whether you want to get immersed in this, or better log off and go for other time sinks in your life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boddhi View Post
    The truth about drugs / addiction is quite simple.

    Drugs give what you need and take what you have. When starting doing them they give much and take little, this turns the opposite over time. Once you are used to getting from the drug what you need entirely and stopped getting it through other sources (what often happens, as taking the drug is the quickest and easiest way), you are addicted. When the drug has taken most of what you formerly had (mental and physical health, social contacts, work, money etc.) and isn't barely giving anymore you are fucked.
    Thanks, that's insightful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    Just a side information: some weeks ago a new player started the game, he struggled hard and asked for help - I helped him, he changed his class, got some basic informations. He had a blast! He almost stopped playing the game. After some levels, we went through some of the higher knowledge, like keybindings/changing movement keys - he was very promising and he got up to all of it in no time. While he is a new player, he is better than MANY people I know. He's better than most mid/high m+ player, if I'd have to rate his skill-ceiling.
    Some times ago he even started a tank - obviously having no tanking exp, at all. At first it looked like he wants to stop it - but he's playing his tank from time to time up to these days. And he's doing a good job (obviously many mistakes, because he's not experienced with this role). I just helped him playing his first couple of dungeons, since then he's doing it on his own.
    I think all high end content (raids, M+, PvP) in WoW require more commitment than skills. I think there are many deeply casual players who currently find M+0s hard, but have the potential to play in Limit/Echo if they suddenly decided to commit to the game.

    And so, if I had to predict which players would end up playing hardcore content, I would say it's a red flag when someone chooses to frequently reroll, or even to play alts. I think that's a sign that some unhealthy obsession, some perfectionism, is missing in there.

    EDIT: Actually, I would not want to debate on the fact the high end content requires more commitment than skills. It requires a very careful approach to defining what is "skill", and there are many fallacies to this. Otherwise, I could come here and tell that being a software developer at Google is likewise more commitment than skills... most things in life are that way. Because there is no inherent skill in being a good software developer... You just have to force yourself to commit to constantly keep on learning and adapting. It's no different from being a top end WoW player. Right?... Right?!...
    Last edited by ID811717; 2020-09-27 at 08:10 AM.

  16. #56
    In my case I guess I was waiting for WoW to "get fixed". I mean it was almost there but had some key problems or so I thought, so maybe, one day..
    Then I tried other Blizzard games and realized that those flaws are present there as well and part of their core philosophy so I moved on and now only play WoW very casually and take long breaks.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    I think all high end content (raids, M+, PvP) in WoW require more commitment than skills. I think there are many deeply casual players who currently find M+0s hard, but have the potential to play in Limit/Echo if they suddenly decided to commit to the game.

    And so, if I had to predict which players would end up playing hardcore content, I would say it's a red flag when someone chooses to frequently reroll, or even to play alts. I think that's a sign that some unhealthy obsession, some perfectionism, is missing in there.

    EDIT: Actually, I would not want to debate on the fact the high end content requires more commitment than skills. It requires a very careful approach to defining what is "skill", and there are many fallacies to this. Otherwise, I could come here and tell that being a software developer at Google is likewise more commitment than skills... most things in life are that way. Because there is no inherent skill in being a good software developer... You just have to force yourself to commit to constantly keep on learning and adapting. It's no different from being a top end WoW player. Right?... Right?!...
    Well, the thread is mostly about normal leveling dungeons, which is why I didn't use any M+ stuff.

    For me, skill is about learning everything and then using it where it is demanded. Ofc, you have to commit for this, but in the end, it's about using all knowledge in the right way. Just because you know stuff doesn't mean you are using or doing it right - or better than someone who is better in universally using knowledge on other things and adapting on the fly. If you know most basics things in WoW (like voidzones, kicks ...) you CAN use it on the newest content without even reading on sentence about what is happening with mechanic x or y. Ofc you can read it all up, but imo people that do not HAVE TO read everything up are the more skilled people.

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