Mafia - Definitive Edition

[Extrakt]

So recently Mafia 1 got remade and it looks really good. I just purchased it as I was a fan of the original.
Anyone else keen to replay it again?

Here is a comparison video.

[Dakhath]

Definitely going to pick it up to play over the weekend. Looks like the devs really hit it out of the park.

[LoLcano]

Well since i already bought it once when it was new and later on lost the disc and then bought it again on steam few years ago i think i'm gonna pirate this one.i already paid twice !

[Fencers]

I always thought this series had so much promise but every game left me wanting in some way. Maybe I'll buy the remast on sale or something. But I don't think the fundamentals of the game likely changed.

[Dakhath]

Well since i already bought it once when it was new and later on lost the disc and then bought it again on steam few years ago i think i'm gonna pirate this one.i already paid twice !

The hoops people jump through to justify not paying for something never cease to make me laugh.

[LoLcano]

The hoops people jump through to justify not paying for something never cease to make me laugh.

Well i'm not gonna pay for same game 3 times . you go ahead and do it .

[Mister K]

Going to pick it up. My friend played the first on PC back before I knew much about computers or games or even the English language so could not appreciate the game. Played the second with my first GTX460 card I believe and had a blast! Never gave 3 a chance, wasn't a fan but the story was so captivating. Always wanted more but 3 just did not live up to it.

Looking forward to it.

- - - Updated - - -

I always thought this series had so much promise but every game left me wanting in some way. Maybe I'll buy the remast on sale or something. But I don't think the fundamentals of the game likely changed.

Indeed, I do think they did well, but always wanted the story to go deeper.

[Nuciek]

Well i'm not gonna pay for same game 3 times . you go ahead and do it .

So you paid once, then you lost it and paid for it second time because of your own fault and now you're going to steal (yes, it's stealing) someones work because of your own incompetence? Yes, you're justifying yourself but you're not entitled to anything. They didn't loose your disc, you did. And they didn't tell you to buy the game second time, you wanted to play it so you bought it.

[Yriel]

So you paid once, then you lost it and paid for it second time because of your own fault and now you're going to steal (yes, it's stealing)

No it's not.
It's copyright infringement, sorry that it doesn't sound so catchy.

[Nuciek]

No it's not.
It's copyright infringement, sorry that it doesn't sound so catchy.

More sophisticated name for stealing "virtual" products, because in the end you are stealing a revenue from the person that owns the copyrights. And whatever you call it, it doesn't change the fact that it's illegal and bad. Are you trying to make me look worse, because you are also stealing games?

[Yriel]

More sophisticated name for stealing "virtual" products, because in the end you are stealing a revenue from the person that owns the copyrights. And whatever you call it, it doesn't change the fact that it's illegal and bad. Are you trying to make me look worse, because you are also stealing games?

No one is stealing games except when they take a physical box from a store without paying. You can't steal virtual goods because for you to steal something, someone else must lose it. You are just making an illegal copy, and that is called copyright infringement.
I studied that shit and i hate it when people call out wrong crimes to make something more dramatic. Same with murder.

[Nuciek]

No one is stealing games except when they take a physical box from a store without paying. You can't steal virtual goods because for you to steal something, someone else must lose it. You are just making an illegal copy, and that is called copyright infringement.
I studied that shit and i hate it when people call out wrong crimes to make something more dramatic. Same with murder.

So you studied law probably? What you learn at law school is what is defined by law, and law is different in different countries. I'm simplifying it in terms of ethics. It's stealing because you steal from the owner of the IP the chance to get a revenue and his control over his work. If you copy a program from someone (like a game) he can't control anymore who has it and what is happening with it. That's stealing. Of course we can debate for 10 pages now but in the end you're trying to discredit my post, and the only person who would benefit from it is another software thief.

[Yriel]

So you studied law probably? What you learn at law school is what is defined by law, and law is different in different countries. I'm simplifying it in terms of ethics. It's stealing because you steal from the owner of the IP the chance to get a revenue and his control over his work. If you copy a program from someone (like a game) he can't control anymore who has it and what is happening with it. That's stealing. Of course we can debate for 10 pages now but in the end you're trying to discredit my post, and the only person who would benefit from it is another software thief.

Why would they benefit from it?
Copyright infringement is illegal and you can be punished for it.
Why try to make it sound more serious than it is? Why not go all the way and call it software murder because ... don't know... you murdered the income of the publisher or something?

As for the topic... just like with all remakes, i'd really like if they would make the remake cheaper for people who already own the game. Sadly, just like with Amalur, i don't think they are worth the price if you already played them, especially with the big backlogs everybody has.
I'll wait for a sale.

[Nuciek]

Why would they benefit from it?
Copyright infringement is illegal and you can be punished for it.
Why try to make it sound more serious than it is? Why not go all the way and call it software murder because ... don't know... you murdered the income of the publisher or something?

As for the topic... just like with all remakes, i'd really like if they would make the remake cheaper for people who already own the game. Sadly, just like with Amalur, i don't think they are worth the price if you already played them, especially with the big backlogs everybody has.
I'll wait for a sale.

That right here is why it should be called stealing and I will call it stealing, because I think it's stealing in an ethical sense. Even though you said you can be punished for it you don't treat it as seriously as stealing but it's on the same level. It's not any less serious any any less bad than stealing from someone. In law it's called copyright infringement because the law has to differentiate those two things because law is complicated and is different for physical possesions and IP. Normal people and ethics don't have to, because ethics are not based around single sentence in one codex that can decide if someone is guilty or not.

Going around and saying that it's not stealing, it's copyright infringement, saying "Why try to make it sound more serious than it is?" makes them think it's nothing bad. It's like crossing the street on the red light - "I broke the law, but no harm, right? It's not like I stole from anyone." People should learn that it's as bad as stealing. We can call it either stealing (because someone looses money because of you) or slavery (because someone works for free so you can enjoy their work without their consent), so which one would you prefer? Copying someones work is not cool, it's not justified in any means and it doesn't make them cool pirates, they are just thieves but behind a pc.

[Yriel]

That right here is why it should be called stealing and I will call it stealing, because I think it's stealing in an ethical sense. Even though you said you can be punished for it you don't treat it as seriously as stealing but it's on the same level. It's not any less serious any any less bad than stealing from someone. In law it's called copyright infringement because the law has to differentiate those two things because law is complicated and is different for physical possesions and IP. Normal people and ethics don't have to, because ethics are not based around single sentence in one codex that can decide if someone is guilty or not.

Going around and saying that it's not stealing, it's copyright infringement, saying "Why try to make it sound more serious than it is?" makes them think it's nothing bad. It's like crossing the street on the red light - "I broke the law, but no harm, right? It's not like I stole from anyone." People should learn that it's as bad as stealing. We can call it either stealing (because someone looses money because of you) or slavery (because someone works for free so you can enjoy their work without their consent), so which one would you prefer? Copying someones work is not cool, it's not justified in any means and it doesn't make them cool pirates, they are just thieves but behind a pc.

I mean, this is really OT now but, in Law there are certain principles why and how hard you punish someone. And part of why theft is punished as it is, is because a) you took something that you don't own and b) someone else had something and does not have it anymore. The b) is an important part and makes theft theft. There are several variations, if you take something by force it's not theft but robbery. If you decieve the other person to give it to you it's fraud (or at least could be). And if you copy something without permission it's copyright infringement.
There is a reason those terms exist.

You can think of it as theft or morder or rape, it doesn't matter, it isn't legally (and, at least for me, it isn't morally either because getting something that you own taken away from you is, at least for me, worse than losing potential profit).

And excuse me for maybe using the wrong english law terms, i studied it in Germany and i'm not experienced in english law terms. And by the way here it's even worse, they try to call it "Raubkopieren" which can't really be translated but consists of the words "Raub" = Robbery and "Kopieren" = copy. It's so stupid.

[Nuciek]

I mean, this is really OT now but, in Law there are certain principles why and how hard you punish someone. And part of why theft is punished as it is, is because a) you took something that you don't own and b) someone else had something and does not have it anymore. The b) is an important part and makes theft theft. There are several variations, if you take something by force it's not theft but robbery. If you decieve the other person to give it to you it's fraud (or at least could be). And if you copy something without permission it's copyright infringement.
There is a reason those terms exist.

You can think of it as theft or morder or rape, it doesn't matter, it isn't legally (and, at least for me, it isn't morally either because getting something that you own taken away from you is, at least for me, worse than losing potential profit).

And excuse me for maybe using the wrong english law terms, i studied it in Germany and i'm not experienced in english law terms. And by the way here it's even worse, they try to call it "Raubkopieren" which can't really be translated but consists of the words "Raub" = Robbery and "Kopieren" = copy. It's so stupid.

I understand that by law you have to divide it in different categories, but as you can see different countries use different languages and that's why different names are used to differentiate, but that doesn't mean they are completely different things. I don't agree that theft is worse, because with copy you are loosing something except the potential profit, something that is guaranteed by copyrights - a control over your work. You can no longer decide who has access to it and what is done to it, because someone who owns a copy of your work can do it too without your knowledge or consent. You lost something because of copyright infringement. That meets the moral criteria of stealing. I also don't agree it's different because if everyone copied the game instead of buying than the developer would loose all the work and money put into it, without any profit.

I know it's OT but looks like noone is interested in this topic anyway and I have one more question, related to the fact you think stealing is more serious.
What's worse - stealing a bread from bakery or copying a software you don't own licence for?

[Yriel]

I understand that by law you have to divide it in different categories, but as you can see different countries use different languages and that's why different names are used to differentiate, but that doesn't mean they are completely different things. I don't agree that theft is worse, because with copy you are loosing something except the potential profit, something that is guaranteed by copyrights - a control over your work. You can no longer decide who has access to it and what is done to it, because someone who owns a copy of your work can do it too without your knowledge or consent. You lost something because of copyright infringement. That meets the moral criteria of stealing. I also don't agree it's different because if everyone copied the game instead of buying than the developer would loose all the work and money put into it, without any profit.

I know it's OT but looks like noone is interested in this topic anyway and I have one more question, related to the fact you think stealing is more serious.
What's worse - stealing a bread from bakery or copying a software you don't own licence for?

If we image the software and the bread have the same price? Then i think stealing the bread is worse because the bakery is losing an actual loaf of bread and not, like the software company, a potential sale that may or may not happen. Even if the bakery does not sell the bread, they still have it. They can eat it themselves or give it some homeless person or whatever.

Let me ask a question back... What is worse, losing an item that you have many memories of to a thief or maybe getting a bit less money this month?

[Nuciek]

If we image the software and the bread have the same price? Then i think stealing the bread is worse because the bakery is losing an actual loaf of bread and not, like the software company, a potential sale that may or may not happen. Even if the bakery does not sell the bread, they still have it. They can eat it themselves or give it some homeless person or whatever.

Let me ask a question back... What is worse, losing an item that you have many memories of to a thief or maybe getting a bit less money this month?

I agree that bakery still has the bread, but again you are not taking into consideration a fact that developer would still have full control over his product. If someone copies the game he might share it with others, so it might be 1 potential client, or 101 potential clients if he shared it with 100 other people. If you studied law then you know that if you commit something illegal you might be judged for having been responsible for loss of potential profit by a company. Not likely in this case, but this idea exists within the law. So if let's say bread was 2$, bakery will loose 2$, not more, not less. The developer for software worth 2$ could loose 0 (but considering that someone who stole it also used it, and should already be accounted as a loss of profit) or could loose 2$, or 50$ or 500$, just because of this first single copy.

Answering your question: it depends, if the value is the same of course loosing the item that I have many memories of is worse but you're giving an example of something unique vs something that is not unique. Value of something unique is higher than something common. Like a car can cost 10 000$, but if it's unique model that someone famous used it can cost 100 000$. If someone stole from me a potential profit of 20 000$ from stealing IP it would be worse to steal the IP than the common car, and it would be even worse to steal the unique car, but if the IP would be worth a potential profit of 200 000$ it would be again worse to steal the IP.

So going back to your question, I'll gladly give away my old shirt that I have many memories of and it's worth 10$ if I can earn 100$ more this month. There's a price on everything, even on an Oscar and Nobel awards.

[Edge-]

Folks, this isn't the thread to discuss the legality/ethics of piracy. Keep discussion on the Mafia remaster, please.

[Verdugo]

While I appreciate the story expansion, did they really have to cut off most of the post-mission driving? And Lucas Bertone missions for that matter? Bank mission was cut in half because of that.