Genshin Impact

[qwerty123456]

That's a lot of hits, seems reasonable.

Yeah but your average player probably isn't going to have a defensive character built up that high unless they like em. And I have artifact farming, cash spent, battle passes and shit invested in her. So its easy to see how regular players could struggle in the open world. And those were just the regular attacks.

[blackpink]

What?

This doesn't even make sense. It's not even like you can buy infinite artifacts like you can with pulls. I've never bought more than the one 50 primo resin refresh daily, and I have a ton of level 16-20 5* artifacts. (Don't level them all to 20 right away, it's the most expensive part by far.)

Dismissing everything with, "Must be pay to win." is ridiculous. It sounds like people are just trying to make excuses for poor resource management.

Resin refreshes on artifact domains or world bosses. Not hard to understand really. "Poor resource management" is such a crappy counter-argument to this. Leveling a shitty flower to +20 is exactly what poor resource management is...

And the comment was in response to him saying artifact route is useless. Saying that's useless is definitely a sign of someone who pays.

[qwerty123456]

That's just it though, you're not supposed to be facetanking all those hits. That's the design of the game.

If you're actively avoiding hits and not just relying on stats to win you can fight many AR50 mobs using a level 1 character, though it'll take a while. That's why they give you a generous stamina bar for dodging and generally let you chain CC most enemies or give them clear attack telegraphs.

Some characters are built around stamina attacks. If you use it all you're gonna get hit by something. It was never about taking all the hits it was about mobs possibly being dangerous for some people. And as far as I am aware artifacts don't gain a lvl cap increase at 50 so level 20 are basically end game artifacts. Yes you can use level one characters by using ult immunity and other tricks but the average joe player likely doesn't know any of that stuff.

[blackpink]

I don't get why the debate about "characters can get one-shot at high WR" is revolving around level 1 characters. Why is this the discussion?

It's because of what Kray wrote. I'm at ar 47 and my lower level characters (40-50) get dangerously low from a hit and any lower than that will get 1 shot. It most likely is worse at ar 50 and on.

[blackpink]

If you're actively avoiding hits and not just relying on stats to win you can fight many AR50 mobs using a level 1 character, though it'll take a while. That's why they give you a generous stamina bar for dodging and generally let you chain CC most enemies or give them clear attack telegraphs.

That's exactly the point. Kray was saying it like you literally can't get one hit, when he was just actually being elitist.

[blackpink]

Explain to me how free 30k xp in artifacts is useless.

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Except you can't actually refresh as much as you seem to be suggesting

um, it's quite a lot.

[qwerty123456]

Except you can't actually refresh as much as you seem to be suggesting, nor do you need to in order to level your artifacts. Also, no one said to level a crappy flower to 20. Pretty sure everyone was clear to NOT do that.

And no, it's not a crappy counter-argument, it's exactly what's going on here. There's no other way someone is AR50 and still hasn't leveled a team with fairly good artifacts and talents. I don't even know what they'd have been spending all their resources on, but it clearly wasn't focused progression.

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But it's not "tricks". The game is designed around not being hit as much as you can. It's the core design of the combat system, not some obscure trick.

If people are trying to play the game like WoW, they're going to have a bad time, unfortunately.

First off Kray did mention lvl 20 artifacts. Second not realizing there is an immunity during an ult is certainly a "trick". Just like knowing shields aren't additive but the highest one. They mentioned it once in a single post that I don't even think is visible in game anymore how is your average joe player gonna know that? Also the core of the game isn't about not being hit its about elemental reactions. You wouldn't have an entire element based on shields(getting hit) and a ton of other characters with shield abilities if it was about not being hit. Hell even Beidou "requires" you to get hit to be the most effective.

Everything in this game is RNG I could see someone having worse luck than I and getting 20 sets + sets of 2 green and 2 blue skill books instead of just 5 in a row like I did yesterday. Also the rewards from the battlepass give you an insane boost. I could see a f2p player who ends up with a pretty shitty setup at that point.

[blackpink]

And no, it's not a crappy counter-argument, it's exactly what's going on here. There's no other way someone is AR50 and still hasn't leveled a team with fairly good artifacts and talents. I don't even know what they'd have been spending all their resources on, but it clearly wasn't focused progression.

What is your definition of fairly good artifacts? just good main stat and ignoring set? cuz im gunna be close to hitting 50 and not having a good set on 1 character. Although 48-50 is still a bit of ar xp but I'm also not hardcore grinding domains either.

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I can only assume that people complaining about this just aren't playing very often. Which is fine, but I don't know what they expect.

Except...you can't play a lot? What?

[qwerty123456]

You're talking about special abilities that try to mitigate being hit. The idea is still to avoid being hit the majority of the time, that's why there are huge telegraphs, that's why you can dodge a high number of times in most content, that's why a lot of attacks will come close to killing you no matter what in Abyss 12, and so on.

There's no two ways about this, the game intends for you to avoid damage most of the time, not try to "stat" your way through it.

An entire element is based around mitigating damage. They expect you to get hit. And you can't dodge a ton unless your character is built around light attacks. They designed the game so there are multiple ways to play except for elemental reactions. You could have a team of all bow users and range everything or all great sword users if you wanted to and it would be viable as long as you got elemental reactions to break em. You wanna glass cannon and go all attack you can, you wanna build around hp and defense you can. You wanna try to take out a fire mages shield with a team of all fire users you probably can't unless you got some phys dmg and even then I'm not sure I never attempted it.

[blackpink]

I mean I've posted here several times about my luck with world boss drops. About all I got are a godly set for noelle (if ignoring set bonus) and bis for a defense scaling character who also uses wanderers...and that's about it. I'm not gunna use my glad pcs with healing bonus/hp/defense on it. The only decent pcs I have are the ones I got from farming domains.

Speaking of domains, I'm missing a good flower, hourglass, and helm. The flower is decent, the hourglass sucks (only has the atk main stat), and the helm also sucks. So I'm still missing a decent amount. Only my feather and cup are good which tbf is like 70% of the damage but the issue is I'm trying to get a better hourglass to level it, it's at like +4 or something right now. I'm not leveling it up cuz it has garbage stats.

[qwerty123456]

Ok, well, I'm just going to say that if you're approaching the game with a mindset of, "The game doesn't actually expect me to dodge" that's probably why someone might come to the conclusion that things are hitting too hard as they level up.

I'm not saying that people think you should never dodge anything. But to say the game is designed on dodging everything is silly. If average joe see's that X's talents and skills are most effective when used as a heavy stamina drain attack they are going to spend most if not all on stam and use their dodges for a mobs massive attacks.

Too much of the games content is focused on stamina use for the game to be based on dodging as its main focus. If it was they likely would have had dodges use a separate resource system like other games. Clearly the true focus of combat is elemental reactions.

[blackpink]

Clearly the true focus of combat is elemental reactions.

This is 100% what it is. That's how that f2p was able to clear. There's also people who cleared spiral abyss with low level characters by abusing reactions.

[blackpink]

The whole point of charged attacks is the tradeoff, which is why you don't see them used in harder content on most teams.

Characters who are REALLY focused around them get talents that make them not cost stamina under the right circumstances. (Klee, Ningguang as good examples)

And no, it's not silly. The game very much expects you to start avoiding pretty much every major attack and mechanic in harder content. Yeah, you can take some hilichurl crossbow hits, or just about anything from smaller mobs, but getting hit by any telegraph, mechanic, or larger attack is going to be extremely dangerous. Shields give you some leeway, but only a bit.

Ok are we talking about dodging as in the iframe dodge or manually dodging, cuz that's 2 different things. I can't use the iframe for every ability on childe for example. I run out of stamina quite fast. I have to ease off ocassionally and "dodge" manually which is terrible design but i'll save my rant on that.

[qwerty123456]

The whole point of charged attacks is the tradeoff, which is why you don't see them used in harder content on most teams.

Characters who are REALLY focused around them get talents that make them not cost stamina under the right circumstances. (Klee, Ningguang as good examples)

And no, it's not silly. The game very much expects you to start avoiding pretty much every major attack and mechanic in harder content. Yeah, you can take some hilichurl crossbow hits, or just about anything from smaller mobs, but getting hit by any telegraph, mechanic, or larger attack is going to be extremely dangerous. Shields give you some leeway, but only a bit.

Like I said earlier I did a Childe 3 (im only 49 so cant do 4) no heals no res solo run for fun today. Even knowing I had to watch my stamina like a hawk I was not able to dodge everything he throws at you I had to make use of shields and in the end ended up with 3 dead chars and barely beating him. You don't have enough stamina for them to expect you to dodge everything in a fight.

I might not be a good player and people probably can do the challenge better than me but my point is the game isn't designed around you being an ultra instinct dodger.

[qwerty123456]

Saying that Envi cleared floor 12 "by abusing reactions" is extremely oversimplified.

He cleared it by learning damn near every attack pattern over hundreds (thousands?) of attempts. His best damage dealer was actually Xiangling doing physical damage because lolCrescentPike.

Yeah, of course reactions are important, the game shoves them in your face most of the time. That doesn't mean the game can't be heavily built on more than one mechanic. Arguing that somehow dodging isn't a core gameplay mechanic just because reactions exist is like saying tanking isn't a core role in WoW because healing exists.

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Well, you can do Childe without taking any damage, it just requires a lot of knowledge of his patterns and patience.

Usually I'm not that patient so I take a lot of damage in the tradeoff, what can I say.

I don't see how you could memorize his pattern of running around to different sides of the map. Yeah I'm not that patient either I just needed to kill him for my weekly loot and was bored. But anyways my point is clearly 99% of the playerbase can't perfect dodge the fight. Look at gw2 for example. Those fuckers expect you to perfect dodge and attack even story quests to get the achievements and almost every story boss fight doesn't reset between deaths cause its so punishing. Thats a game where dodge is the main mechanic.

[Yunru]

Like I said earlier I did a Childe 3 (im only 49 so cant do 4) no heals no res solo run for fun today. Even knowing I had to watch my stamina like a hawk I was not able to dodge everything he throws at you I had to make use of shields and in the end ended up with 3 dead chars and barely beating him. You don't have enough stamina for them to expect you to dodge everything in a fight.

I might not be a good player and people probably can do the challenge better than me but my point is the game isn't designed around you being an ultra instinct dodger.

I just bruteforce him. Noelles shields up and go nuking and once shield is down, i turn on Dionas shield and go back to pew pew.
And that was max lvl boss right now possible (with AR 50). My characters were all minimum lvl 79 and a single hit from his ability took out 75-50 hp on characters, but i have so much healing in team so its not a problem.

Noelle + Klee + Fischl + Diona.

And most of my artifacts are lvl 12 (only feathers are maxed) as i dont wana lvl garbage way to much due to 10% xp loss.

[KrayZ33]

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Explain to me how free 30k xp in artifacts is useless.

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um, it's quite a lot.

It's useless because you get trash artifacts with every single run?
You said yourself that you didn't do artifacts runs yet if I understood it correctly, so it's not a suprise that you don't realize it yet.
The time where you need to farm artifact XP is prior to AR45-50.
At AR45+ it's a waste of time because for every single good artifact you want to bring to lvl 20, you find enough trash to upgrade it with.

I'm AR 50 1/2 btw.
0 gem resin refreshes except 2 when I thought I was using the consumables (if you press the +, it will consume gems, didn't expect that because all gacha games I've played so far consume the items first.
I didn't waste a single stamina though and did my dailies.
I was rerolling for one day (for a mere 2 4* roll + Noelle), so I didn't get the first 4 dailies.

936 chests Liyue + 435 or so in Mondstat
Anyone at 51+ either consumed all hardened resin or did refreshes.

KrayZ33 was being a dick and claiming I must be using level 1 characters. It was never about being one shot or using lvl one chars. I was trying to explain to him how I could see how an average player could struggle in the world so I used 70-80 chars with lvl 11ish artifacts to test how many hits it would take to kill them.

ya... the "average-player" at AR50

He is pay to win.
The cost of a artifacts from 16-20 is just to much. Even me who farms those every day still doesnt have many 20+ artifacts. Heck i am stuck on 4/8 book thing still.
And you cant concentrate on just 4 characters either as you will end up lacking some elements for abyss. Lvl 90 character that cant remove fire shield is usless.

Pretty sure your AR is higher than mine buddy :O
At least you went AR50 before me. So who of us is the one refreshing stamina?
Didn't you just recently get the 800 chest achievement or something?
My "p2w" is banner rolls, but I only got 2 5* characters both at C0. So where is my money going if I'm p2w?
Oh and the monthly thing + BP

Not sure what you did with your resin, but certainly not the right thing if you struggle with world content.
If you don't have enough Artifact XP for at least 10ish++ 5* lvl20 artifacts or at least enough o equip 8 characters with +16 stuff at AR50, you are doing it wrong.





I don't own a single 3* 2* or 1* artifact at the moment btw.
So I have roughly 1 million artifact XP lying around in trash 4* and 5*.
You'd have to farm 2357 1* artifacts for that.
Good luck and have fun with that.
By the time I find the next 5* I want to upgrade, I will have another million in 4* and 5* alone.

[qwerty123456]

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It's useless because you get trash artifacts with every single run?
The time where you need to farm artifact XP is prior to AR45-50.

I'm AR 50 1/2 btw.
0 resin refreshes.
I didn't waste a single stamina though and did my dailies.

1400 or so chests Liyue + 900 or so in Mondstat
Anyone at 51+ either consumed all hardened resin or did refreshes.



ya... the "average-player" at AR50



Pretty sure your AR is higher than mine buddy :O
At least you went AR50 before me.

Not sure what you did with your resin, but certainly not the right thing.
If you don't have at least 10ish++ 5* lvl20 artifacts, you are doing it wrong.

Idk why your so hung up on AR 50. I'm 49 and tested on world 6. Nothing was said about world level just that shit can actually dmg you. And you literally gain Adventure rank with everything you do so a daily average player could easily be 40+.

[Yunru]

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It's useless because you get trash artifacts with every single run?
The time where you need to farm artifact XP is prior to AR45-50.

I'm AR 50 1/2 btw.
0 resin refreshes.
I didn't waste a single stamina though and did my dailies.

1400 or so chests Liyue + 900 or so in Mondstat
Anyone at 51+ either consumed all hardened resin or did refreshes.



ya... the "average-player" at AR50



Pretty sure your AR is higher than mine buddy :O
At least you went AR50 before me.

Not sure what you did with your resin, but certainly not the right thing.
If you don't have at least 10ish++ 5* lvl20 artifacts, you are doing it wrong.

I pretty much started playing on day 3 when it came out and i used all the moons so yeah.....
However i did *waste* reshin on recent event (araund 450 primogems), but i got it for free from event anyway.
I did open up pretty much 99.9999% of chests and i farmed that rare mob that gives adventure xp for achivment so it adds up.

Well i did went with a save route and Character book talents (----- weapon materials (---- weapon lvl(--- ascension (--- character lvl (---- artifacts

Chungus 79 (lvl 80 weapon), Fischl 79 (lvl 80 weapon), Jean 79 (lvl 80 weapon), Klee lvl 79 (lvl 80 legendary), Noelle lvl 80 ascended (lvl 80 legendary weapon), MC lvl 80 ascended (lvl 80 weapon), Xiangling lvl 79 (weapon lvl 70 as i plan to try the new one), Childe lvl 70 -- gona ascend tommorow (lvl 80 weapon) and Diona lvl 79 (lvl 80 weapon).

Rest of chars are lvl 20 for free stuff :P
All other lvled characters have all the max lvl on talent books before boss drops. Fischl will however soon hit everything lvled to current lvl due to getting to many of those drops (Spirit Locket of Boreas). My poor Klee barely got 1 Ring of Boreas.

[blackpink]

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It's useless because you get trash artifacts with every single run?

huh? this literally has nothing to do with the daily artifact route, which I was responding to. You get 30k xp about everyday. That's not useless.