Genshin Impact

[KrayZ33]

Ganyu is weird.

It's almost like she breaks the game in some fights. Things die before even seeing you, you can blow up bosses without even using a Q or E, almost nothing in the game can touch you if you don't want them to.

She seriously feels like what you'd get if you had some minor cheat codes. Not that the game was somehow heavily challenging other characters before, but she's just on another level in many fights.

On the other hand, charged bow shots are just...you know...kinda sleep-inducing sometimes.

Yeah I agree, but she is really fun when she uses her Q and E.
So, she is basically a aimed-shot archer that goes into "melee"... which is what I meant when I said that this is my only complaint about her.
You kinda want to be at range but also in melee range all the time.
Especially if you own an Amos Bow - then you want to be at range even more, but both E and Q are more or less melee support skills.

If you team her with Bennett for example, you want to stand inside Bennetts ult, but you want to throw her Q a bit further away from you, since you are freezing/melting everything at range. So that doesn't work 100% either.
If she were weaker, I'd use her as a full support character due to that super amazing E and Q, but since her Charged Attacks are so powerful, it feels wrong.

[Belize]

Hmmm, I'm currently using Viridescent Hunt on Ganyu, but I'm starting to wonder if I should use Prototype Whatever instead.

I'm only critting for like... 11K...

[BeepBoo]

HEY look at that... exactly what I was complaining about is the most likely thing to happen... actually happened. Fucking power creep man. I love coco goat, but she's too strong.

[Lindon]

Hmmm, I'm currently using Viridescent Hunt on Ganyu, but I'm starting to wonder if I should use Prototype Whatever instead.

I'm only critting for like... 11K...

Prototype is her best 4* weapon. The Viridescent hunt however is not far behind in damage, assuming you have fairly good artifacts. If you have bad artifacts that are lacking crit, then the gap between the two will widen.

HEY look at that... exactly what I was complaining about is the most likely thing to happen... actually happened. Fucking power creep man. I love coco goat, but she's too strong.

picture

You do know that that picture is complete hogwash?

[KrayZ33]

Im having trouble getting 6 stars on spiral dungeon 7, just down to not being able to down the enemies which are the same type as my dps characters before their shields go up. I think i need to be leveling up/farming accessories a bit more

You are supposed to take a counter-element with you, even if the unit is lvl 1.

[Dakhath]

Never thought I'd see someone post patchwork sims for Genshin but here we are. That chart is trash, it assumes 100 percent weak point damage in a perfect environment. Ganyu is strong, but saying she is more powerful at C0 than Diluc is at C6 makes anyone who posts this lose all credibility.

[Tang0]

Never thought I'd see someone post patchwork sims for Genshin but here we are. That chart is trash, it assumes 100 percent weak point damage in a perfect environment. Ganyu is strong, but saying she is more powerful at C0 than Diluc is at C6 makes anyone who posts this lose all credibility.

That was the deal breaker for you? In a game with no way to even measure dps where one character is never used by itself anyway?

[Dakhath]

That was the deal breaker for you? In a game with no way to even measure dps where one character is never used by itself anyway?

You could definitely use one character by itself if you didn't care about the final numbers.

[Yunru]

Talents are so damn expensive:

[KrayZ33]

the next 2 cost 1,15m in total.

But Mora is quite easy to get without any Resin now thanks to bounties and deliveries.

I spent all my primos and most of my shop currency for this banner btw.
After seeing that I don't have any room for additional characters after getting Mona. I wanted to C5 Xingqiu (so I can buy C6 in the shop once he appears again) and C1 Ganyu since that's a 15% dmg buff basically most of the time..

I got ~20 pulls left. I believe Ayaka is still far away and I have time to aquire some primos as F2P until then.
If there is some kind of 4* spear user in the future, I might pull on that unit before that happens though.

[BeepBoo]

You do know that that picture is complete hogwash?

Based on? I can't read anything on it but chinese are normally pretty good at data crunching in games (source: they constantly top world charts for wow), so if the chinese server is up in arms about something I assume there is some weight behind it (even if this chart isn't perfect).

Never thought I'd see someone post patchwork sims for Genshin but here we are. That chart is trash, it assumes 100 percent weak point damage in a perfect environment. Ganyu is strong, but saying she is more powerful at C0 than Diluc is at C6 makes anyone who posts this lose all credibility.

Where are you getting c0 vs c6? Besides that, even if the graph has a 100% margin of error on Ganyu's grey part (whatever that is) she still ends up ahead by a fair margin. I'm open to more concrete data in a language I can read, though.

That was the deal breaker for you? In a game with no way to even measure dps where one character is never used by itself anyway?

It's pretty easy to theorycraft basic DPS in a vacuum. Start adding in a lot of external factors and you start losing that ease. You could probably easily add in melt, though.

And before someone else says it: "Hurr durr no idea why you care about imba in a solo RPG!"
Fuck that noise. You should always care about balance in any game. I do, because I want what I like the best to be competitive with other things and I feel bad using garbage (yes, even in a solo game, even if it's what I love). Devs should know how to balance properly so it isn't an issue. Giving them a free pass, especially when the game does have coop where effectiveness matters (even though it's optional), especially when what people are going to toss money at is power... is a bad choice.

[Exxord]

Where are you getting c0 vs c6?

C0 is the grey bar, colours are constellations.

[KrayZ33]

Based on? I can't read anything on it but chinese are normally pretty good at data crunching in games (source: they constantly top world charts for wow), so if the chinese server is up in arms about something I assume there is some weight behind it (even if this chart isn't perfect).

Where are you getting c0 vs c6? Besides that, even if the graph has a 100% margin of error on Ganyu's grey part (whatever that is) she still ends up ahead by a fair margin. I'm open to more concrete data in a language I can read, though.

It's pretty easy to theorycraft basic DPS in a vacuum. Start adding in a lot of external factors and you start losing that ease. You could probably easily add in melt, though.

And before someone else says it: "Hurr durr no idea why you care about imba in a solo RPG!"
Fuck that noise. You should always care about balance in any game. I do, because I want what I like the best to be competitive with other things and I feel bad using garbage (yes, even in a solo game, even if it's what I love). Devs should know how to balance properly so it isn't an issue. Giving them a free pass, especially when the game does have coop where effectiveness matters (even though it's optional), especially when what people are going to toss money at is power... is a bad choice.

That chart is probably Ganyu Ultimate (with 100% uptime) + constant arrow spamming + E always hitting twice
Theoretical DPS means little when it's practically impossible to achieve.

Ganyu DPS is huge, but not "twice as much as diluc"-huge - which is what you are looking at.
And you wouldn't believe how much damage Diluc actually deals with C6 and Ganyu is still 20% ahead at C0 according to that chart.

Unless it's AoE with like 3-4 targets. I'm not seeing it.

[BeepBoo]

Theoretical DPS means little when it's practically impossible to achieve.

Ganyu DPS is huge, but not "twice as much as diluc huge" - which is what you are looking at,

Agreed on both parts, but I still feel like even if the margin of error is high on her theory crafting it's still likely she's top tier DPS right now. Just goes to show that mihoyo will absolutely engage in the typical design pattern of powercreep, which I absolutely do not want.

[Dakhath]

Well powercreep is going to happen in any game like this, so I don't think its something that can be avoided. The next few heroes seem to be high risk/high reward characters assuming Xiao and Hu Tao is coming up, though it looks like the next set of banners will be Xiao and Zhong Li again.

[BeepBoo]

Well powercreep is going to happen in any game like this, so I don't think its something that can be avoided.

I have a handfull of examples where powercreep wasn't a thing, and one of them was even a gacha. The best top tier character in that game is an OG character from initial release. That's what I want here, because clearly it IS something that can be avoided.

[KrayZ33]

Agreed on both parts, but I still feel like even if the margin of error is high on her theory crafting it's still likely she's top tier DPS right now. Just goes to show that mihoyo will absolutely engage in the typical design pattern of powercreep, which I absolutely do not want.

Maybe, difficult to say, saying they go into powercreep when Childe+Zhongli were mostly "meh, pretty okay I guess" is weird though (even in this chart, they are lower-mid tier).
So where is that comming from?
And for the sake of making reasonable assumptions I'd say you should take a look at Diluc C4 + C6, and then look at the modifiers of his E and Autoattack chain.
And then look at Ganyu C0 and Diluc C6 DPS chart.

However, a new top DPS will come at some point in time. But that doesn't make the other top DPS prior to them 50% weaker than the new one, which is what this chart is making Diluc look like, who himself is probably already ahead of everyone else before Ganyu came out by quite a margin and this chart is basically saying that Xinyan is as good as Diluc.
I'm not seeing it.

Gotta admit, I don't own Xinyan (only lvl 1 C0)... but just how? Her skillset doesn't look *that* impressive to me.
Her ultimate probably hits for 100k or something against electro Cincin-mages, but that's pretty much it from what I can tell. The rest is relatively weak.

[Dakhath]

I have a handfull of examples where powercreep wasn't a thing, and one of them was even a gacha. The best top tier character in that game is an OG character from initial release. That's what I want here, because clearly it IS something that can be avoided.

Why would Mihoyo want to avoid it though? It's more money for them and let's not pretend that there is anything more important than the bottom line. The whales will continue to whale even if F2P players get fed up.

[BeepBoo]

Why would Mihoyo want to avoid it though? It's more money for them and let's not pretend that there is anything more important than the bottom line. The whales will continue to whale even if F2P players get fed up.

That's absolutely not true, though. Whales that drop $1000 on a c6 version of their favorite char only to have that char invalidated are often the fastest to leave a game. It's a balancing act and if mihoyo thinks there will be a constant churn of new whales into the game, they're day-dreaming.

[Dakhath]

That's absolutely not true, though. Whales that drop $1000 on a c6 version of their favorite char only to have that char invalidated are often the fastest to leave a game. It's a balancing act and if mihoyo thinks there will be a constant churn of new whales into the game, they're day-dreaming.

You're making it sound like those characters are wiped up in the very next banner. Despite the sim that you linked and by your own words couldn't make heads or tails out of it. Diluc is still king of the hill, Ganyu fills a niche. She fills it very well, but she's nowhere near the top dps in the game. But lets pretend that she is for a moment, what banner did she replace? Nobody. The people that came before filled niches as well, but not to point that the people who will never be a banner mainliner will. powercreep suggests that someone that came before was replaced. Who did Ganyu replace out of the monthly banners?

We can agree to disagree on if it's coming for not, neither one of us can say for certain, but it's a bit early to pull the pitchforks out just yet.