The amount of complaining on is starting to get quite silly.

[Tesshin20]

I know if I get any response to this it will most likely be a lot of backfire because I am basically attacking a portion of the community, however this has starting to get very frustrating. I have been thinking a lot on this subject lately and I first thought it would come nothing good out of adressing it, but increasingly I feel the need to push back against this sillyness. I love this game so much and I would love to come on here to talk about awesome things, but I find myself very distracted by negativity which doesn't hold any water, most of the time.

So what am I really talking about? Well first of I need to mention that have high-functioning autism and that is somewhat relevant because I despise people as a collective (not in their individual components of course, I love spending time with certain people). Watching people from a distance behaving in groups is very interesting to me and something that always worries me. People have a tendency to rally behind negativity, not just in gaming but in general. Thats why we have riots and people march. Though some marches have good intentions and outcomes.

There is also this concept of content creators and the fact that negativity and controversy attract more attention. This feeds into this feedback loop which is very addicting to content creators. This is a huge factor of what is driving this negativity and the complaining and its speaks against its validity. Also, coming with negativity or critisism in general, not just regarding to World of Warcraft, have a tendency to make you appear as a more intelligent and sophisticated person. If you are complaining about something, you show that you have put effort into things, analyzed and made up your intelligent conclusion. Though this is hardly the case. On the other hand, if you are positive about something, you are just this somewhat ignorant gullable person who accepts anything at face value and probably is very forgiving and naive. I would say that is most often not the case at all.

So back to my autism thingy and how I don't like people in groups. When I see people even in a minority behave in a certain way I have a tendency to go the opposite direction and wonder why they are behaving in such a way. What is the reason behind it.

Evaluating the common complaints recently I find that 90% of the time they have no real proper reasoned arguments behind them and frankly if I might be so bold, say that they seem coming from posters that haven't made up their own arguments, but following a script. The sentences are formulated the same way and if there are more arguments behind it, it sounds equally the same. Now, that itself doesn't make an argument wrong. People could be posting from a script like mindless bots and come with accurate information. This just doesn't seem to be the case about issues related to recent issues people discuss.

Now, I know its provoking for me to reduce most opinions down to people just parroting others statements or like posting from a script, however that is how it appears to me and I am still open to a nuanced discussion around critisism from people who have put a lot of thought into their own arguments. However that is not what I see most of the time, though it happens from time to time.

Also I can watch a youtube or streamer with a lot of followers, and lo and behold, the next day I see people write exactly the same complaint, word for word in comment section on youtube and even here. I even saw many comments yesterday on Youtube to a specific video adressing class balance and people were writing "Oh I was so hyped for Shadowlands, but after watching this, I can't play this expansion after all" People will ACTUALLY accept a youtubers subjective opinion on something as gospel instead of trying the game for themselves.

I am going to adress the most recent complaint, but there are many of them like "BFA was garbage", "Covenants will fail". I would say both these statements are exaggurated and false. And the reality is far more nuanced. So I will only adress the most recent one for now.

The newest thing to complain about now is what has been refered to as "borrowed power". This has always existed, though at a lesser extent. We used to borrow legendaries and set bonuses from tier sets, leaving them behind as we went into new content. The argument is that Blizzard should stop making these systems and move them into talents and abilities and even spend more time working on balance.

These systems are a solution to a problem which was rightly complained about. Introducing new talents and abilities over several expansions gave us so many abilities that Blizzard decided to prune them. And we know how that was recieved. Making new abilities based on the theme of the expansion is a way to solve this issue. When it comes to balance then I think according to looking at warcraftlogs, the game has never been more balanced. But people are so obsessed with being optimal in every situation and never being at an disadvantage that even the 3% difference is unbearable to some people.

Another argument is that Blizzard should keep the systems going into new expansions. If that was a good idea then in Shadowlands we would spend 90% of our time in our garrisons, with legendary ring from MoP, having artifact weapons with 2000 Concordance of Legionfall, Azerite Armor with 6 rings, 20 legendary essences, 8 corruption effects, legendary cloak, covenant abilities, souldbinds, crafted legendaries having 90 different passive effects and procs going of all the time and you become this death machine with 140% haste all the time.

I am exaggurating a bit, but you have to see that this is not a good solution. Borrowed power is the best annoying solution compared to the alternatives.

Also I feel more and more sympathy for the developers of the game. They spend 10 hours a day or so, underpaid under bad conditions working on systems they now they must change in the future anyway because feedback from the usual suspects dictates so, just to come home and trying to connect with the community and they read posts that they should be fired and don't care about the game. It's a miracle we even have a game to log into at this point.

I will stop there for now and apologize this was a bit long. I have a lot more to say about this and since I have basically offended half of the people that post here, I guess I will have the opportunity to adress more issues if this is turning out something people are willing to discuss.

[Creedo]

The community is so toxic and its hard to read any posts these days. The developers and owners of a piece of content change something (which is their main role) and people freak out like the world is ending. This is a fake graphical world that people start crying about. I like my streamers, but they cry too and its so annoying. If they were crying over a new law, something inhumane, or discriminatory then I would be behind it. However, this game has no actual bearing on real life, so they amount of crying is out of control.

They game isn't even out of beta and people go "they nerfed X ability by 1%, class is dead, don't play, and unsub this game now" and people spread this. Let the game come out, then we can rally as a community and get changes made. The people who complain are not even at the top 10% of players, so in theory, their class is highly playable and will "Out dps" or "out heal" the normal community of players if that individual is actually good. I have played numerous characters during expansions where it was deemed unplayable and did fine. Out of control and sad to continue reading these comments everywhere.

[LordVargK]

I am exaggurating a bit, but you have to see that this is not a good solution. Borrowed power is the best annoying solution compared to the alternatives.

That's what is called an opinion. And you did not even deliver a proper reasoning, you just reasoned against ONE alternative (there is not just black and white here).
Not having borrowed power worked for 6/9 of WoW's lifetime (measured in patches and SL is included). So to say borrowed power (in the Legion sense) is the best solution is HIGHLY subjective, not really statistically founded and not properly reasoned by you.

Also having systems to build on has been positive. Mythic + is probably the most successful system ever and it is build on dungeons, a system form the beginning of WoW.
Same could have been done for Garrisons. They would have been changed slightly of course, since they had some flaws. But the complaint here is, that Blizzard often abandones systems instead of fixing them, even if they have the potential to be excellent.
Garrisons could have been made guild wide, fixing the "alone" problem. Island Expeditions could have been made around exploration, triggering different scenario options to progress. Warfronts could have been made in an Epic Battleground style, where PvP players fight at the front while PvE players gather ressources and build the base to support PvP players.

Just because you lack creativity and are unable to understand different opinions (since you don't like other groups of people) does not mean that your opinion is right. High functioning autist or not (don't really see why thats important tbh...).

[Mackwiss]

I know if I get any response to this it will most likely be a lot of backfire because I am basically attacking a portion of the community, however this has starting to get very frustrating. I have been thinking a lot on this subject lately and I first thought it would come nothing good out of adressing it, but increasingly I feel the need to push back against this sillyness. I love this game so much and I would love to come on here to talk about awesome things, but I find myself very distracted by negativity which doesn't hold any water, most of the time.

So what am I really talking about? Well first of I need to mention that have high-functioning autism and that is somewhat relevant because I despise people as a collective (not in their individual components of course, I love spending time with certain people). Watching people from a distance behaving in groups is very interesting to me and something that always worries me. People have a tendency to rally behind negativity, not just in gaming but in general. Thats why we have riots and people march. Though some marches have good intentions and outcomes.

There is also this concept of content creators and the fact that negativity and controversy attract more attention. This feeds into this feedback loop which is very addicting to content creators. This is a huge factor of what is driving this negativity and the complaining and its speaks against its validity. Also, coming with negativity or critisism in general, not just regarding to World of Warcraft, have a tendency to make you appear as a more intelligent and sophisticated person. If you are complaining about something, you show that you have put effort into things, analyzed and made up your intelligent conclusion. Though this is hardly the case. On the other hand, if you are positive about something, you are just this somewhat ignorant gullable person who accepts anything at face value and probably is very forgiving and naive. I would say that is most often not the case at all.

So back to my autism thingy and how I don't like people in groups. When I see people even in a minority behave in a certain way I have a tendency to go the opposite direction and wonder why they are behaving in such a way. What is the reason behind it.

Evaluating the common complaints recently I find that 90% of the time they have no real proper reasoned arguments behind them and frankly if I might be so bold, say that they seem coming from posters that haven't made up their own arguments, but following a script. The sentences are formulated the same way and if there are more arguments behind it, it sounds equally the same. Now, that itself doesn't make an argument wrong. People could be posting from a script like mindless bots and come with accurate information. This just doesn't seem to be the case about issues related to recent issues people discuss.

Now, I know its provoking for me to reduce most opinions down to people just parroting others statements or like posting from a script, however that is how it appears to me and I am still open to a nuanced discussion around critisism from people who have put a lot of thought into their own arguments. However that is not what I see most of the time, though it happens from time to time.

Also I can watch a youtube or streamer with a lot of followers, and lo and behold, the next day I see people write exactly the same complaint, word for word in comment section on youtube and even here. I even saw many comments yesterday on Youtube to a specific video adressing class balance and people were writing "Oh I was so hyped for Shadowlands, but after watching this, I can't play this expansion after all" People will ACTUALLY accept a youtubers subjective opinion on something as gospel instead of trying the game for themselves.

I am going to adress the most recent complaint, but there are many of them like "BFA was garbage", "Covenants will fail". I would say both these statements are exaggurated and false. And the reality is far more nuanced. So I will only adress the most recent one for now.

The newest thing to complain about now is what has been refered to as "borrowed power". This has always existed, though at a lesser extent. We used to borrow legendaries and set bonuses from tier sets, leaving them behind as we went into new content. The argument is that Blizzard should stop making these systems and move them into talents and abilities and even spend more time working on balance.

These systems are a solution to a problem which was rightly complained about. Introducing new talents and abilities over several expansions gave us so many abilities that Blizzard decided to prune them. And we know how that was recieved. Making new abilities based on the theme of the expansion is a way to solve this issue. When it comes to balance then I think according to looking at warcraftlogs, the game has never been more balanced. But people are so obsessed with being optimal in every situation and never being at an disadvantage that even the 3% difference is unbearable to some people.

Another argument is that Blizzard should keep the systems going into new expansions. If that was a good idea then in Shadowlands we would spend 90% of our time in our garrisons, with legendary ring from MoP, having artifact weapons with 2000 Concordance of Legionfall, Azerite Armor with 6 rings, 20 legendary essences, 8 corruption effects, legendary cloak, covenant abilities, souldbinds, crafted legendaries having 90 different passive effects and procs going of all the time and you become this death machine with 140% haste all the time.

I am exaggurating a bit, but you have to see that this is not a good solution. Borrowed power is the best annoying solution compared to the alternatives.

Also I feel more and more sympathy for the developers of the game. They spend 10 hours a day or so, underpaid under bad conditions working on systems they now they must change in the future anyway because feedback from the usual suspects dictates so, just to come home and trying to connect with the community and they read posts that they should be fired and don't care about the game. It's a miracle we even have a game to log into at this point.

I will stop there for now and apologize this was a bit long. I have a lot more to say about this and since I have basically offended half of the people that post here, I guess I will have the opportunity to adress more issues if this is turning out something people are willing to discuss.

I play since 2006, just weeks after AQ was released. Could not agree more. And also I now think I might be autistic. Gonna get checked!

[Jamais]

You don't need to apologize OP.

The majority of posters on this godawful forum are bitter haters, who are probably too addicted to the game to simply move on, but they have an urge to ''drag'' other people with them. It's not enough to simply bash the game and designers, you need that validation that other people hate it as much as they do.

As for the the actual ''feedback'' on the game - WoW playerbase has historically been wrong on most issues. Behold some of the idiocies this community has kept parroting troughout the years:

Flying and WoD conspiracy (that Blizzard removed flying so they wouldn't have to work on the terrain as much),

That every potential LGBT char is ''being forced'' upon us (so you basically have no LGBT chars ingame)

General sexism: Arthas is a revered figure, but Sylvanas is an evil bich and ''feminazi propaganda'' has entered Blizz (despite those two chars having similar concepts). Kul Tiran female controversy (can't have fat females in my game, amirite), many other examples.

MAU consiparcy: even with Blizzard stating several times what MAUs are and how they are calculated, who cares about daily log in when it is the MONTHLY subscription you are paying. ALso BliZzaRD MakiNG us SUBBED - good fucking day, it is a SUB based game (with a sub cost that hasn't gone up in 15 years).

Bringing 21st century morals in a fantasy game and judging the story by it, also quoting ''morally grey'' without context (i have yet to find a place where Ion uses the term for Teldrassill event, i did find his statement in which he says generally things in WoW are morally grey).

Bashing developers about systems, without the fundamental understanding of said systems (after they fixed the lvl req for unlocking azerite traits, the system was objectively better then tier sets).

And many more. This community is largely filled with petulant manchildren, i can't imagine having a normal conversation with most posters here.

[Xilurm]

Welcome to how I felt 10 years ago everytime I saw a complaing thread. Now I've accepted it, and either join the argument or ignore it and move on.

They spend 10 hours a day or so, underpaid under bad conditions

Need a source on that. That doesn't sound right at all.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

This dude just wrote an essay complaining about people complaining.

[Mackwiss]

Just because you lack creativity and are unable to understand different opinions (since you don't like other groups of people) does not mean that your opinion is right. High functioning autist or not (don't really see why thats important tbh...).

Congrats on completely showing how much ignorance inhabits on your side:

"People with HFA have a lower verbal reasoning ability
Better visual/spatial skills (higher performance IQ) than people with Asperger syndrome
Less deviating locomotion (e.g. clumsiness) than people with Asperger syndrome
People with HFA more often have problems functioning independently
Curiosity and interest for many different things, in contrast to people with Asperger syndrome
People with Asperger syndrome are better at empathizing with another"

All points that completely destroy your last sentence. Maybe read a bit before spitting bs online next time ok? Here I'll help you out: https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisp...ioning-autism/

[Mercadi]

Perceptions are different for everybody. What you find important is not important for someone else. And vice versa. People, us included, constantly find something to gripe about. At the time when our complaining happens, our perception is that the issue is valid and important. Often times the whole complaint originated elsewhere, we paid attention, and were moved by a unifying collective sentiment, then adopted the issue as if it was our own.
It's just in our nature to invent problems (I think). And IMO, while these problems are valid in the subject's perception, fundamentally they are just hot air.

[Doffen]

I have been less and less on mmo-champion the last weeks because of what you are saying. Not mainly because of the complaints, there are certainly some valid complaints. My big issue is that some people can't tell the difference between being objective and subjective. To parrot their opinion as truth is the most stupid thing I see. And there are these few idiots that are going outside the topic just because they don't like to hear other opinions and then starts shouting about how you are wrong and they are being objectively correct. And if that doesn't work, they just scream about arguments they don't like and starts attacking the persons instead.

It's just annoying to discuss with someone who starts a tantrum when they meet someone with opinions they don't support. And if you then ignore them because of their childish behavior then they start to point out how you don't respond to them because you can't counter it. I will explain those people one thing:

If people starts ignoring you and your opinions and move on, it's not because they can't counter your argument, they are just fucking tired of your idiotic behavior. They did not lose the discussion. You did for being a complete asshat. If people could take a moment of their life and start to think that your opinion is just that; Your opinion, you might realize that other peoples opinion is worth as much as yours, and you might even think twice about their points and in the end you get a healthy discussion.

(you as in general you, just to note)

[Baneto]

So you created a thread complaining about people complaining about things, thats refreshing..

[melzas]

I'd say people who are happy with the game just play it and don't spend much time on the forums praising it.

I actually feel sorry for those nerds that spend hours upon hours on forums complaining about the game they no longer play (or worse - game they pay sub to play).

[Drusin]

I know if I get any response to this it will most likely be a lot of backfire because I am basically

Basically writing a whole book bruh

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

Its the modern day entitled asshole casual gamer. Everything that isn't to their perfection and expectation or some stuff like that, they complain and whine that the developers should change it.

Adapting or changing their playstyle? Hahaha, nope, are you crazy? its their right to play how they want yet they keep complaining.

[Tesshin20]

That's what is called an opinion. And you did not even deliver a proper reasoning, you just reasoned against ONE alternative (there is not just black and white here).
Not having borrowed power worked for 6/9 of WoW's lifetime (measured in patches and SL is included). So to say borrowed power (in the Legion sense) is the best solution is HIGHLY subjective, not really statistically founded and not properly reasoned by you.

Also having systems to build on has been positive. Mythic + is probably the most successful system ever and it is build on dungeons, a system form the beginning of WoW.
Same could have been done for Garrisons. They would have been changed slightly of course, since they had some flaws. But the complaint here is, that Blizzard often abandones systems instead of fixing them, even if they have the potential to be excellent.
Garrisons could have been made guild wide, fixing the "alone" problem. Island Expeditions could have been made around exploration, triggering different scenario options to progress. Warfronts could have been made in an Epic Battleground style, where PvP players fight at the front while PvE players gather ressources and build the base to support PvP players.

Just because you lack creativity and are unable to understand different opinions (since you don't like other groups of people) does not mean that your opinion is right. High functioning autist or not (don't really see why thats important tbh...).

Yes. Its my opinion. And I would go into more detail on this subject, but was afraid to make the post too long. So thanks for adressing this issue a second time.

I disagree with the statement "Not having borrowed power etc" because we did. Even though not as much as recently, the concept is not foreign to us and we didn't have any problems leaving behind set bonuses or being upset that abilities from set bonuses and legendaries wasn't permanent.

Borrowed power holds some merit in the sense that its the foundation of the expansion features for both BFA and Legion. Legion is considered even among the most criticial people to be a good expansion. BFA was a good expansion as well (Again another subjective opinion). You can't really point to anything that shows that borrowed power is harmful for the game in terms of subscribers or anything like that.

So my argument for borrowed power is that it serves as a vehicle to introduce new abilities and mechanics to play with in the theme of expansion and you can integrate them into the lore and the story of the expansion as well. Which they did with artifacts, azerite and covenants. You can't do the same with a new talent. This is the strength of the system. Another strength is that seems you have tied the borrowed power with the lore and events of a specific expansion, you can justify removing them for a new expanion to introduce something new without causing it to bloat into the new expansion.

Comparing a system that gives power and systems that produces content aren't comparable. The negatives of adding more systems that gives playerpower doesn't relate to a system like Mythic+. You could make the comparison even worse by bringing in allied races. You can't simply compare them.

I am fully aware of the possitiblity of my opinions not being right, thats why I want to discuss them to see if they hold any validity. I allready think they do though, but testing them against other people I find useful.

My having issues with groups of people does not make me not understand different opinions though. I also explained the relevance of being autistic and the reason for writing this point in my post as well.

- - - Updated - - -

This dude just wrote an essay complaining about people complaining.

Well if I may say so. Thats the type of complaining that actually makes sense.

[LordVargK]

Congrats on completely showing how much ignorance inhabits on your side:

"People with HFA have a lower verbal reasoning ability
Better visual/spatial skills (higher performance IQ) than people with Asperger syndrome
Less deviating locomotion (e.g. clumsiness) than people with Asperger syndrome
People with HFA more often have problems functioning independently
Curiosity and interest for many different things, in contrast to people with Asperger syndrome
People with Asperger syndrome are better at empathizing with another"

All points that completely destroy your last sentence. Maybe read a bit before spitting bs online next time ok? Here I'll help you out: https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisp...ioning-autism/

I only referenced the explanation OP gave for mentioning his autism. OP mentioned disliking people as a collective, having interest in watching (studying) people from afar and wondering why they behave the way they do. Then OP complains about people parroting opinions of streamers, youtuber, etc on the forums. Which is a valid complaint. But then OP lists some common complaints and his opinion on those issues.
Not only does OP not give any reasoning for his opinion (maybe due to his illness), OP also states his opinion as a fact (pretty inexcusable in any discussion) while also not properly understanding the other side's arguements (despite saying that he likes to think "the oppposite direction").

Now, your explanation excuses some of those things, but it still does not mean OP is right. OP is just not able to understand other opinions. And if you can't understand other opinions then creating a thread called "The amount of complaining on is starting to get quite silly" is pretty arrogant. I hopefully gave enough examples to show why OP's opinion is not the only reasonable one (like OP claims on one issue).

[Tesshin20]

So you created a thread complaining about people complaining about things, thats refreshing..

There is actually nothing wrong with doing that. You seem to imply this is ironic and therefore doesn't have its place.

- - - Updated - - -

I only referenced the explanation OP gave for mentioning his autism. OP mentioned disliking people as a collective, having interest in watching (studying) people from afar and wondering why they behave the way they do. Then OP complains about people parroting opinions of streamers, youtuber, etc on the forums. Which is a valid complaint. But then OP lists some common complaints and his opinion on those issues.
Not only does OP not give any reasoning for his opinion (maybe due to his illness), OP also states his opinion as a fact (pretty inexcusable in any discussion) while also not properly understanding the other side's arguements (despite saying that he likes to think "the oppposite direction").

Now, your explanation excuses some of those things, but it still does not mean OP is right. OP is just not able to understand other opinions. And if you can't understand other opinions then creating a thread called "The amount of complaining on is starting to get quite silly" is pretty arrogant. I hopefully gave enough examples to show why OP's opinion is not the only reasonable one (like OP claims on one issue).

Where did I state my opinions was an objective fact for everyone. If I did that, that was not my intention.

Also if I am not able to understand other peoples opinions, it might be that they haven't properly explained them.

- - - Updated - - -

Basically writing a whole book bruh

I might actually do that one day.

- - - Updated - - -

Its the modern day entitled asshole casual gamer. Everything that isn't to their perfection and expectation or some stuff like that, they complain and whine that the developers should change it.

Adapting or changing their playstyle? Hahaha, nope, are you crazy? its their right to play how they want yet they keep complaining.

I agree. I actually like being put into rough spots in the game and finding ways to work around it. Thats what I like about the Covenant system. I just don't hope it makes me bad at too many things.

[Nerovar]

Here we go again. Another thread about denigrating people who are critical of the game as either mentally ill/conspiratorial/addicts/racists/sexists etc. because it's entirely impossible that people just want the game to be better than it currently is.

I honestly don't get the point of these threads. You make it out to be as if the game's only problem is people making up problems and if they'd be quiet everything would be perfect. If you're completely happy with the game and the direction it's headed then why do you feel the need to engage in these discussions about it that are (according to you) steeped in negativity/hate/whatever only to complain about it afterwards?

Also in regards to some other points you made:

• Just because some people who are unable to properly articulate themselves parrot opinions they got from smarter people doesn't necessarily mean their positions are wrong or unjustified.
• The game's balance is certainly not at a high point. You have classes like mistweaver who have been at the bottom for like 6 consecutive raid tiers and PvP in BfA has probably been the worst in all of WoW's history with all of the weird metas (overtuned Azerite at the start of season 1, tank trinket meta, corruption oneshot meta etc.) and also incredibly low participation as a result of this.
• You equating "borrowed power" with gear/legendaries etc. is also pretty disingenuous since people obviously mean borrowed power as expansion defining features that draw away attention from class design, traditional gear progression etc. when they use the term. Borrowed power systems create a bunch of new problems with every expansion and the only real thing they've got going for them is that they mix up gameplay for a bit.
• Also keeping classes in a permanently pruned state with borrowed power sprinkled on top is hardly a reasonable response to people being dissatisfied with pruning. This is a very paradoxical argument.

[Tesshin20]

I have been less and less on mmo-champion the last weeks because of what you are saying. Not mainly because of the complaints, there are certainly some valid complaints. My big issue is that some people can't tell the difference between being objective and subjective. To parrot their opinion as truth is the most stupid thing I see. And there are these few idiots that are going outside the topic just because they don't like to hear other opinions and then starts shouting about how you are wrong and they are being objectively correct. And if that doesn't work, they just scream about arguments they don't like and starts attacking the persons instead.

It's just annoying to discuss with someone who starts a tantrum when they meet someone with opinions they don't support. And if you then ignore them because of their childish behavior then they start to point out how you don't respond to them because you can't counter it. I will explain those people one thing:

If people starts ignoring you and your opinions and move on, it's not because they can't counter your argument, they are just fucking tired of your idiotic behavior. They did not lose the discussion. You did for being a complete asshat. If people could take a moment of their life and start to think that your opinion is just that; Your opinion, you might realize that other peoples opinion is worth as much as yours, and you might even think twice about their points and in the end you get a healthy discussion.

(you as in general you, just to note)

I agree with this and its my observation as well. I have to admit I might lose it myself sometimes and get frustrated and say things like "You don't understand!", which is a mistake to get personal, and then its time to leave the discussion.

I think its good to know when to leave a discussion. Not all battles are worth fighting. Arguing over the internet is very draining I noticed.

[Doffen]

I agree with this and its my observation as well. I have to admit I might lose it myself sometimes and get frustrated and say things like "You don't understand!", which is a mistake to get personal, and then its time to leave the discussion.

I think its good to know when to leave a discussion. Not all battles are worth fighting. Arguing over the internet is very draining I noticed.

Yeah, and of course I ain't a saint myself. And I have been into dragging discussion too many times in the past, but now I see it for what it is instead. Can't be arsed getting annoyed by people who don't really want a discussion. So I leave it instead of arguing the same arguments 10 times over.

What I notice by these people, they can't leave the discussion. They always want the last word. Which is fine for me, I don't need that. But if they then continue with me not managing to argue against their opinions, then I just have to tell them. I mean, what do they want? Me to argue against their argument over and over again? There is no need to answer any argument 5 times. One time is enough. But for some reason that's not enough for everyone.

It is indeed very draining, and when we got so many more fun things to do, I rather do that. Like hyping for Shadowlands, looking forward to it. Trying to hype here on these forum just doesn't work.