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  1. #301
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Oh the usual: logging, mining, ranching, farming, industry. Its perfectly fine if people make a living doing that in other countries so we can still have all our neat stuff, but it must not be done here.
    Banana republic. The term you're looking for is banana republic.

    Economic size isn't a function of how many raw materials you have. The actual scenario is:

    - Rural states secede.
    - Their shitty economies force them to accept unfavorable deals for extraction of their raw materials without the added benefit of a federal tax structure to support themselves.
    - Urban states can continue to maintain this state of affairs threatening to purchase alternatives elsewhere because that's how capitalism works.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  2. #302
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Restating "it took place over a long time" in a different way doesn't make your point less wrong, lol.

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    Sure. We can just buy it from the rural countries at cut rate prices since they have no negotiating power by virtue of their nonexistent economies.

    You're literally using Brexit arguments right here.
    Sure, the rural areas can just charge higher prices because there will be no economical alternative. How valuable do you think water is to LA county?
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
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  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by seashell86 View Post
    Right, but here's the problem with your horrible point.

    It didn't work. The South continued to be swept by Democrats periodically throughout the decades in various elections.

    If it was a "strategy" then it was a horrible one.

    I mean I can understand your incredible determination to be correct since the entire Democratic religion depends on being the "good guys" in spite of all American history.
    Your post means nothing as I proved the Southern Strategy is real and (successfully) happened and you failed to provide evidence that it failed.
    Expansion leak claiming Legion is the last expansion
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  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by seashell86 View Post
    Ah, so this is the part where deranged TDS victims deny all possible accomplishments.

    Got it.

    I suppose Michael Lomax is just a big old misinformed dummy for thanking Donald Trump. He should totally have been thanking CONGRESS.

    Lol, give me a break. Too funny.

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    I'm merely pointing out that the award was given within the past 40 years. So, either African American Speaker Manifest Jesse Jackson is wrong or you're wrong. It's one or the other.

    Or, of course, he suddenly just manifested himself as a racist like Super Saiyan Goku out of nowhere.
    He was sued TWICE for not renting to blacks by the Racist dickbag Nixon's DoJ in 73.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by seashell86 View Post
    Ah, so this is the part where deranged TDS victims deny all possible accomplishments.

    Got it.

    I suppose Michael Lomax is just a big old misinformed dummy for thanking Donald Trump. He should totally have been thanking CONGRESS.

    Lol, give me a break. Too funny.
    If you're going the appeal to authority route then explain away the NAACP's endorsement of Robert Byrd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Sure, the rural areas can just charge higher prices because there will be no economical alternative. How valuable do you think water is to LA county?
    Valuable enough that if you start charging too much, desalination starts looking like a cheaper option, and then your bargaining chip vanishes entirely.

    Surely there must be hundreds of golden eggs inside the goose, all you need do is cut the belly open.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  6. #306
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Banana republic. The term you're looking for is banana republic.

    Economic size isn't a function of how many raw materials you have. The actual scenario is:

    - Rural states secede.
    - Their shitty economies force them to accept unfavorable deals for extraction of their raw materials without the added benefit of a federal tax structure to support themselves.
    - Urban states can continue to maintain this state of affairs threatening to purchase alternatives elsewhere because that's how capitalism works.
    Rural states cut off the water to all urban areas, charge massive transportation taxes on product even passing through. Rural states understand they can sell to other buyers as well, as they already do.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by seashell86 View Post
    The purpose of the electoral college is to FORCE campaigns to be national and not just cloistered behind the safe and comfy walls of densely populated cities.
    But national doesn't have anything to do with letting cornfields decide elections instead of people. The founders very specifically wanted elections to be decided by majority will - that was the whole point of the 12th amendment. They wanted minority party losers to have veto power, but they didn't want them to end up in any chamber of power. When every election after Washington required a shady backroom deal to keep the minority from getting too much power, the Jeffersonians said "fuck it" and threw in the 12th. And then 30 years later, Andrew Jackson said "lol" and got the states to switch from ranked choice, proportional allotments, and majority wins to plurality winner-take-all wins, and fucked it all up.

    Even the Senate would probably have resulted in a 13th amendment if it was in the state then that it is today. The founders hated the Senate. Madison said, "Dude, this compromise is so stupid that I don't even want to talk about it" in Federalist 22. But had the minority party been able to hold the Senate without a massive struggle, the Jeffersonians would have fixed that, too.

    All of this talk about balance is mostly a modern addition by Republicans trying to explain why they should get to have power when everyone but the loonies hates them.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by seashell86 View Post
    Ah, so this is the part where deranged TDS victims deny all possible accomplishments.
    The real TDS victims are those who drool over every word and action of Trump no matter how mediocre, cotradictory, or negatively impactful they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golds
    NO it will be me laughing at how you doubted this....
    Quote Originally Posted by golds
    I was right

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Your post means nothing as I proved the Southern Strategy is real and (successfully) happened and you failed to provide evidence that it failed.
    Actually, posting from Wikipedia which is littered with misinformation doesn't make you right.

    Carter sweeping in the mid 70s and Clinton sweeping in the early 90s proves my point. And, that's of course, among a myriad of other victories.

    So, like I said, never happened.

    Or, if it did, it was horrible in which case efficacy should be evaluated.

    And again, the easier and more obvious answer is that Democrats were racist and still are.

    And, most obviously, they never switched because Republicans never became Democrats since, you know, the Democrats were the historical "bad guys."

    I love how that common sensical point just never ceases to garner any attention at all. Like, how many historical sports figures do you know that were once champions that are now cited as having been members of the losing team?

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Rural states cut off the water to all urban areas
    You don't have to get embarrassed just because you forgot desalination existed for a second there.

    charge massive transportation taxes on product even passing through
    Which they'll enforce with...what money, exactly?

    Rural states understand they can sell to other buyers as well, as they already do.
    Yes, but this would not actually make them any richer as every banana and cocoa republic from here to Timor-Leste proves.

    "If you wont let us destroy the natural environment then we'll just secede and become cotton/lumber republics" isn't really a compelling threat. Lol.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    But national doesn't have anything to do with letting cornfields decide elections instead of people. The founders very specifically wanted elections to be decided by majority will - that was the whole point of the 12th amendment. They wanted minority party losers to have veto power, but they didn't want them to end up in any chamber of power. When every election after Washington required a shady backroom deal to keep the minority from getting too much power, the Jeffersonians said "fuck it" and threw in the 12th. And then 30 years later, Andrew Jackson said "lol" and got the states to switch from ranked choice, proportional allotments, and majority wins to plurality winner-take-all wins, and fucked it all up.

    Even the Senate would probably have resulted in a 13th amendment if it was in the state then that it is today. The founders hated the Senate. Madison said, "Dude, this compromise is so stupid that I don't even want to talk about it" in Federalist 22. But had the minority party been able to hold the Senate without a massive struggle, the Jeffersonians would have fixed that, too.

    All of this talk about balance is mostly a modern addition by Republicans trying to explain why they should get to have power when everyone but the loonies hates them.
    I mean I'm honestly pretty fair. If the Democrats lost the popular vote and won the electoral college, I seriously would not give a shit.

    I think we seem to forget that people who live together tend to think alike. While I'm all for voices being heard, weighting is the better of a pretty difficult to balance grab bag of solutions.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by seashell86 View Post
    And again, the easier and more obvious answer is that Democrats were racist and still are.
    Which requires a whole lot more evidence than "the Southern Strategy existed", so in the absence of that I'll trust in Occam and say you're wrong. Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seashell86 View Post
    While I'm all for voices being heard, weighting is the better of a pretty difficult to balance grab bag of solutions.
    The only "difficulty" in balancing is that democracy makes it harder for y'all to enact certain policies by fiat.

    You can just say you don't like democracy.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    The real TDS victims are those who drool over every word and action of Trump no matter how mediocre, cotradictory, or negatively impactful they are.
    I think Trump is foul mouthed, unpresidential president.

    I don't drool over anything he says. I like that he is actually trying to do things though.

    I wish he wouldn't be such an abrasive fuck head at times. I would probably have voted for Tulsi Gabbard if given the choice and I'm fairly libertarian.

    That being said, I cannot in good faith vote for Biden literally ever. He has Alzheimer's and it's so obvious and sad. I know Democrats hate Trump, and I can understand many of the reasons why, but voting in a man in Biden's mental state is not a good plan.

    So, let's not try to assume too much.

  14. #314
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Oh, also... I feel this needs iterating because a lot of people seem to get this confused.

    Being an abolitionist does not make you not a racist. It was not true in 1863, it remains untrue now.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Which requires a whole lot more evidence than "the Southern Strategy existed", so in the absence of that I'll trust in Occam and say you're wrong. Lol.

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    The only "difficulty" in balancing is that democracy makes it harder for y'all to enact certain policies by fiat.

    You can just say you don't like democracy.
    I love democracy but, as with everything in life, too much of anything is bad.

    Balance is ideal. I'm sorry if that loses elections for the left but it is what it is.

    It's not like both parties don't play by the same rules.

    Just spend some time in the rural states. It'll be fine.

    If Democrats have a message that resonates with Americans, it will resonate soundly in all states.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by seashell86 View Post
    He has Alzheimer's and it's so obvious and sad.
    Citation needed.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Oh, also... I feel this needs iterating because a lot of people seem to get this confused.

    Being an abolitionist does not make you not a racist. It was not true in 1863, it remains untrue now.
    True, because everyone is racist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Citation needed.
    How about a 20 minute video of him making no sense and leaving everyone bewildered?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzBdBj5QWyY

    But I suppose come Tuesday, you'll be feeling less inclined to require a citation.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by seashell86 View Post
    If Democrats have a message that resonates with Americans, it will resonate soundly in all states.
    "Too much democracy is bad" contradicts "resonating with Americans".

    Again, this is just a tell for the fact you don't view Democrats as Americans but as an unfortunate second class of people that are resident in the US.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by seashell86 View Post
    I think Trump is foul mouthed, unpresidential president.

    I don't drool over anything he says. I like that he is actually trying to do things though.

    I wish he wouldn't be such an abrasive fuck head at times. I would probably have voted for Tulsi Gabbard if given the choice and I'm fairly libertarian.

    That being said, I cannot in good faith vote for Biden literally ever. He has Alzheimer's and it's so obvious and sad. I know Democrats hate Trump, and I can understand many of the reasons why, but voting in a man in Biden's mental state is not a good plan.

    So, let's not try to assume too much.
    Says the guy defending Trump? I mean he literally thinks there were airports during the Revolutionary fucking War of all things. That is over 100 years before the first airplane LOL.

  20. #320
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    If you're going the appeal to authority route then explain away the NAACP's endorsement of Robert Byrd.

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    Valuable enough that if you start charging too much, desalination starts looking like a cheaper option, and then your bargaining chip vanishes entirely.

    Surely there must be hundreds of golden eggs inside the goose, all you need do is cut the belly open.
    Desalination requires power, a lot of it. Oh hey, most power is either generated in rural areas, is transported through rural areas, or uses resources from rural areas.

    See, the thing is, each side has the ability to inflict serious damage to the other. The more hostile the sides get, the more likely that happens. Your solution is to force everyone to adhere to your view, mine is to divide into smaller groups that agree with each other as peacefully as possible.

    I do like how you think the urban city-states should exploit the rural people because they are more powerful, but the rural folk shouldn't fear that they would do so under urban control.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

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