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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I never really understood how a Catholic would ever end up being a Republican in the US.

    While Conservative Catholics do align themselves with the whole anti-abortion and gay bashing brigade (let's be honest here...if religious people of all denominations can agree on something, that's hating the gays and the importance of making women pop out babies) every single other thing the GOP stands for is fundamentally opposed to pretty much every social teaching of the Catholic church.

    The whole "personal responsibility&bootstraps" bullshit is derived from Protestant theology.

    I can't fathom the mental gymnastics that a practicing devout Catholic would need to engage in to reconcile Republican social policy with Catholic Social teaching.

    There are some strange cultish groups within the Catholic Church, but even those mostly tend to adhere to the core of Catholic Social teaching. A Catholic Republican is an oxymoron.
    There's a reason the GOP is laser-focused on culture war issues instead of substantive policy.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  2. #542
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    The whole "personal responsibility&bootstraps" bullshit is derived from Protestant theology.

    I can't fathom the mental gymnastics that a practicing devout Catholic would need to engage in to reconcile Republican social policy with Catholic Social teaching.
    Cafeteria Catholics who take a few tidbits, then pile their plates a foot high from white evangelicalism.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    There's a reason the GOP is laser-focused on culture war issues instead of substantive policy.
    Dude, you havent seen Conservative Catholics here. They still think they are landowners and we're their serfs.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  4. #544
    Pit Lord smityx's Avatar
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    ACB's SC robe. Will she be able to render a decision without consulting her husband first?


  5. #545
    Not being funny, but I would.

  6. #546
    The Lightbringer downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Cafeteria Catholics who take a few tidbits, then pile their plates a foot high from white evangelicalism.
    It's mostly this but there are also plenty of ultra-conservative Catholics that make evangelicals look liberal. You can usually sort them out by watching how much foam builds up in their mouth when you bring up the Jesuits and Pope Francis.
    There is a limit to the success of conservative populism and the exploitation of "little guy" or "silent majority" rhetoric, and it is very often reached because of the emaciated, corrupted personalities of the demagogues themselves.
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  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    It's mostly this but there are also plenty of ultra-conservative Catholics that make evangelicals look liberal. You can usually sort them out by watching how much foam builds up in their mouth when you bring up the Jesuits and Pope Francis.
    I would love to see Pope Francis endorse Joe Biden, just to antagonise the hell out of all the Catholics around.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I would love to see Pope Francis endorse Joe Biden, just to antagonise the hell out of all the Catholics around.
    The issue is a bit more complicated. The Church can't directly endorse a politician without risking major legal and even diplomatic fallout.

    What Francis could do to significantly influence the direction the Church is taking in the US is to literally gut the US Bishops Conference. The Catholic Church in the US has always been given an unusual degree of autonomy to avoid the impression of Vatican meddling in US affairs.

    But Francis could simply shake up the Council of Bishops on moral rather than political grounds, pointing out the COMPLETE MORAL FAILURE to address the history of child abuse rampant in the Church. In the process it could get rid of a legion of assholes appointed by Benedict (most of them are massively right wing).

    Bishop Chaput was one these right wingers replaced this year by Francis, tho the problem is that the US has 400+ Bishops, half of them are Benedict appointees and replacing a sitting bishop is a helluva lot harder than replacing a retiring one, and most of the sitting right wingers aren't going out without a fight...often a very vicious fight.

    Cardinal Leo Burke is another one of those Bishops that reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally needs to go, Joseph Strickland from Texas is another one. Then there's that human stain Timothy Dolan.

    Literally almost all the most vocal right wingers on Council are neck deep in the sexual abuse scandal.

    Francis could also distance the Church from the Catholic League on some doctrinal technicality, that would go a long way too.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2020-09-29 at 03:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    -snip-
    Aye, I know. Was joking. But in general the Vatican needs to institute some serious reforms.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    The issue is a bit more complicated. The Church can't directly endorse a politician without risking major legal and even diplomatic fallout.

    What Francis could do to significantly influence the direction the Church is taking in the US is to literally gut the US Bishops Conference. The Catholic Church in the US has always been given an unusual degree of autonomy to avoid the impression of Vatican meddling in US affairs.

    But Francis could simply shake up the Council of Bishops on moral rather than political grounds, pointing out the COMPLETE MORAL FAILURE to address the history of child abuse rampant in the Church. In the process it could get rid of a legion of assholes appointed by Benedict (most of them are massively right wing).

    Bishop Chaput was one these right wingers replaced this year by Francis, tho the problem is that the US has 400+ Bishops, half of them are Benedict appointees and replacing a sitting bishop is a helluva lot harder than replacing a retiring one, and most of the sitting right wingers aren't going out without a fight...often a very vicious fight.

    Cardinal Leo Burke is another one of those Bishops that reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally needs to go, Joseph Strickland from Texas is another one. Then there's that human stain Timothy Dolan.

    Literally almost all the most vocal right wingers on Council are neck deep in the sexual abuse scandal.

    Francis could also distance the Church from the Catholic League on some doctrinal technicality, that would go a long way too.
    Didn't he outright condemn Trump last election?
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  11. #551
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    I think this is interesting, in the context of the thread:



    Revisiting that statement in modern times:

    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Didn't he outright condemn Trump last election?
    He condemned the person for specific acts/rhetoric without an explicit endorsement or a statement that people shouldn't vote for him.

    It's political semantics, but it's semantics that matters.

    Nevertheless the Catholic Church in the US would still need decades of reform to purge the right wing lunacy that has permeated its upper echelons. There's been a lot of appointments during the latter years of John Paul and Benedict who were meant to fight the culture war and who have been shockingly effective at it. Ratzinger has been running appointments in the US much longer than he has been pope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Aye, I know. Was joking. But in general the Vatican needs to institute some serious reforms.
    I think it is clear now that will never happen, the catholic church is way too old and set in it's ways for any changes to really happen. It's actually a miracle the current pope hasn't had an "accident" for speaking out too much and trying to change things.

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Why should the 80% rule the 20% if the 20% would prefer to rule themselves?
    Because they joined the United States willingly, by their local government at the time voting to join and ratifying the Constitution, and that Constitution explicitly prohibits secession.

    Still waiting on your response to ICE forced sterilizations btw.
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    LOL never change guys. I guess you won't because conservatism.
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  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I think it is clear now that will never happen, the catholic church is way too old and set in it's ways for any changes to really happen. It's actually a miracle the current pope hasn't had an "accident" for speaking out too much and trying to change things.
    The Catholic Church has reformed itself more than perhaps in other institution in human history. It is, after all...the oldest continuously operating institution in existence.

    Over it's roughly 1900 to 1700 year history (depending how you count it) it has changed plenty. What it is tho is a profoundly conservative organization that changes with the times but only when said changes are undeniably necessary and or beneficial for its continued existence. The whole "not hating gays" and "women are equal to men" thing are relatively recent developments when you measure time on the scales the Catholic Church measures time on, if the social trends towards acceptance of gays and equality of women continue, and continue to expand worldwide (keep in mind, most Catholics don't live in the developed world) the Church will get with the program eventually because that's what it is in its interest.

    Just as it got with the program with the heliocentric model, old earth creation, evolution, racial equality, democracy etc. The Church changes...it just first needs to make sure that a trend holds before it goes with it. Of course, this attitude is often deeply reactionary as it hinders the very progress it eventually adopts.

    By the way...atheist here, it's just when it comes to religious loons who scare the bejesus out of me, I have to admit, I kinda find Catholics to be the least panic inducing bunch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    The Catholic Church has reformed itself more than perhaps in other institution in human history. It is, after all...the oldest continuously operating institution in existence.
    There are quite a number of other institutions in existence that predate the catholic church by centuries and still operate. There are also a bunch of non religious institutions that predate them as well.

    Def older then the current catholic church run at the Vatican
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  17. #557
    Immortal Thepersona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    There are quite a number of other institutions in existence that predate the catholic church by centuries and still operate. There are also a bunch of non religious institutions that predate them as well.

    Def older then the current catholic church run at the Vatican
    Which ones? Now i'm genuinelly curious. Maybe southeastern asian organizations?
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  18. #558
    The pope may not endorse Biden, but you could just look at Trump and Biden and see which one's past and policy proposals best line up with the teachings of Jesus.

    If every catholic or just christian did this then the choice would be really fucking clear. Even if you want to tack on the issue of abortion, which Jesus didn't really touch on, they should still support Biden because dem policies actually reduce the number of abortions whereas republican ones don't.

  19. #559
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    The pope may not endorse Biden, but you could just look at Trump and Biden and see which one's past and policy proposals best line up with the teachings of Jesus.

    If every catholic or just christian did this then the choice would be really fucking clear. Even if you want to tack on the issue of abortion, which Jesus didn't really touch on, they should still support Biden because dem policies actually reduce the number of abortions whereas republican ones don't.
    Are we talking real Biblical Jesus, the guy who healed the sick and the poor for free, and who spent hours one afternoon braiding together a whip because he felt that strongly that he needed to whip the shit out of some exploitative bankers? Or are we talking Republican Jesus, who loves guns and big tits and MURICA and white folks?

  20. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    Which ones? Now i'm genuinelly curious. Maybe southeastern asian organizations?
    All comes down to definitions and how much "reorganization" is acceptable to be considered still the same organization.
    Also depends on when you officially consider the CC an official organization, a lot of interpretations and dates

    Orthodox Christian Church of Jerusalem
    St. Paul's Foundation, founded by the Apostle Paul
    Eastern Orthodox church
    Benedictines or the Order of St Benedict

    Kongo Gumi Company
    one could argue Imperial House of Japan 500 or so years BC

    University of al-Qarawiyyin

    maybe Chinese civil service?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Are we talking real Biblical Jesus, the guy who healed the sick and the poor for free, and who spent hours one afternoon braiding together a whip because he felt that strongly that he needed to whip the shit out of some exploitative bankers? Or are we talking Republican Jesus, who loves guns and big tits and MURICA and white folks?
    def not the first one because....you know....
    shit hole countries and brown people - Trump 2016-2020
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell
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