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  1. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Give it up. We already went through this song and dance with Trump's cultists who couldn't grasp simple concepts like "people vote, not land mass" and "a handful of states already decide the election" in 2017.
    Honestly, Republicans are just...kind of bad at arguing their points. I mean, if they could actually convince people they were right, they wouldn't need the electoral college, so...
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  2. #1042
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Yeah it is kinda wild that a country that was founded as a tax evasion scheme by white slaveowners ended up being kind of broken in more than a few ways. /s
    You know, before D&D ruined Game of Thrones, they wanted to make a show based on the Confederacy winning the Civil War, and still having slavery in modern day America.

    The premise is ridiculous (the first World War would have been about overthrowing America), and they're shit writers and would have for sure ruined it.....but if it was written well with a massive dose of suspension of disbelief, this topic would surely have to come up as a look into how deep the corruption of the institution of slavery was, more than just being....well, yanno, an utterly inhumane piece of shit institution.

  3. #1043
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeones View Post
    Well yea florida, but those others don't sound like Ohio or any of the other swing states.
    Those 4 states makes up about 30% of the U.S. population.

  4. #1044
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    You know, before D&D ruined Game of Thrones, they wanted to make a show based on the Confederacy winning the Civil War, and still having slavery in modern day America.

    The premise is ridiculous (the first World War would have been about overthrowing America), and they're shit writers and would have for sure ruined it.....but if it was written well with a massive dose of suspension of disbelief, this topic would surely have to come up as a look into how deep the corruption of the institution of slavery was, more than just being....well, yanno, an utterly inhumane piece of shit institution.
    Isn't that basically just The Man in the High Castle, but with a different group of monsters in place of the Nazis?

  5. #1045
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Those 4 states makes up about 30% of the U.S. population.
    Yes and you do realise that under a (correctly structured) popular vote system they would not be able to "decide the election" given the threshold would be 50%? Lol?

    As opposed to the current system in which Republican votes in California get ignored and the election gets decided by less than a hundred thousand people across four entirely unrelated states. Lul.
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  6. #1046
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Holy FUCK that is a fantastic quote. Go Schumer!
    It's a bullshit quote because he'll fold like a literal deuce-five hand in Texas Hold 'Em.

    If we win the majority, Liz Warren needs to be Majority Leader and put some actual bite behind this unauthentic bark.

  7. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    You know, before D&D ruined Game of Thrones, they wanted to make a show based on the Confederacy winning the Civil War, and still having slavery in modern day America.
    Don't make me tap the sign. *points at the sign reading PRISON LABOR*

    This country has never really found a way to exist economically without slave labor. While we're on the subject of Constitutional Law. *cough*
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  8. #1048
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Those 4 states makes up about 30% of the U.S. population.
    Not really a response to me so I'm not sure why you bothered to quote me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    It's a bullshit quote because he'll fold like a literal deuce-five hand in Texas Hold 'Em.

    If we win the majority, Liz Warren needs to be Majority Leader and put some actual bite behind this unauthentic bark.
    Which is unlikely to happen.

  9. #1049
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post

    I disagree. Expanding the court should be in the Top 5 of Biden's First 100 Days (if he wins of course, and the Senate flips).
    The Senate would need to flip substantially. He could legally do it, but you think Republicans will just go for straight out of the gate? Espcially if we're only looking at a narrow majority in the Senate? The Right (both office holder and countryman) would lose its mind, and Biden isn't the kind of guy who goes around making sweeping changes. Congress would also go bright red in 2022 with the narrative being "Biden has abused his power".

    Packing the groups is a feel good short term fix. Without term limits and changes in the way judges are appointed (actual rules and not tradition) all you really do is weaken the seats and open the door for a President being allowed to choose sizable chunck of justices - as if a king was appointed vassals. Unless we the judges to self-regulate their terms in such a ways thats partisan...thats just gross and would degrade the merits of the courts and federal government as a whole.

  10. #1050
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    It's a bullshit quote because he'll fold like a literal deuce-five hand in Texas Hold 'Em.

    If we win the majority, Liz Warren needs to be Majority Leader and put some actual bite behind this unauthentic bark.
    (regardless of Schumer personally, it is a great quote all around - we can nail it to the top of the bill that expands SCOTUS)

    I agree - she needs to take the helm. AND chair the Truth and Reconciliation Committee. The Biden Administration can give her a $1B to fund that endeavor.

    (/knockswood)

  11. #1051
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    If the Democrats do their job right, the Republicans won't have a leg to stand on to get back into power when they have recouped as they are the minority party by a sizable margin, even the Democrats are only the 2nd biggest behind independents who lean left.

    All they have to do is implement the Wyoming Option, admit DC and Puerto Rico as states, expand the Supreme Court while immediately banning Gerrymandering and push for the interstate compact. If they push for those within the following 2 years, the Republicans won't be able to screw their way into power near as much.

    And I would follow it with investigations into McConnell and many others for their actions.
    I would hope those stars align. 2 states, plus courts, and Democrats embracing the Left? I don't see it.

  12. #1052
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeones View Post
    Not really a response to me so I'm not sure why you bothered to quote me.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Which is unlikely to happen.
    It's not that unlikely. It's literally a vote of the Democrats in the room. They pick their own leadership.

  13. #1053
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    The Senate would need to flip substantially. He could legally do it, but you think Republicans will just go for straight out of the gate? Espcially if we're only looking at a narrow majority in the Senate? The Right (both office holder and countryman) would lose its mind, and Biden isn't the kind of guy who goes around making sweeping changes. Congress would also go bright red in 2022 with the narrative being "Biden has abused his power".
    I think you are underestimating how pissed off this country is at the GOP. Biden hasn't been that guy, but he could be.


    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Packing the groups is a feel good short term fix. Without term limits and changes in the way judges are appointed (actual rules and not tradition) all you really do is weaken the seats and open the door for a President being allowed to choose sizable chunck of justices - as if a king was appointed vassals. Unless we the judges to self-regulate their terms in such a ways thats partisan...thats just gross and would degrade the merits of the courts and federal government as a whole.
    Not packing - expanding. Expanding the courts is actually a very good and reasonable long term fix. It dilutes each and every SCOTUS vacancy and makes a judicial appointment a minor event instead of polarizing the nation.

    If Expansion of the Courts is "marketed" right, it would be the start of sweeping change - changes you personally want.

  14. #1054
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Those 4 states makes up about 30% of the U.S. population.
    Because every single person in those states votes the same way. There aren't millions of conservative voters in California or Millions of liberal voters in Texas or anything.

    Nope, it's all a hivemind, the color on the electoral map told us so!

  15. #1055
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I think you are underestimating how pissed off this country is at the GOP. Biden hasn't been that guy, but he could be.




    Not packing - expanding. Expanding the courts is actually a very good and reasonable long term fix. It dilutes each and every SCOTUS vacancy and makes a judicial appointment a minor event instead of polarizing the nation.

    If Expansion of the Courts is "marketed" right, it would be the start of sweeping change - changes you personally want.
    Expanding, packing, whatever the term may be is side stepping the problem.

    The problem is how the senate functions. Addressing that with rules changes that require a 3/4 majority would actually be a wiser long game to play here, but I’m betting they go short term power crazy and end up making a bigger mess in 2022.

  16. #1056
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Great day for the U.S.! Protect our Constitution!
    If that's how you really feel then why are you cheering such awful news?
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  17. #1057
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I think you are underestimating how pissed off this country is at the GOP. Biden hasn't been that guy, but he could be.
    I think some of that anger is masked by the GOP gladly getting rid of Trump after he has given...quite a bit. They can afford to cede 4 years of the WH to a centrist who is likely to only be a 1 term president. Better than keeping Trump around to screw them down the ballot, a gift Trump hasn't been able to deliver.
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post

    Not packing - expanding. Expanding the courts is actually a very good and reasonable long term fix. It dilutes each and every SCOTUS vacancy and makes a judicial appointment a minor event instead of polarizing the nation.

    If Expansion of the Courts is "marketed" right, it would be the start of sweeping change - changes you personally want.
    Packing and expanding are synonymous in various discussion groups due to people being lazy, discussions being derailed due to semantics. We both agree that it weakens seats. Is the act of diluting the seats in the highest court a good or a bad thing?

    Something I forgot to say, the court hasn't changed in over 100 years. The lower courts only expanded, with some consequence but not a whole lot, because the country got bigger. Even then SCOTUS remained the same (partly because SCOTUS is more autonomous and tell people to fuck off). Expansion isn't going to be a strong favorable approach unless the Trump judges just start nuking legislation left and right - in which you definitely have a strong argument for weakening the seats.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    Because every single person in those states votes the same way. There aren't millions of conservative voters in California or Millions of liberal voters in Texas or anything.

    Nope, it's all a hivemind, the color on the electoral map told us so!
    Uh, California actually has a metric ton of conservatives. California also has Los Angeles and the Bay Area to offset the conservatives.

  18. #1058
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoirFaire View Post
    Expanding, packing, whatever the term may be is side stepping the problem.

    The problem is how the senate functions. Addressing that with rules changes that require a 3/4 majority would actually be a wiser long game to play here, but I’m betting they go short term power crazy and end up making a bigger mess in 2022.
    I agree that how the Senate functions is problematic; although I disagree that the term is irrelevant. Packaging legislation is almost important as what the legislation actually does.

    I'm trying to remember if there is some rule against passing a law that requires a certain number of votes with less votes...if that makes sense. I'm other words, you can't pass a law with a majority that requires a super majority to reverse.

    Does that ring a bell to anyone?

  19. #1059
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post

    Packing and expanding are synonymous in various discussion groups due to people being lazy, discussions being derailed due to semantics. We both agree that it weakens seats. Is the act of diluting the seats in the highest court a good or a bad thing?

    Something I forgot to say, the court hasn't changed in over 100 years. The lower courts only expanded, with some consequence but not a whole lot, because the country got bigger. Even then SCOTUS remained the same (partly because SCOTUS is more autonomous and tell people to fuck off). Expansion isn't going to be a strong favorable approach unless the Trump judges just start nuking legislation left and right - in which you definitely have a strong argument for weakening the seats.
    This is probably the most reasonable take in this entire thread.

  20. #1060
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Packing and expanding are synonymous in various discussion groups due to people being lazy, discussions being derailed due to semantics. We both agree that it weakens seats. Is the act of diluting the seats in the highest court a good or a bad thing?

    Something I forgot to say, the court hasn't changed in over 100 years. The lower courts only expanded, with some consequence but not a whole lot, because the country got bigger. Even then SCOTUS remained the same (partly because SCOTUS is more autonomous and tell people to fuck off). Expansion isn't going to be a strong favorable approach unless the Trump judges just start nuking legislation left and right - in which you definitely have a strong argument for weakening the seats..
    Maybe, but it's still a good idea to keep it on the table as a nuclear option in case they do, say, strike down Roe v Wade.
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