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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    uhm,cata had a huge zone revamp,and we saw them presenting the early plans for cata were huge when it came to raiding content,and it ended up being cut more than half,and dragon soul used all existing models,including the zone

    wod was the first epxansion to have 2 tiers only,and even the graveyard in the garrison had a joke grave saying something like rip raid tier

    also its not called milking content when you have more content vs less,yeah the progression systems were more...ehm...progressive?over time,you know there is a reason why wod and cata are seen as the worst expansions

    and wile i personaly did like wod,i still wish it had more content,i was siting there every major patch thinking....oh...more is coming for sure....until i realised that this was it i was left in pure shock

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    jump in all you want,also you didnt mention cata...cata also had HUGE cut content,we saw their presentation before cata launched with all their plans regarding raiding,less than half made it in,and dragon soul had all re-used assets,and if im not mistaken the team has never been bigger than it was in cata(dont quote me could be wrong but im remembering something about this)
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    All wod cut content:

    1. The scrapped interior of Karabor
    2. The Chronal Spire, Tanaan and Farahlon
    3. Fungal Whale World Boss
    4. Shattrath Raid
    5. Zangermarsh Zone
    6. Unfinished Battlegrounds/Arenas
    7. All cut Garrison content [From what we KNOW]
    8. Bladespire Citadel
    9. Ages of War Await
    10. Early Gorgrond
    11. Blood Elf Models.
    12. Yrel's Dark Secret
    13. Feral Worgen storyline in Shadowmoon Valley.
    14. Maraad & Yrel relationship and more
    15. Flying
    16. Tabard Tab
    17. Ogre Island and Unnamed Large Southern Continent
    18. Medivh Cameo
    19. Gorehowl Legendary Weapon
    20. Grommash Hellscream End Boss
    21. Broken Horn Village
    22. Unused Hairstyles
    23. Kargath Survives
    24. Ancient Rylaks
    25. Orgrim Doomhammer Plot
    26. Trial of the Gladiator and Class Accessories

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...rds-of-Draenor

    Thanks @TheramoreIsTheBomb

    There was also a whole raid tier missing, a grave stone near the garrison has a memorial to the lost raid tier with the name Ray d tear on it.
    @deenman sorry to jump in.
    I assumed you were among the "nothing to do"-mob. Seems we were talking about different kinds of content missing.
    You are completely right in the statement that a lot of content was cut from Cata and WoD. But all expansions will get ideas cut, that's just how it is.
    WoD did have 3 raid tiers, not 2. Highmaul, foundry and citadel.
    Last edited by Tronski; 2020-09-29 at 05:13 PM.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Seriously; Blizzard is more than happy to rip-off good ideas, and usually refines them to be even better than the source of inspiration. But for whatever reason, the closest thing to even an *attempt* as housing was the half-assed Garrisons, which offered nearly zero customization of any kind.

    The thing that makes this so crazy to me, is that this is SUCH an easy "Win" for Blizzard.

    Think about it; they have over FIFTEEN YEARS of ALREADY-EXISTING ASSETS they could use. No, it's not as simple as flipping a switch, but it's a damn good start.

    Just like Transmogrifaction, Housing is more than just "the feature itself", but also represents SOMETHING NEW TO DO. People would immediately begin farming for House-items.

    Old dungeons and raids? Tradeskills? Archeology? All of these could be sources of house items.

    And hell, they could even add more shit to the Cash Shop, provided it isn't the ONLY outlet for cool shit.

    Furthermore, Housing is a HUGELY COMPELLING FEATURE FOR MANY GAMERS. No, no everybody cares about Housing. But there are enough that it's clearly a trend for virtually (literally?) every other MMO on the market to have incorporated one.

    My personal advice? I'd track down every single person who worked on WildStar's Housing system and hire them on the spot. WildStar may have failed as an MMO, but its Housing system set a new, unprecedented standard for what was possible in a Housing system.

    Blizzard could do whatever they want with the details. Maybe it's a solo-instance, or maybe they do "shared settlements" like FFXIV where you also see other players' houses. Maybe each character gets their own house, or maybe it's one per server or even per account. Maybe they're free, or maybe they cost a ton of gold. Maybe they're limited, maybe they're not.

    Point is, it would be a truly meaningful feature to the game, and there is no real downside. At worse, "some people won't be into it". Some people aren't into PvP, either, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't support it.

    Like I said, above all else, it just gives people shit to DO again. Even if you aren't great at PvP, or maybe you can't Raid often, decorating your place could be a huge motivation to keep playing and maybe branch out into content you ordinarily wouldn't have.
    Because it's a stupid idea and does not fit WoW.

  3. #303
    Immortal TJ's Avatar
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    They can't, it would cost a raid tier.

  4. #304
    Stop comparing Garrisons to Player Housing.

    Garrisons are legit a 3-D Version of a facebook farmville game. It is not Player Housing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    I assumed you were among the "nothing to do"-mob. Seems we were talking about different kinds of content missing.
    You are completely right in the statement that a lot of content was cut from Cata and WoD. But all expansions will get ideas cut, that's just how it is.
    WoD did have 3 raid tiers, not 2. Highmaul, foundry and citadel.
    highmaul and foundry were suposed to be in the same patch,and even the gear looks the same,also..yeah every expansion has some cut content,but cata and wod were above the rest by some crazy margins,atleast from what we know

  6. #306
    You can play the Sims if you want to decorate your virtual house.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    wod was the first epxansion to have 2 tiers only,and even the graveyard in the garrison had a joke grave saying something like rip raid tier)
    WoD had 3 tiers:
    Highmaul
    Blackrock Foundry
    Hellfire Citadel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    highmaul and foundry were suposed to be in the same patch,and even the gear looks the same,also..yeah every expansion has some cut content,but cata and wod were above the rest by some crazy margins,atleast from what we know
    But they weren't. Spo, WoD had 3 tiers. Supposed to's don't matter.

  8. #308
    I read the title in british accent so it became "-fookin buh-naarghnaahs" instead of f*cking bananas

    On topic, yeah it would be cool to have a guildhousing where people could hangout, why not?

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    You can play the Sims if you want to decorate your virtual house.
    That argument is on the same level as "You can play csgo if you want to play pvp".

    First of all not having a house while being a champion is kinda immersion breaking. Imagine killing titans, gods, ancient evils, surviving cataclysms etc and still not owning a house.

    Second it serves as time and gold sink the same way pet battles are adding value to the game, just because you don't want it doesnt mean it wouldn't add value to game.

    Third, its actually fairly easy to implement and can give a value to old content - running old content can drop decorations.

    So as for time to implement vs value gained its actually one of the best features to add to game. And it would survive more than one tier.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Personally I'm pretty glad Blizzard hasn't wasted any resources on Housing.
    considering they've pretty much copied ideas from every other mmo out there (mostly FF14), i'm impressed that the only things they've left alone from FF14 is player housing and being able to play all classes on 1 character

  11. #311
    Brewmaster Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Seriously; Blizzard is more than happy to rip-off good ideas, and usually refines them to be even better than the source of inspiration. But for whatever reason, the closest thing to even an *attempt* as housing was the half-assed Garrisons, which offered nearly zero customization of any kind.

    The thing that makes this so crazy to me, is that this is SUCH an easy "Win" for Blizzard.
    Love it how non-programmers think these things are just so easy to implement without any problems whatsoever. If it was easy, it probably would have been done already. The fact that it hasn't means that the issue is bigger than you imagine it to be and there are likely many more pitfalls that Blizzard devs would rather NOT deal with.
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  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Wildstar didnt crash and burn because housing. Infact, housing was one of the few things that kept it alive.

    Housing in just about any MMO that implements it ends up being a major feature for said MMO to the extent that it alone keeps many of them going.

    Nor does it take much dev time to keep it going after the initial implementation since new updates to the game naturally add to the housing system with new material being made for a patch working for housing on its own. They dont have to go out of their way to make new furniture when they're making new furniture anyway.

    There is absolutly no downside to player housing and any argument against it tends to be easily countered by just pointing to other MMO which have it.

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    Should also add that if blizzard DOES take time to add housing specific stuff that too is a good thing since they could use said materials for other content too. For example, blizzard has a LOAD of troll themed doodads sitting around because they made a lot early on for vanilla. End result? We kept getting troll content because they already had the material made for them. Another example of that in WotLK they made a lot of half made human/stormwind themed material, which had the misfurtunate consequence that a lot of human settlements afterward were always in the process of being built because house frames were what they had.
    This is all conjecture from extrapolation ontop of more conjecture. You have two crumbs and pretend to know the recipe of the cake. The fact the housing was one of the few "good" parts of wildstar is literally the point I'm making - they spent far too much time on silly little side projects like housing and cinematics and voice acting, and forgot to build a balanced and functioning game with good progression at a good pace. Like I said, maybe if they had ignored the housing and other mindless crap, and focused on the core game instead (budget wise I mean) wildstar would have been a success. It oozed potential, but clearly was not enjoyed by the majority who tried it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    That argument is on the same level as "You can play csgo if you want to play pvp".

    First of all not having a house while being a champion is kinda immersion breaking. Imagine killing titans, gods, ancient evils, surviving cataclysms etc and still not owning a house.

    Second it serves as time and gold sink the same way pet battles are adding value to the game, just because you don't want it doesnt mean it wouldn't add value to game.

    Third, its actually fairly easy to implement and can give a value to old content - running old content can drop decorations.

    So as for time to implement vs value gained its actually one of the best features to add to game. And it would survive more than one tier.
    So not having a house is "immersion breaking" but getting a full size dragon in the mail is fine? And that dragon is in every mailbox in the known universe at the same time, even in parallel universes and altered timelines! Additionally, when I retrieve my full size dragon from one of the mailboxes (maybe one of the mailboxes on a spaceship? Yeah, one of those ones) all the other dragons that were apparantly hiding in the other hundreds of mailboxes ......poof! They vanish.

    Or carrying over a ton of equipment, sometimes including a dragon, in my 5+ backpacks which I carry all at once, while riding a flying horse with sparkly rainbow wings.

    Or the fact that I kill the world ending threat on Tuesday, and the other hero's congratulate me, and we all celebrate and have a great time. Only to learn on Wednesday that his head...grew back? And everyone has forgotten of my mighty deed, and I must do it all again!

    But no, you are right, it's the fact my character doesn't have a home that ruins "immersion".

    The immersion argument is complete rubbish because it's always used while ignoring the other dozens and dozens of far more egregious examples.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    As WildStar proved, a cool Housing system isn't going to SAVE an otherwise failing MMO. That's definitely true.

    That doesn't mean it isn't incredibly useful for player-retention, though. The fact that virtually (if not literally) every MMO on the market not only has a Housing system, but has continued to add to theirs, is evidence that they are clearly very well received by players.

    You mention "in every game metric [you've] every seen"... what metrics *have* you seen? I'm admittedly big into data, so if you have seen any stats on the subject, I'd genuinely love to see! Without hard data, though, all we can do is extrapolate based on what we've seen OTHER MMO's do with their Housing systems. To which, I point back to the previous paragraph.

    Personally, I would say the best solution is you still have individual housing, but the Guild Master is able to tag any guildmate's house as their "Guild Hall", creating an easy access point for your guild to meet. That way, players can still have their individual houses, but still also have that benefit of "this is where the guild can meet to hang-out". At the risk of adding a "gameplay feature" to housing, maybe whatever house is marked as a Guild Hall could also provide guildies a teleport/hearthstone to it?
    I saw an article a few years back about player housing, and a couple of MMO's lent their data and it showed a vast disparity between players who used it and the cost/resources needed to create it.

    I will search for it, and update this post once I find it.

    I just know Blizzard tried it with Garrisons, and people ended up never leaving them, and cities felt underpopulated. Which in turn, hurts the game if you think no one is playing it.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    That argument is on the same level as "You can play csgo if you want to play pvp".

    First of all not having a house while being a champion is kinda immersion breaking. Imagine killing titans, gods, ancient evils, surviving cataclysms etc and still not owning a house.
    I can imagine it becuse I am a guy so busy fighting I don't have time to have a house. There is no down time. You down one threat. The next one pops up.

    Second it serves as time and gold sink the same way pet battles are adding value to the game, just because you don't want it doesnt mean it wouldn't add value to game.
    You wanting it does guarantee it will add value. Pet battles aren't really adding value to the game either.

    Third, its actually fairly easy to implement and can give a value to old content - running old content can drop decorations.
    And you know that how? Are you a programmer? Because Garrisons already showed how difficult housing can be to implement. It is naive to think it is easy to implement.

    So as for time to implement vs value gained its actually one of the best features to add to game. And it would survive more than one tier.
    your opinion, not fact. It won't gain the value you think it will and it is far harder to implement than you think it will.

  15. #315
    Garrison failed because it had professions on it and self farm, no need to players go outside and this was Blizzard biggest mistake with Garrison, 2º one was adding free easy money from table

    Player Housing will bring a new life to the game and gives what Blizzard wants now for their share holders, player logged time

    It can be easily be in some section on major citys, when a player needs something he will need to go to the world or simply the city its in

    Players will farm old content and current one and when a new expansion is released the players will have new content again for their houses, its really a feature easy to maintain by Blizzard across expansions

  16. #316
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    Wow doesn’t need player housing. If that’s the type of content you want, there’s other games out there.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    I assumed you were among the "nothing to do"-mob. Seems we were talking about different kinds of content missing.
    You are completely right in the statement that a lot of content was cut from Cata and WoD. But all expansions will get ideas cut, that's just how it is.
    WoD did have 3 raid tiers, not 2. Highmaul, foundry and citadel.
    i raided mythic in wod as i have done most tiers.

    what content precisly are you claiming i some how missed that would have made wod some how better than expansion price for 2 decent raids ?

  18. #318
    Scarab Lord Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    I recommend animal crossing or the sims for your virtual apartment needs.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I saw an article a few years back about player housing, and a couple of MMO's lent their data and it showed a vast disparity between players who used it and the cost/resources needed to create it.

    I will search for it, and update this post once I find it.

    I just know Blizzard tried it with Garrisons, and people ended up never leaving them, and cities felt underpopulated. Which in turn, hurts the game if you think no one is playing it.
    Definitely do; I'd definitely interested to read. Given every other MMO I'm aware of has a Housing system, I'd definitely be surprised to see evidence otherwise.

    As others pointed out, Garrisons just weren't a proper Housing system. Not only did they lack customization, but they also gave you literally everything you needed. You could gather all your mats (even for tradeskills you didn't have), you could acquire Raid gear, access Auction House... There was no reason to leave, and ENDLESS reasons to STAY there.

    A good Housing system is ONLY cosmetic and COMPLETELY optional.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuggsy View Post
    That can be fixed pretty easily with player housing.. just don't include the AH, Mine, Herb Farm, Etc in the house...? People stayed in their garrisons because they had EVERYTHING mechanically in them. Just don't put that in the housing, making it a cosmetic/trophy place and it'd be something for people to do in their spare time like mog farming/etc.

    Idk where people can bring up it being a waste of development time when they spent time, money and resources bringing a boring, outdated, incomplete 15year old version of the game back only for people to kill the super easy raid bosses and realize there is literally nothing else to do.
    That 15yo game brought in subs - i wont claim to know their financial situation, but i doubt it was a loss for them. I dont see anyone who isnt subbed to the game subbing long term because they added a house - as others have mentioned, there are plenty of other games to play if thats your thing.

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