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  1. #401
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    I have to admit, back in 2004, I was pretty sure WoW would add housing in the next expansion or two. In 2008 with Wrath, I was still pretty sure of that. By WoD, I was kind of confused but I still thought of assumed it would arrive because what else were they going to do?

    At this point, I'll be shocked if we ever see housing.

    And WoW is built in such a way, now, that there wouldn't be all that much point to housing, and even people like me are completely used to operating without it. It's also really late in WoW's history, even if the game continues another decade or whatever. If housing had been added in, say, Wrath, or even Cata, you could have been getting trophies and bits and bobs for several expansions, and by now you'd have these cool, historic, houses and guild halls (like we did back in DAoC). But in 2020, if we got housing right now, any old trophies we got would be cheaply farmed from old stuff, and there'd be no history, so none of that charm.

    The RP/character angle of MMOs in general is way down (at least in WoW, less so in FFXIV I admit) too, so the idea of a house belonging to and representing a character is less of thing, because all characters seem disposable, and RPing is frowned upon severely outside of RP servers.

    So yeah, even if they added it, I dunno if I'd actually care, or actually engage with it. I suspect people have higher standards now for what they'd expect in terms of personalization and so on, too, that would make it a lot more demanding resource-wise than it would have been, say, ten years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angrie View Post
    No housing. WoW doesn't need to follow other games when it's already a leader.
    /thread
    Lol how can someone who has been playing WoW for at least ten years say this with a straight face? Half the most popular systems in WoW got nicked from other MMOs (and improved by WoW, in most cases, to be fair). WoW itself on release was basically just EverQuest with cartoon-ish graphics and improved gameplay, that purely lucked into finding out people loved quests to level (as Blizzard have explained a number of times).

    If WoW did housing, they would probably do what they usually do, find out how other games do it, and come up with an improved system of their own. But I don't think they will, because we've not had it for so long it would be bizarre to add it now.
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2020-10-02 at 11:25 AM.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    That is not what I said. I siad is has been massively popular despite the fact it does not need housing. This whole notion that WoW absolutely has to have housing because everyone else does is absurd. You could also say that without housing, none of those games are as successful as they are, which means the gap between those games and WoW is even more massive.

    There is a difference between that and "OMG, WoW absolutely has to have housing because everyone else does".

    So? The fact that WoW does not need housing to be massively successful is what makes it an even more amazing accomplishment. The fact the other games need to rely on a crutch like that to continue to exist is an indictment of their creativity or lack thereof.

    Also to say Garrisons were not customizable is false. You could choose what buidlng you wanted in it. You could choose what accomplishments you wanted to show off through etc. I was changing things all the time. There wasn't a lot of customization, but there was some customization. Trust me, I was showing it off to friends.
    That's what you were implying. Also, I never said that WoW absolutely has to have anything and at no point was "like OMG" about anything. Those MMOs would absolutely not be doing worse if they didn't have housing either. Housing in FFXIV is so highly sought after yet there's only a few thousand plots available for each world. It's actually a hugely contentious issue because there are millions of people playing XIV and only a tiny percentage of players are even able to purchase land, regardless of whether or not they have the money to do so. The game actually suffers because of it and there are many very unhappy players that can't get their hands on housing at all yet XIV is still quickly becoming WoW's biggest competitor.

    Yeah, fucking no lol. The lack of housing doesn't make WoW more impressive. Blizzard attempted "housing" because it absolutely is a staple feature of many, many MMOs. Those other MMOs don't use housing as a "crutch", it's an EXTRA feature FFS, it's something for people to do in ADDITION of all of the other content. It is only a boon in any MMO that it is included in. You're talking as if it's either housing or raid content, which XIV handily provides players with BOTH forms of content, and in much quicker fashion than WoW ever has.

    Calling garrisons anything even closely related to housing or "customizable" is a fucking joke as well. There's literally less than a dozen predetermined spots where you can choose to place the pre-designed buildings. Blizzard ruined garrisons by trying to add gameplay to them when housing should only exist as a means of personal expression and customization. There should be next to no convenience placed in housing yet Blizzard added so fucking much of it that it basically trivialized going out into the world.



    THAT is housing. Every single item in that home was painstakingly placed individually. From an empty home to a full on townscape within a home. If you can't see that that level of customization is miles ahead of placing your large buildings either on the left or right of your main garrison building then I don't know what to say to you.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifeanychukwu View Post
    THAT is housing. Every single item in that home was painstakingly placed individually. From an empty home to a full on townscape within a home. If you can't see that that level of customization is miles ahead of placing your large buildings either on the left or right of your main garrison building then I don't know what to say to you.
    That's really cool, but I think people saying WoW's engine probably can't remotely handle that kind of customization (even Garrisons had problems with customization, and they barely had any) are likely correct. I don't think it could handle 10% of that level of customization.

    And WoW's designers, historically, have really only done systems that they could do BETTER than the competition.

    I think that's a major issue with housing. Whilst it would be easy for it to be less obnoxious that FFXIV's horrible plot system, the actual customization in FFXIV would likely require a significant engine overhaul to achieve. And that'd just be to equal it - Blizzard would want to make it notably better (they might not succeed, but they'd want to try). So I think that's keeping them away.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Ifeanychukwu View Post
    THAT is housing. Every single item in that home was painstakingly placed individually. From an empty home to a full on townscape within a home. If you can't see that that level of customization is miles ahead of placing your large buildings either on the left or right of your main garrison building then I don't know what to say to you.
    NO, that is what you have declared housing to be so it fits your narrative. Garrisons were housing despite you and many others trying to discount it simply because it doesn't fit your definition.

    Wow does not need housing and is better for it because you need to get people interacting in the world, not sitting in their instance playing house.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    NO, that is what you have declared housing to be so it fits your narrative. Garrisons were housing despite you and many others trying to discount it simply because it doesn't fit your definition.

    Wow does not need housing and is better for it because you need to get people interacting in the world, not sitting in their instance playing house.
    NO, that is what housing is in any game where the housing wasn't a complete failure which was then scrapped for all further expansions. Garrisons were NOT housing despite your insistence that it is.

    Of course WoW doesn't NEED housing but it would benefit greatly from having it. I cannot fucking stand this attitude of "I don't like it so the game doesn't need it". There are so many people that would absolutely LOVE to have housing yet we have people like you that can't help but argue against something that other people would enjoy simply because YOU don't want it.

    Also no, housing in XIV encourages people to interact. In case you haven't noticed, player interaction is basically dead in WoW outside of organized raiding content. People queue up for shit and AFK in towns while ignoring everyone else around them. Housing in XIV isn't tied to convenience and isn't exclusive to individuals. FC's or "guilds" can purchase housing to use as a meeting place (guild halls anyone?). My FC in XIV has meetings every single week in their mansion and all day long there are at least a dozen of my FC mates just hanging around and socializing. I've made more new friends from just occasionally visiting the FC house in a couple of years than I've made in WoW in the last decade so your argument kind of falls apart there. Convenient that you ignored the rest of my points and straight up evidence to disprove your "garrisons have customization" argument as well.

    I'm done arguing with you. We have fundamental disagreements on this issue, only your problem with the feature seems to be some kind of superiority complex with WoW where you refuse to admit that housing would be a good feature for the game simply because of your personal preference.

  6. #406
    Thank fuck we don't have housing. Sounds like a waste of fucking time

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    That's really cool, but I think people saying WoW's engine probably can't remotely handle that kind of customization (even Garrisons had problems with customization, and they barely had any) are likely correct. I don't think it could handle 10% of that level of customization.

    And WoW's designers, historically, have really only done systems that they could do BETTER than the competition.

    I think that's a major issue with housing. Whilst it would be easy for it to be less obnoxious that FFXIV's horrible plot system, the actual customization in FFXIV would likely require a significant engine overhaul to achieve. And that'd just be to equal it - Blizzard would want to make it notably better (they might not succeed, but they'd want to try). So I think that's keeping them away.
    I actually agree sadly. While I would love to see proper housing in WoW I have to recognize that even simple additions to the game regularly break things that are completely unrelated. Housing is a hugely ambitious project to take on and even in XIV there are some pretty glaring limitations to the housing system that require clever use of glitching housing items to place things in certain ways.

  8. #408
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    I would be 100% fine with a little room at the back of an inn where I could place things like statues, pets and even mounts if they're small enough/there's enough room.

    They could just phase it like they do with the Garrisons, and everyone would technically have the same room, just with different things inside

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  9. #409
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ifeanychukwu View Post
    I actually agree sadly. While I would love to see proper housing in WoW I have to recognize that even simple additions to the game regularly break things that are completely unrelated. Housing is a hugely ambitious project to take on and even in XIV there are some pretty glaring limitations to the housing system that require clever use of glitching housing items to place things in certain ways.
    As a fellow xiv player I have to disagree. Interaction overall with strangers is weirdly less in xiv outside the occasional trolling on yell or shout than it is on wow, and your argument that people socialise in the FC house isn't ideal either because all that's doing is taking dialogue that would end up in FC chat and instead moving out to the house, where people outside the house cannot see or participate.

    Chatting in an mmo it's socialising -- doesn't have to be "character face to face" to count, and that serves to compartmentalise social encounters.

    Ultimately, any instanced plot system will inadvertently make the outside game world feel less busy, and I much prefer cities busier because numerous folk aren't off hiding in some instanced housing instead.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Ifeanychukwu View Post
    NO, that is what housing is in any game where the housing wasn't a complete failure which was then scrapped for all further expansions. Garrisons were NOT housing despite your insistence that it is.
    You are not the sole arbiter of what housing is. Garrisons are housing no matter hwq you try to twist the definition to discount it.

    Of course WoW doesn't NEED housing but it would benefit greatly from having it. I cannot fucking stand this attitude of "I don't like it so the game doesn't need it". There are so many people that would absolutely LOVE to have housing yet we have people like you that can't help but argue against something that other people would enjoy simply because YOU don't want it.
    Not the argument I am making and just BS you use to demean people who don't agree with you. Iam arguing it doesn't need it because it would be a waste of resources when they should be used on things like Torghast and actual gaming, not so players can sit in their corner and play house. You also ignore all the players who agree with me. So, stop putting words in my mouth.

    Also no, housing in XIV encourages people to interact. In case you haven't noticed, player interaction is basically dead in WoW outside of organized raiding content. People queue up for shit and AFK in towns while ignoring everyone else around them. Housing in XIV isn't tied to convenience and isn't exclusive to individuals. FC's or "guilds" can purchase housing to use as a meeting place (guild halls anyone?). My FC in XIV has meetings every single week in their mansion and all day long there are at least a dozen of my FC mates just hanging around and socializing. I've made more new friends from just occasionally visiting the FC house in a couple of years than I've made in WoW in the last decade so your argument kind of falls apart there. Convenient that you ignored the rest of my points and straight up evidence to disprove your "garrisons have customization" argument as well.
    Ths is WoW not FFXIV. Houising ain't going to encourage anything more than what Garrisons did. The "hanging out" is already being done in game now and resources don't need to be wasted so you can sit a different location than you do now. You are already hanging out. Where your pixels are located is irrelevant.

    I'm done arguing with you. We have fundamental disagreements on this issue, only your problem with the feature seems to be some kind of superiority complex with WoW where you refuse to admit that housing would be a good feature for the game simply because of your personal preference.
    So, you sayt I have the superiority complex and then you act like your opiniion is fact and I should just agree with you because you are right and I am wrong simply because of your personal preference. The pot calling the kettle black.

  11. #411
    Seeing as we're adventurers, I would much rather have a very small, but customisable camp. Just a tent, a bed, place for your mount and some luggage.
    That way, you can camp almost anywhere you want and still be in the world.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    As a fellow xiv player I have to disagree. Interaction overall with strangers is weirdly less in xiv outside the occasional trolling on yell or shout than it is on wow, and your argument that people socialise in the FC house isn't ideal either because all that's doing is taking dialogue that would end up in FC chat and instead moving out to the house, where people outside the house cannot see or participate.

    Chatting in an mmo it's socialising -- doesn't have to be "character face to face" to count, and that serves to compartmentalise social encounters.

    Ultimately, any instanced plot system will inadvertently make the outside game world feel less busy, and I much prefer cities busier because numerous folk aren't off hiding in some instanced housing instead.
    Exactly. All player housing does is change where your pixels are sitting. So, instead of sitting in the open world, you are sitting in an instance while the world is even more dead than it is now. There are tons of buildings already in the world where you and your guild can hang out. You don't need an instance to do it either.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Thank fuck we don't have housing. Sounds like a waste of fucking time
    This whole thread should be summarized to this comment right here.

    Wow has made it's niche in the MMO world, and everyone knows what it is. Play housing does not fit into this niche. And yes, for a majority of the players, it is a massive waste of time. Whether or not people want to agree with it, the majority of players would just simply ignore something like player housing unless there is something shiney in there like gear for you to get.

    Which is what they tried with garrisons and guess what, people hated it. It took an already non-interactive model and made it even more non-interactive because people just sat in their garrisons and ignored everyone else outside of quing up for stuff.

    Making player housing isn't going to fix that problem. You could make player housing the best player housing in the market, but in a game like wow people are going to hate it because they will just sit there and not interact with anyone and just sit there staring at a wall while you que up.

    If player housing is so great in all these other games, maybe those games are the games for you.

    I know this is a stretch but the only form of 'player housing' that I think is going to be decent is how that game ashes of creation is going to do their strongholds. It's not instanced, it's customizable depending on what your mayor or whatever chooses and it can be constantly changing.

    You can't have a game where you shove 90% of your players into their own single instance and call it an mmo.
    Last edited by Mosha; 2020-10-02 at 01:06 PM.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanibuhl View Post
    Seeing as we're adventurers, I would much rather have a very small, but customisable camp. Just a tent, a bed, place for your mount and some luggage.
    That way, you can camp almost anywhere you want and still be in the world.
    That would be a great compromise. You could summon it like a campfire. It would be treated as an inn where you can get the resting bonus while you level. Then, you could have different types of tents and beds that drop from mobs since they have them all over the game already. You have a socket like interface that you can change them with similar to mount equipment. You will save a lot of resource time since you won't need instancing. This is an idea I can get behind.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    Interaction overall with strangers is weirdly less in xiv outside the occasional trolling on yell or shout than it is on wow
    This is very much the opposite of my experience with that game. Definitely never felt like anywhere ever lacked for random players wandering around and people generally talked more and were more friendly than in WoW.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    This is very much the opposite of my experience with that game. Definitely never felt like anywhere ever lacked for random players wandering around and people generally talked more and were more friendly than in WoW.
    Funny what you describe iw what I have seen on my realm in WoW. I see players all over the place and if in a city, I see a lot of taking when I turn the chat channels on.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    As a fellow xiv player I have to disagree. Interaction overall with strangers is weirdly less in xiv outside the occasional trolling on yell or shout than it is on wow, and your argument that people socialise in the FC house isn't ideal either because all that's doing is taking dialogue that would end up in FC chat and instead moving out to the house, where people outside the house cannot see or participate.

    Chatting in an mmo it's socialising -- doesn't have to be "character face to face" to count, and that serves to compartmentalise social encounters.

    Ultimately, any instanced plot system will inadvertently make the outside game world feel less busy, and I much prefer cities busier because numerous folk aren't off hiding in some instanced housing instead.
    That must have something to do with your world then because it's the complete opposite on mine. I disagree with your second point completely as well. FC chat still happens while people are socializing in the FC mansion. My FC had around a hundred people online at any given time and there was always something going on in chat, at the FC and in instanced content. Even out in the world and among strangers people are always socializing. Every single city aetheryte has TONS of people just standing around and chatting, bards playing real world songs and even FCs that do nothing but hang out and RP in different locations. This isn't even on one of the more populated worlds. Socializing covers a pretty broad spectrum so trying to define it as one thing doesn't really work.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by BALLS BALLS BALLS BALLS View Post
    Imagine caring this much about a virtual apartment in a video game.
    I know right? It's almost as ridiculous as caring enough to drop a shitpost like you did

  19. #419
    Keyboard Turner 1st Heka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    I know right? It's almost as ridiculous as caring enough to drop a shitpost like you did
    completely agree, it's funny how people discredit the things they don't like.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    I know right? It's almost as ridiculous as caring enough to drop a shitpost like you did
    Yeah it's real comparable dropping a spicy one-liner compared to a gigantic wall of text in the OP.

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