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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    Fair opinion, but im not sure myself. I sort of disagree i guess, since i found it more enjoyable when your output was determined by your ability to get your mana management done, which is now just nothing the game really cares for with healers i feel. But after going Nylotha Mythic my raid kinda stopped getting together since the prepatch so i did not get to try out how glimmer gameplay properly feels right now. The time when it was an Azerite-trait was not very intuitive to me though.

    But i really strongly disagree with the mastery. I mean... compare it to for example the synergy the priests have with theirs. I would rather have the absorb you could build up back honestly. Paladin was always a decent healing class, dont get me wrong, but it was also always kind of... flat in my eyes. With like 4 years exception in the whole 16.
    mastery on most classes is just there and mostly forgotten about so we just have to put up with what mastery is on the class we want to play.

    Mana management is never really an issue either as its never been that hard to make your mana last as long as you need it, you still have a choice so you dont need to be a melee paladin healer but it will just be whatever the best way to play it is in SL if its being in ranged or not, paladin is usually weak at the start of expansions in raids at least.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The glimmer playstyle has actually been one of the best versions of holy paladin, instead of spamming slow heals your able to pump out effective healing while doing very good damage as a reactive healer, the current mastery is still decent since its just a flat healing incease but the heals are still good even for ones at max range from the paladin so it doesnt really matter.
    yeah but... if i want dps, i go ret.. not hpal
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoTorres View Post
    yeah but... if i want dps, i go ret.. not hpal
    You still have the choice to do what you want as a holy paladin but everyone generally goes with whats strongest.
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  4. #24
    Pandaren Monk roboscorcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akutare View Post
    If a Holy Paladin is subject to boss effects that target range, then they really shouldn't be in melee. It's just a bad idea. Holy Paladins weren't in melee for most of the game, and honestly, I liked it that way. I didn't want to be in melee, I enjoyed getting to see a larger view of the field and I am usually expected to stand with the ranged anyhow, and Holy Paladins that have been playing since near the start of the game who want to be ranged should be allowed to keep doing that.

    Honestly, for awhile they let you choose. I think it should go back to being a choice.
    I can see why, given past iterations, remaining a ranged spec is preferable.

    But if you take a look at what a paladin is as a while, it just makes sense to have paladins on the front line. We wear plate. We can wield shields. Uther wielded a massive mace.

    Gameplay-wise, it also makes sense to give us the 'melee-specialist' healing niche. Our niche was always single-target heals, which is pretty boring by itself. It also led to situations where pallies got benched for raid-damage-intensive fights. The new system doesn't make us totally competitive with our raid healers, but it's still a big improvement.

    I really like the new gameplay, and I hope they flesh it out a bit more.

  5. #25
    My main problem is how is my Dawn of Light Heal the ranged when I'm in melee? Or am I then forced to use that talent to increase its ranged?

    On top of that I have to first find out exactly where everyone is that need healing, then move to a position to hit them all?

    Or do we get something like the current azerite trait that significally increased its range?

  6. #26
    I really like Holy Paladin healing during TBC, then the improvements into Wrath, but in Cata is when I had so much fun when they gave AoE healing. I know it got nerfed and many didn't like that Paladins received so much over the top healing, but it was a blast. I remember it being just so good on Heroic Ultraxion. Fun times for sure. I also had fun during Legion with my holy Paladin, but it was not quite the same as the old days.

  7. #27
    My beef isn't playing in melee range, because it's a lot more engaging for me. The problem is it is A LOT more punishing, especially when being a second off results in dead tanks. Fine, whatever. The problem is our DPS is mediocre for the extra effort. Disc and resto druids are over here face-rolling their keyboard while providing the same if not better healing and more DPS.

  8. #28
    LMAO what about no. This is the best iteration of holy paladins since LK. GTFO.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by roger400 View Post
    Sorry for bad editing but dont know better.
    ...yeah, this is probably a reasonable thing for someone looking to change a class.

  10. #30
    If you want it to be "fun" remove the crusader strike requirement, buff mastery and add more utility flavor to up close combat, like the original holy radiance. The only thing that makes us a melee healer is crusader strike. Mastery works the same way if you stand in range so 1 ability shouldn't make us melee bound. Even taking the LoD leggo makes us more range helpful.

    I personally don't like the idea of heavy DPS requirements on all specs for content. If I wanted to dps I'd play ret or some other dps spec. Be great if we could go back to dps not being such a heavy requirement for healers or tanks for that matter.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by holywhiskers View Post
    A lot of not very hot takes in here. Glimmer Paladin is by far the most fun version of HPal we've seen in a very long time, spec is usually so slow and boring outside wings. And if you're a healer saying "I don't want to do damage" spec design will never ever revolve around your desires because this is the wrong game for you. This is the wrong genre of game for you.
    I hate it. It's a nerfed version Disc Priest Atonement healing as far as I'm concerned. I'm not at all keen on the current interpretation of Holy Power for Holy either. It was okay in the day, but now there are too few ways of generating Holy Power. Also, we now have three instant direct single-target heals, two of them not hugely different in power, which I think is boring. If WoG did something interesting as well, or if Infusion of Light actually made it a choice between HL and FoL when it procced rather than it just being more "Spam Holy Light" (because there's almost never a time when FoL is worth casting because if you need healing RIGHT NOW you should use an instant, and if you don't HL is far more efficient and at least as good in terms of throughput) it would be more tolerable.

    As it stands to me Holy Paladin healing is fiddly, frustrating, and lacking in interesting options. I find Shaman healing vastly superior, and that's not counting Holy's current low tuning.

  12. #32
    The Patient Powerlamer's Avatar
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    Couple of cents from me as well.

    As some of you are saying it doesnt feel rewarding at all to heal with holy paladin right now.

    1 - Mastery is a joke. I dont want to be a melee healer. Holy paladin have been ranged healers since day 1. The old mastery that would shield for a percentage of the healed amount was probably too good, but the idea was fair. You dont want holy paladin to be an aoe healer? sounds good, at least give us the ability to cheat a bit with some shields that we can apply to part of the raid.

    PS and If you want shields to be a "only disc priest thing", ok, than why do we have and need the Shock Barrier lego? Why do we have and need the Shielding Words conduit? You literally need those to be able to keep plp alive and yourself alive. IMHO

    2 - If I wanted to dps, I would play a dps. I admit its fun to destroy people in pvp 1vs1 as holy BUT if my healing has to suck because I do a lot of dps, I am not interested.

    3 - Glimmer of light cap to 8 targets is another annoying thing. I would prefer if glimmer of light would heal based on the amount of targets its on, like heals for 20% (just using random numbers) if its on 5 players, heal for 15% on 10 players, 10% on 15 players, and that should be the cap IMHO. Hope it makes sense.

    4 - Divine toll cap should be at least the same as glimmer of light, but instead of 8 is 5. I got a decent Aoe heal that I can use with a 1 min cd... and it heals 5 plp...

    4 - Light of Dawn heals for peanuts, and the 15 yard range is a joke (would you take the LoD lego instead of the Shock Barrier? doubt it..). For as much as that spell heals, should be standard 40 yard. Am I supposed to stay melee and use LoD to turn around and heal the ranged for f all and only if I am lucky enough that they are in within 15 yard? c mon

    5 - The hps is bad. I am epic full pvp gear, so around 190 item level (low I know) and I get out-healed by a random 170 healer of any other class. I play a bg like Isle of Conquest, we all go docks, I pop all my cd, wings, aura mastery when needed, and I heal hard as f for a couple of mins ok, everybody stays alive, great success, we conquered the docks... I go and check the healing done and I literally do half the healing of any other healing class, for crying out loud..

    PS I play pvp fully buffed, flasks, food, oil on weapon, etc, I ain't sloppy and I am sure there are way better healers then me (more skilled healer) but I ve always been quite a decent healer, so I doubt its totally me sucking (literally being healing in raids since vanilla, every class but monk).

    6 - The aoe spell we had in cata was awesome. I understand it was OP, but the same idea could be adjusted and made viable today. Sorry dont remember the spell name, was an instant that would heal kinda like Ysera's Gift, if I remember correctly. edit Was Holy Radiance.

    7 - On top of all of this, our raid/defensive cooldowns arent amazing either, compared to a shammy for instance. We got aura mastery every 3 mins, BoP you can use it mostly on ranged, BoS its awesome, but I still take 75% of damage the target takes and has a cd of 2 mins (druid ironbark reduce the damage by 20% and increase the healing done if talented, with a cd of 1.5 mins), LoH is a single target heal, so doesnt count much as a raid cd, especially with 7 mins cd. Thats pretty much it, unless I am forgetting something (please let me know if I did).

    Thats pretty much it, sorry might be a bit long. I was thinking about changing main, but I am pretty sure some nerfs/buffs will happen soon, so I ll just wait and see. Right now I ll just do some more pvp (not worth healing m+ as a hpala in pugs.. too much work for not much reward) and level another char.

    I always loved the hpaladin and I love the offspecs (tank, heal and dps), so for me the only option would be monk... that right now isn t in a good state as well... (I hate druid tank, so druid is no go for me).

    Cheers

    PS - I ve tried to correct all the grammar mistakes, bear with me
    Last edited by Powerlamer; 2021-01-06 at 05:32 AM.

  13. #33
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akutare View Post
    If a Holy Paladin is subject to boss effects that target range, then they really shouldn't be in melee. It's just a bad idea. Holy Paladins weren't in melee for most of the game, and honestly, I liked it that way. I didn't want to be in melee, I enjoyed getting to see a larger view of the field and I am usually expected to stand with the ranged anyhow, and Holy Paladins that have been playing since near the start of the game who want to be ranged should be allowed to keep doing that.

    Honestly, for awhile they let you choose. I think it should go back to being a choice.
    Holy paladins are treated as melee for boss mechanics so this point is moot.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Debased View Post
    My beef isn't playing in melee range, because it's a lot more engaging for me. The problem is it is A LOT more punishing, especially when being a second off results in dead tanks. Fine, whatever. The problem is our DPS is mediocre for the extra effort. Disc and resto druids are over here face-rolling their keyboard while providing the same if not better healing and more DPS.
    If you think holy paladin dps is mediocre then you have been doing it wrong, even without cds i can maintain 2k dps if i focus on dps, and can burst upwards of 5k dps with everything off cd, other healers cant do nearly as much dmg as a holy paladin so complaining about mediocre dmg is completely wrong, any extra dmg you bring makes a fight easier.
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  15. #35
    No thanks, I'm fine with Holy Paladin how it is.

    They need to not take input from 95% of the playerbase, because they all have garbage ideas about how to 'improve' the game.

  16. #36
    The Patient Powerlamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    They need to not take input from 95% of the playerbase, because they all have garbage ideas about how to 'improve' the game.
    so you are saying that a company should not bother listening to 95% of their paying customers?
    Last edited by Powerlamer; 2021-01-09 at 01:10 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerlamer View Post
    so you are saying that a company should not bother listening to 95% of their paying customers?
    Just because they pay, doesn't mean they're right or that their ideas are good.

  18. #38
    The Patient Powerlamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Just because they pay, doesn't mean they're right or that their ideas are good.
    I think the correct answer is "no shit?".

    Of course it doesn't make their ideas good. But if there is something that we know for a fact about activision-blizzard is that they only care about the money.
    So, you implying that they should listen to you (instead of everyone else, because you know better), its not only laughable, but its straight up out of touch with the reality of how the world works.

    BFA was the result of not listening to 95% of the player base, because someone though they knew better.
    Last edited by Powerlamer; 2021-01-10 at 04:23 AM.

  19. #39
    the only thing they need to do to make holy paladin more fun is to revert all changes back to legion and give us back our artifact ability.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerlamer View Post
    Couple of cents from me as well.

    As some of you are saying it doesnt feel rewarding at all to heal with holy paladin right now.

    1 - Mastery is a joke. I dont want to be a melee healer. Holy paladin have been ranged healers since day 1. The old mastery that would shield for a percentage of the healed amount was probably too good, but the idea was fair. You dont want holy paladin to be an aoe healer? sounds good, at least give us the ability to cheat a bit with some shields that we can apply to part of the raid.

    PS and If you want shields to be a "only disc priest thing", ok, than why do we have and need the Shock Barrier lego? Why do we have and need the Shielding Words conduit? You literally need those to be able to keep plp alive and yourself alive. IMHO

    2 - If I wanted to dps, I would play a dps. I admit its fun to destroy people in pvp 1vs1 as holy BUT if my healing has to suck because I do a lot of dps, I am not interested.

    3 - Glimmer of light cap to 8 targets is another annoying thing. I would prefer if glimmer of light would heal based on the amount of targets its on, like heals for 20% (just using random numbers) if its on 5 players, heal for 15% on 10 players, 10% on 15 players, and that should be the cap IMHO. Hope it makes sense.

    4 - Divine toll cap should be at least the same as glimmer of light, but instead of 8 is 5. I got a decent Aoe heal that I can use with a 1 min cd... and it heals 5 plp...

    4 - Light of Dawn heals for peanuts, and the 15 yard range is a joke (would you take the LoD lego instead of the Shock Barrier? doubt it..). For as much as that spell heals, should be standard 40 yard. Am I supposed to stay melee and use LoD to turn around and heal the ranged for f all and only if I am lucky enough that they are in within 15 yard? c mon

    5 - The hps is bad. I am epic full pvp gear, so around 190 item level (low I know) and I get out-healed by a random 170 healer of any other class. I play a bg like Isle of Conquest, we all go docks, I pop all my cd, wings, aura mastery when needed, and I heal hard as f for a couple of mins ok, everybody stays alive, great success, we conquered the docks... I go and check the healing done and I literally do half the healing of any other healing class, for crying out loud..

    PS I play pvp fully buffed, flasks, food, oil on weapon, etc, I ain't sloppy and I am sure there are way better healers then me (more skilled healer) but I ve always been quite a decent healer, so I doubt its totally me sucking (literally being healing in raids since vanilla, every class but monk).

    6 - The aoe spell we had in cata was awesome. I understand it was OP, but the same idea could be adjusted and made viable today. Sorry dont remember the spell name, was an instant that would heal kinda like Ysera's Gift, if I remember correctly. edit Was Holy Radiance.

    7 - On top of all of this, our raid/defensive cooldowns arent amazing either, compared to a shammy for instance. We got aura mastery every 3 mins, BoP you can use it mostly on ranged, BoS its awesome, but I still take 75% of damage the target takes and has a cd of 2 mins (druid ironbark reduce the damage by 20% and increase the healing done if talented, with a cd of 1.5 mins), LoH is a single target heal, so doesnt count much as a raid cd, especially with 7 mins cd. Thats pretty much it, unless I am forgetting something (please let me know if I did).

    Thats pretty much it, sorry might be a bit long. I was thinking about changing main, but I am pretty sure some nerfs/buffs will happen soon, so I ll just wait and see. Right now I ll just do some more pvp (not worth healing m+ as a hpala in pugs.. too much work for not much reward) and level another char.

    I always loved the hpaladin and I love the offspecs (tank, heal and dps), so for me the only option would be monk... that right now isn t in a good state as well... (I hate druid tank, so druid is no go for me).

    Cheers

    PS - I ve tried to correct all the grammar mistakes, bear with me
    I agree with most of what you said. I loved Holy Radiance in Cata, when we finally could aoe heal like the others.
    My problem with paladin in general is Holy Power. I hate the combo point mechanics since they implemented it way back when. It feels clunky and extremely unsatisfactory to use.
    I have played since the end of TBC and I can honestly say Blizz has never had a clear direction when it came to paladins. They changed the class so much over the years that it feels like a different class everytime. Change the spells for all I care, but changing the core mechanics of the class every 3 years was very destabilizing.
    Only thing that kept me playing Paladin as my main was the cosmetic aspect of the class, and the fact that I'm stubborn.
    Looking back I would have changed from Paladin to Druid after Cata if I had the choice again, at least I would have had 1 more option to play with, and let's face it, stealth is so freaking nice to have when questing.

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