Holy paladin, how to make it more fun, Blizzard read this

[Locruid]

if you want blizzard to read this maybe post it on the official forums?

Pfft post on Twiitter. Dont think Blizz is aware players can post on the Official Forums...

[roboscorcher]

@OP, looks like HPala is a HtH healer, without a good aoe, but with instant heals, who delivers some damage. It is fair. If HPal becomes ranged again, he should lose damage dealing or instant cast heals, and back to zero dps....

Idk I think Hpal has plenty of AOE options:
- Light of Dawn, which can extend mastery range with the leggo.
- Talents: holy prism and the healing hammer. Hammer is a useful CD.
- Covenants: Kyrians get 5 shocks and Venthyr get Ashen Hallow. Personally, I find AH very powerful.

Hpal's true weakness is positioning, not AoE. If you can't get in range of your targets, you do less healing. This is why I prefer melee groups when healing: way easier to heal than a caster-heavy group.

[Aleax]

Idk I think Hpal has plenty of AOE options:
- Light of Dawn, which can extend mastery range with the leggo.
- Talents: holy prism and the healing hammer. Hammer is a useful CD.
- Covenants: Kyrians get 5 shocks and Venthyr get Ashen Hallow. Personally, I find AH very powerful.

Hpal's true weakness is positioning, not AoE. If you can't get in range of your targets, you do less healing. This is why I prefer melee groups when healing: way easier to heal than a caster-heavy group.

You are probably right.
Folks say that HPaladins suck at AoE healing unlike other healers, so I just quote what I think is the general viewpoint concerning HPala.

[Cracked]

I don't know, I'm enjoying the iteration of holy pala more than any other, I've been playing holy since the end of WotLK.

[fangless]

They aren't bad at AoE if your group wants to stand around you, or raids where you can cover a lot of melee.

Something like Prideful at higher levels, 15+, goes well for probably longer than it should, if my group is mostly within range.

It's just those situations where people aren't grouped up, from just naturally positioning and having to do whatever mechanic. No one is going to take the tier 1 hammer talent, and Prism isn't better than JoL (which is technically aoe healing).

Really, it's that Light of Dawn is so damn janky, and hard to use correctly, when every other healing class has more smart heal aoe tools available, that take 95% less brain power to achieve the same thing.

[Khaeli]

I love holy paladins as they are and I’m always giving healers 10+ ilvls higher than me competition. There’s a really nice guide by ellesmere called wingsisup and I think it’ll spark the love for hpal for you. To me it just sounds like you don’t like change and refuse to learn. Just give it a chance, and you’ll see how excellent/satisfying it can be. All of the talents and covenant abilities have really great synergy and there’s many ways to play it/remix it. Just make the infusion of light build and play ranged. Nothing’s stopping you!

[Uvania]

Ive been playing holy since early 2005 but this time around im playing retri instead in shadowlands due to another damn expansion where they force us to go melee dps, i want to stay at a safe ranged position just healing like a maniac as i did for 10+ years not this hybrid melee bullshit.

im currently healing on my resto shaman, resto druid and holy priest instead.

[Nyar]

Ive been playing holy since early 2005 but this time around im playing retri instead in shadowlands due to another damn expansion where they force us to go melee dps, i want to stay at a safe ranged position just healing like a maniac as i did for 10+ years not this hybrid melee bullshit.

im currently healing on my resto shaman, resto druid and holy priest instead.

I play an holy paladin since early Vanilla too (even if at that time, I was holy for divine favor + illumination combo and nothing else ) and if you rolled one at this time, you should be happy to have an incentive to go in melee again (and to be truly honest, we nearly always had one, procing seal of wisdom or insight, generating holy power, reducing the HS CD, being able to rebuke, judge (when it was a short range) or stun).

[Uvania]

I play an holy paladin since early Vanilla too (even if at that time, I was holy for divine favor + illumination combo and nothing else ) and if you rolled one at this time, you should be happy to have an incentive to go in melee again (and to be truly honest, we nearly always had one, procing seal of wisdom or insight, generating holy power, reducing the HS CD, being able to rebuke, judge (when it was a short range) or stun).

i tried it for a week but i have more fun healing on my holy priest

[GreenJesus]

Problem with being a melee healer is when you are outside of melee during transitions (hungering consume for example). Also, having our niche be a spot healer that heals dps that get low which translates to beacon healing on tank, but our mastery requiring us to be next to our targets. Since it seems that in most fights ranged are in a separate group from us, our mastery is useless when healing them. Blizzard should make LoD 30 yard range baseline and change the legendary effect to be an AoE pulse instead of a cone or something. 15 yards is just way too small. We shouldn't be required to take the range extension talent to make our AoE heal semi playable. Blizzard just can't decide what they want us to be and basicslly gsve up on fixing the conflicting design choices.

[LazuOG]

yeah but... if i want dps, i go ret.. not hpal

You are kinda lost man. It's free damage and you actually have to play mechanics in the raid. I love the melee playstyle because it's not as bland as past hpal iterations. Some people really have the hots for not moving and hardcasting the same spell for 5-9 mins every bossfight. The game will never go back to that kinda playstyle, every healer has continuously moved towards more niche and complexity in playstyle. I suggest you go with the flow.

Damage is also a very deciding factor for healers right now, and paladin is in a good spot at that.

Lastly, what sense does it make to wear plate while staying at range and casting spells the whole time.

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My main problem is how is my Dawn of Light Heal the ranged when I'm in melee? Or am I then forced to use that talent to increase its ranged?

On top of that I have to first find out exactly where everyone is that need healing, then move to a position to hit them all?

Or do we get something like the current azerite trait that significally increased its range?

If you're not using rule of law on every fight you have been seriously gimping yourself so far.

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Couple of cents from me as well.

As some of you are saying it doesnt feel rewarding at all to heal with holy paladin right now.

1 - Mastery is a joke. I dont want to be a melee healer. Holy paladin have been ranged healers since day 1. The old mastery that would shield for a percentage of the healed amount was probably too good, but the idea was fair. You dont want holy paladin to be an aoe healer? sounds good, at least give us the ability to cheat a bit with some shields that we can apply to part of the raid.

PS and If you want shields to be a "only disc priest thing", ok, than why do we have and need the Shock Barrier lego? Why do we have and need the Shielding Words conduit? You literally need those to be able to keep plp alive and yourself alive. IMHO

2 - If I wanted to dps, I would play a dps. I admit its fun to destroy people in pvp 1vs1 as holy BUT if my healing has to suck because I do a lot of dps, I am not interested.

3 - Glimmer of light cap to 8 targets is another annoying thing. I would prefer if glimmer of light would heal based on the amount of targets its on, like heals for 20% (just using random numbers) if its on 5 players, heal for 15% on 10 players, 10% on 15 players, and that should be the cap IMHO. Hope it makes sense.

4 - Divine toll cap should be at least the same as glimmer of light, but instead of 8 is 5. I got a decent Aoe heal that I can use with a 1 min cd... and it heals 5 plp...

4 - Light of Dawn heals for peanuts, and the 15 yard range is a joke (would you take the LoD lego instead of the Shock Barrier? doubt it..). For as much as that spell heals, should be standard 40 yard. Am I supposed to stay melee and use LoD to turn around and heal the ranged for f all and only if I am lucky enough that they are in within 15 yard? c mon

5 - The hps is bad. I am epic full pvp gear, so around 190 item level (low I know) and I get out-healed by a random 170 healer of any other class. I play a bg like Isle of Conquest, we all go docks, I pop all my cd, wings, aura mastery when needed, and I heal hard as f for a couple of mins ok, everybody stays alive, great success, we conquered the docks... I go and check the healing done and I literally do half the healing of any other healing class, for crying out loud..

PS I play pvp fully buffed, flasks, food, oil on weapon, etc, I ain't sloppy and I am sure there are way better healers then me (more skilled healer) but I ve always been quite a decent healer, so I doubt its totally me sucking (literally being healing in raids since vanilla, every class but monk).

6 - The aoe spell we had in cata was awesome. I understand it was OP, but the same idea could be adjusted and made viable today. Sorry dont remember the spell name, was an instant that would heal kinda like Ysera's Gift, if I remember correctly. edit Was Holy Radiance.

7 - On top of all of this, our raid/defensive cooldowns arent amazing either, compared to a shammy for instance. We got aura mastery every 3 mins, BoP you can use it mostly on ranged, BoS its awesome, but I still take 75% of damage the target takes and has a cd of 2 mins (druid ironbark reduce the damage by 20% and increase the healing done if talented, with a cd of 1.5 mins), LoH is a single target heal, so doesnt count much as a raid cd, especially with 7 mins cd. Thats pretty much it, unless I am forgetting something (please let me know if I did).

Thats pretty much it, sorry might be a bit long. I was thinking about changing main, but I am pretty sure some nerfs/buffs will happen soon, so I ll just wait and see. Right now I ll just do some more pvp (not worth healing m+ as a hpala in pugs.. too much work for not much reward) and level another char.

I always loved the hpaladin and I love the offspecs (tank, heal and dps), so for me the only option would be monk... that right now isn t in a good state as well... (I hate druid tank, so druid is no go for me).

Cheers

PS - I ve tried to correct all the grammar mistakes, bear with me

All I can tell you is that everything you just wrote is wrong and the issues you have with hpals are strictly a you problem. Seriously, try to read some guides and relearn the class because healing output and damage are bonkers right now. We are arguably the best raw healer in the game and no other healer can keep up with us dmg wise.

190 is not just low, btw. It's basically bottom of the barrel.

[ThiagoTorres]

You are kinda lost man. It's free damage and you actually have to play mechanics in the raid. I love the melee playstyle because it's not as bland as past hpal iterations. Some people really have the hots for not moving and hardcasting the same spell for 5-9 mins every bossfight. The game will never go back to that kinda playstyle, every healer has continuously moved towards more niche and complexity in playstyle. I suggest you go with the flow.

Damage is also a very deciding factor for healers right now, and paladin is in a good spot at that.

Lastly, what sense does it make to wear plate while staying at range and casting spells the whole time.

I already find a nice move to heal as hpal without needing to dps.. What i was trying to say is i hate heal on melee range, doing mechanics or move around isnt a problem tbh.. big shit for me is melee range to heal.

But healing with glimmer and spam FoL on beacon you full holy power all the time for WoG and maintain holy shock on cd is gg

[GreenJesus]

If a Holy Paladin is subject to boss effects that target range, then they really shouldn't be in melee. It's just a bad idea. Holy Paladins weren't in melee for most of the game, and honestly, I liked it that way. I didn't want to be in melee, I enjoyed getting to see a larger view of the field and I am usually expected to stand with the ranged anyhow, and Holy Paladins that have been playing since near the start of the game who want to be ranged should be allowed to keep doing that.

Honestly, for awhile they let you choose. I think it should go back to being a choice.

Holy paladins aren't targeted by ranged boss effects... Your raid leader is legit retarded if he expects you to be in the ranged group.

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Yea! But now we got ... "stand close to people" ...which is not only boring but also... just not very good. I think its the most useless one.

The mastery is also completely worthless in arena since we usually have to be near pillar while DPS are away from us.

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mastery on most classes is just there and mostly forgotten about so we just have to put up with what mastery is on the class we want to play.

Mana management is never really an issue either as its never been that hard to make your mana last as long as you need it, you still have a choice so you dont need to be a melee paladin healer but it will just be whatever the best way to play it is in SL if its being in ranged or not, paladin is usually weak at the start of expansions in raids at least.

Mana management for holydins was huge in Antorus. I remember having to plan out with the other heals when we could each use our channeled mana potion on mythic Aggramar. Blizzard needs to do something about our mana because it is honestly just ridiculous that I forget it even exists most of the time. I can go an entire mythic+ (40 minute dungeon) without ever having to think about my mana. It is just completely broken. I'm guessing what their fix will be is to increase the mana cost of crusader strike in holy spec. I think in beta they did do that, but eventually they peddled back on that due to feedback. It looks like maybe that decision was correct.

[Aqua]

I hate the melee playstyle of holy Paladin it is really annoying, though you can get around it with certain talents to a degree. Monks at least make sense to be melee healers.

Preach it. I don't find it fun or engaging, its fiddly and distracts from the fact that I want to be 'healing'.

[Demsi]

I like being in melee and weaving in Crusader strikes and judgements, but i really wish the mastery would be more engaging than it is.

[kenn9530]

Mana management for holydins was huge in Antorus. I remember having to plan out with the other heals when we could each use our channeled mana potion on mythic Aggramar. Blizzard needs to do something about our mana because it is honestly just ridiculous that I forget it even exists most of the time. I can go an entire mythic+ (40 minute dungeon) without ever having to think about my mana. It is just completely broken. I'm guessing what their fix will be is to increase the mana cost of crusader strike in holy spec. I think in beta they did do that, but eventually they peddled back on that due to feedback. It looks like maybe that decision was correct.

The draw back in good mana is paladins healing is weaker overall due to most of it being done from holy shock and generating holy power but that means the healing is capped because of waiting on stuff to come off cd, healing is still good but other healers have it much easier.

[capri sunset]

Mana management for holydins was huge in Antorus. I remember having to plan out with the other heals when we could each use our channeled mana potion on mythic Aggramar. Blizzard needs to do something about our mana because it is honestly just ridiculous that I forget it even exists most of the time. I can go an entire mythic+ (40 minute dungeon) without ever having to think about my mana. It is just completely broken. I'm guessing what their fix will be is to increase the mana cost of crusader strike in holy spec. I think in beta they did do that, but eventually they peddled back on that due to feedback. It looks like maybe that decision was correct.

Yeah I'm worried they're going to keep approaching it from this angle of nerfing crusader strike and holy shock's mana costs, when that's eventually just going to leave us in a state of simply not being as active much like how we play now in pvp compared to in bfa. I'd like to see some things like holy prism baseline with some power added to increase mana spending while filling gcds. You could make infusion relevant again so we hardcast at least a little bit outside of the current situation where you occasionally cast on beacon purely for holy power. I wouldn't want to go too far in that direction either though because then spenders have to be made weaker, and right now they're pretty satisfying right so that would feel bad I think. They just have to get a bit creative with it, which they can probably test out when they bring back tier sets.

[GreenJesus]

The draw back in good mana is paladins healing is weaker overall due to most of it being done from holy shock and generating holy power but that means the healing is capped because of waiting on stuff to come off cd, healing is still good but other healers have it much easier.

We also give 3% passive damage reduction through aura of devotion and can do more damage than other healers as well.

[kenn9530]

We also give 3% passive damage reduction through aura of devotion and can do more damage than other healers as well.

The extra dmg is in sacrifice of some healing output and the dmg is not that much greater than a disc priest, all other healers gain no benefit to healing output from doing dmg so usually only do dmg at certain points in a fight, paladins main roll is keeping tanks alive and another pally can use dev aura, they are a solid healer but have a limited healing output unlike the other healers.