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  1. #1

    Lightbulb Holy paladin, how to make it more fun, Blizzard read this

    Hello, the main reason for me to want a change in holy paladin is to create a ranged viable build while also getting more use out of Light of Dawn.

    Im a healer main playing all healers since end of TBC, i have tried all healers on BFA and checked the new chages in shadowlands ( covenants, counduits, new possible playstyles etc)

    Talents :

    -first row:
    Crusader´s Might : -> Crusader Strike reduces Holy shock cooldown by 1.5
    seconds. ( this is what it already does)

    -> Judgment generates 1 Holy power and coldown is reduced from 12 seconds to 9 seconds. When you cast Judgment your crusader strike wont generate Holy Power neither reduce holy shock cooldown while judgment is on CD.When you cast crusader strike judgment wont generate Holy power for the next 9 seconds.
    Or
    -Judgment generates 2 Holy power and coldown is increased from 12 seconds to 14 seconds.When you cast Judgment your crusader strike wont generate Holy Power neither reduce holy shock cooldown while judgment is on CD.When you cast crusader strike judgment wont generate Holy power for the next 14 seconds.
    ----------- Explanation.
    Here i try to create a ranged playstyle that you can switch from melee to ranged on the fly ( super cool right? ) while also trying to balance with Bestow of Faith talent.
    See that in second option judgement generates 2 HP vs 1 from Bestow while having longer CD and doing no healing while on first option it has 3 seconds shorter CD the Bestow but, again, it does no healing.
    Second row :
    Remove one of the talents and add :

    -> Word of Dawn : When you cast Light of Dawn, Word of Glory will be applied to me most injured target healed by your Light of Dawn at:
    —>A) 50% effectiveness OR
    —>B) a % that represents the heal from Holy Shock, the reason for not display Holy shock is that so glimmer build dont get an interaction with this OR
    —>C) 50% of the healing done by Light of Dawn is replicated on most injured target.
    —D) a % that is 90% the efectiveness of Judgment of light in a party with 3 melees (1 tank, 2 dps or 1 tank , 1 dps and a melee holy pally).

    Explanation :

    Light of Dawn is underwelming to use, atleast in M+, this would create a meaningfull decision between Word of Glory and LoD, here i try to balance the healing provided to the most injured target with the healing provided by Judgment of light ( Judgment of light can still be better in some situations ) or give to it a decent number “aka” the holy shock heals numbers.
    What you think ?
    I see so much fun on this spec but at the time its not as empowered as it can be in terms of gameplay / diversity / fun aspects.

    I dont have beta acess but if you blizzard give me one, i can test this comparing the diferent playstyles in 4 / 5 days.

    Sorry for bad editing but dont know better.
    Last edited by roger400; 2020-09-30 at 04:21 PM.

  2. #2
    if you want blizzard to read this maybe post it on the official forums?
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by roger400 View Post
    snip.
    Nothing you said would change the gameplay at all, holy paladin is main focus is single target healing and it always usually does this very well.
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  4. #4
    so instead of a unique healer that prefers being in melee you want another ranged heal.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zambajazz View Post
    so instead of a unique healer that prefers being in melee you want another ranged heal.
    If a Holy Paladin is subject to boss effects that target range, then they really shouldn't be in melee. It's just a bad idea. Holy Paladins weren't in melee for most of the game, and honestly, I liked it that way. I didn't want to be in melee, I enjoyed getting to see a larger view of the field and I am usually expected to stand with the ranged anyhow, and Holy Paladins that have been playing since near the start of the game who want to be ranged should be allowed to keep doing that.

    Honestly, for awhile they let you choose. I think it should go back to being a choice.

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  6. #6
    I hate the melee playstyle of holy Paladin it is really annoying, though you can get around it with certain talents to a degree. Monks at least make sense to be melee healers.
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  7. #7
    Totally agree. I don't want to do damage, I want to be left alone at ranged casting holy shock, holy light and flash of light, not in Melee using Crusader Strike.
    Blizzard should keep the two playstyles competitive so the players have a choice.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Vrinara's Avatar
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    I feel like Blizz would never look at threads on this website. Soooo kinda pointless to put "Blizzard read this." in it

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    I hate the melee playstyle of holy Paladin it is really annoying, though you can get around it with certain talents to a degree. Monks at least make sense to be melee healers.
    Go a priest then......

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vrinara View Post
    I feel like Blizz would never look at threads on this website. Soooo kinda pointless to put "Blizzard read this." in it
    tbf, they are quite right in not doing so. It's 99% bitching and complaining from arm chair devs who maybe played "Game Dev Tycoon" on their phone while taking a dump a few years ago for 5 minutes. Then they claim they know better than Blizzard.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    Go a priest then......
    Oh I don't play it, I tried it and it was ok kinda, all they would need to do is make light of dawn able to cast on the target and radiate outwards or something like that, even a talent to do it would be fine.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Akutare View Post
    If a Holy Paladin is subject to boss effects that target range, then they really shouldn't be in melee. It's just a bad idea. Holy Paladins weren't in melee for most of the game, and honestly, I liked it that way. I didn't want to be in melee, I enjoyed getting to see a larger view of the field and I am usually expected to stand with the ranged anyhow, and Holy Paladins that have been playing since near the start of the game who want to be ranged should be allowed to keep doing that.

    Honestly, for awhile they let you choose. I think it should go back to being a choice.
    I get your point? But to be honest; If you did not be in Melee as a HP, starting in BC you did not play your class to its fullest, considering the insanity that was seal of wisedom back in the day. Unfortunately it got offed and we got the worst Mastery in the entire game, soo... yea.
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  13. #13
    Just remove the combo point shit and hpal will be ok.

    Paladin isnt a shiny rogue ffs
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    I get your point? But to be honest; If you did not be in Melee as a HP, starting in BC you did not play your class to its fullest, considering the insanity that was seal of wisedom back in the day. Unfortunately it got offed and we got the worst Mastery in the entire game, soo... yea.
    The mastery where paladins left shields on targets was probably the best mastery they had and better than many other healers
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The mastery where paladins left shields on targets was probably the best mastery they had and better than many other healers
    Yea! But now we got ... "stand close to people" ...which is not only boring but also... just not very good. I think its the most useless one.
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  16. #16
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind an extra dps ability that does not necessarily contribute to my healing, just for shit and giggles because I want to be a bit more effective while questing (and yeah..shoot me..not do it as retri or prot)

    It totally is a niche request, I know. I just already have a dedicated retri and prot character.

    Not a biggie if it never happens though

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    Yea! But now we got ... "stand close to people" ...which is not only boring but also... just not very good. I think its the most useless one.
    The glimmer playstyle has actually been one of the best versions of holy paladin, instead of spamming slow heals your able to pump out effective healing while doing very good damage as a reactive healer, the current mastery is still decent since its just a flat healing incease but the heals are still good even for ones at max range from the paladin so it doesnt really matter.
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  18. #18
    A lot of not very hot takes in here. Glimmer Paladin is by far the most fun version of HPal we've seen in a very long time, spec is usually so slow and boring outside wings. And if you're a healer saying "I don't want to do damage" spec design will never ever revolve around your desires because this is the wrong game for you. This is the wrong genre of game for you.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The glimmer playstyle has actually been one of the best versions of holy paladin, instead of spamming slow heals your able to pump out effective healing while doing very good damage as a reactive healer, the current mastery is still decent since its just a flat healing incease but the heals are still good even for ones at max range from the paladin so it doesnt really matter.
    Fair opinion, but im not sure myself. I sort of disagree i guess, since i found it more enjoyable when your output was determined by your ability to get your mana management done, which is now just nothing the game really cares for with healers i feel. But after going Nylotha Mythic my raid kinda stopped getting together since the prepatch so i did not get to try out how glimmer gameplay properly feels right now. The time when it was an Azerite-trait was not very intuitive to me though.

    But i really strongly disagree with the mastery. I mean... compare it to for example the synergy the priests have with theirs. I would rather have the absorb you could build up back honestly. Paladin was always a decent healing class, dont get me wrong, but it was also always kind of... flat in my eyes. With like 4 years exception in the whole 16.
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  20. #20
    To be entirely honest, I love melee healing paladin as a *concept* (I've always deeply hated the idea of ranged healing paladins, because in my eyes that isn't what a paladin is.) but I don't think current holy paladin executes on it as well as it could and would prefer that changes actually lean harder into it and smooth out the rough edges. I know this might sound a bit like envy but I think Discipline and Mistweaver are the things really holding holy back as a melee healer, since mistweavers already had proper melee healing through fistweaving so giving paladins anything like that would upset the monk community, and attonement already exists for people who want to do damage to heal so any thing for paladin would have to avoid stepping on it's toes.

    The only thing I can really think of that might work is changing holy paladin's mastery to make melee attacks pulse a percentage of the damage done as AoE healing in a small area that has falloff and mastery increasing the area and how far it can go before falling off. Then it's just a matter of *maybe* giving holy another melee attack or removing the CS cooldown.

    This would create the differentiation between holy and disc, where disc tries to sustain heal with their atonement and thus has to set it up, while paladins use their attacks as a tool to deal with healing small clustered groups of melee, and likewise doesn't get monks feeling entirely like paladins stole fistweaving from them because the holy version only heals in a small area. To be entirely honest though I don't know if even that is enough to really cements the whole melee healer concept for paladins. It might just require a straight up redesign from the ground up to pull off.

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