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  1. #21
    Generally not a false approach, but doesn't fit into the current game that WoW is.

    WoW has simply become a lot more fastpaced, classes have gotten a lot more powerful, have a lot more sustain, so that mobs would actually pose a challenge to them, they have to be insanely strong.
    You don't go into the outdoor world to have an adventure, you go out to do your daily / weekly stuff, the faster they are over, the better.

    It's just one of those things where you can't turn the clock back as easily, it fit into older versions of WoW because the game as a whole as different, you cannot throw elements that worked under a different philosophy into the current game.

  2. #22
    Gw2 style of scaling you down to maps instead of the other way, multiple world bosses that can’t be soloed, and organized meta events making all maps viable would be preferable to logging in and doing four wq for rep

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.

    It was much more nuanced around wotlk-wod. Classes were powerful, and didn't have large downtime unlike classic. You'd still win dailies without much difficulty, but mobs could still put up some fight, especially if you pulled several. You actually had to be awake and click the proper buttons.
    Isn't that what gaming is about? Do people prefer it this way? Isn't combat in this game part of the fun? I'm genuinely curious, feel free to respond even if you're in favor of this godmode, blizz is seemingly on your side. just please help me understand why.
    They have not been that easy at the start. But yes i am okay with it because after 1,5 years i don't want to fight myself through content i did 1000000 times allready

  4. #24
    Yes I want to start weak in the expansion but after 3 patches and all the gearing I don't wanna have problems with Zuldazar blood trolls.
    By that time I have destroyed armies of them and they should tremble and run at the sound of my steps approaching, for I have decimated generations of them.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    Do people prefer it this way? Isn't combat in this game part of the fun? I'm genuinely curious, feel free to respond even if you're in favor of this godmode, blizz is seemingly on your side. just please help me understand why.
    Yes. Not every part of the game needs to be hard. For people that enjoy games being hard, you have mythic plus, rated arena, and mythic raids. For the rest of us, let us have our tedious but not stressful grinds. Sometimes you just want to mindlessly grind stuff out.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Yeah I am. The 8.3 zones aren’t trivial. That’s how patches work
    They are trivial once you get up around 460 or so.

    This is the vicious cycle they keep getting themselves into because they’re trying to social engineer us into spinning the hamster wheel instead of just building a good game - They keep adding more rewards because they know human brains like the rewards, but long term the rewards trivialize so much.

    The process of leveling right now is absolutely absurd. Classes are tuned for endgame gear so you have super low stats, haste, whatever just using leveling gear. There’s a ridiculous jump from one expansion to the next. Then when you hit max level, you start out at like item level 270 and 18 or so hours later you’re 420ish.

    It’s crazy. No one would ever actually design a new game that way or argue that it’s well thought out. It’s the product of a thousand small decisions that we’re all focused on keeping people who like the game but get bored quicker to subbed for longer.

    Classic is far better designed. Yes, it doesn’t have the longevity as far as replayable content, but at least it has some integrity and the process makes sense. Retail is a spaghetti monster right now.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2020-09-30 at 10:11 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    ... Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds...

    What, do you mean the 410 catchup gear from 8.3? So you're wearing items that have, literally, 4 times the stats of what you were expected? I would be concerned if you were not destroying things with that.

    Dunno if you played at the start of BFA, before they fixed outdoor mobs scaling to your ilvl (the scaling is still a thing, but it's no longer overzealous). It was absolutely horrible. You were raiding mythic uldir, but pulling more than 2-3 mobs outside was still a gamble (well, for SP it was).

    All in all, any automatic scaling, in my opinion, has no place in RPGs. Or MMOs.


  8. #28
    Reading all the answers I honestly question if anyone is enjoying the game anymore. People in this thread use words like "chores", "get over with", "fighting through content".
    You guys should honestly question yourselves why you are doing all those grinds.

    I first thought OP had a legitimate question. Now after all the answers I honestly have to ask myself if WoW is the right game for me if everyone seems to be ok with a game being that "tedious" or where you have "to get through".

    Call me old-fashioned: But there was a time where people actually enjoyed playing a game by itself and not just to do chores or to get to the "endgame". But maybe WoW isn't for those people anymore.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    Yes, because world content at level cap is nothing more than a chore, and making it more challenging won't make it more engaging, it'll just make it more of a chore. Also having recently spent a lot of time playing on a blizz-like WotLK private server, your memory of dailies is very... off.
    Remind me. It really has been a while. I mostly played wotlk as aff lock with haunt, solid self healing, easy tanking pet, but i dont remember it being THIS trivial.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Echeyakee View Post
    What, do you mean the 410 catchup gear from 8.3? So you're wearing items that have, literally, 4 times the stats of what you were expected? I would be concerned if you were not destroying things with that.

    Dunno if you played at the start of BFA, before they fixed outdoor mobs scaling to your ilvl (the scaling is still a thing, but it's no longer overzealous). It was absolutely horrible. You were raiding mythic uldir, but pulling more than 2-3 mobs outside was still a gamble (well, for SP it was).

    All in all, any automatic scaling, in my opinion, has no place in RPGs. Or MMOs.

    Ye i played through all of bfa, and i remember the early scaling. It was harder then now, i think leveling also felt more challenging for some reason, but either way it wasn't "horrible". 3 mobs being a risk seems alright. One mob is safe, two also but maybe easier with some tools (like mage freeze, lock pets, rogue blind if we're going really oldschool), and 3 gets risky. Doable, especially with cds, but you don't wanna repeat it too often. Is that too challenging?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenChieftain View Post
    Reading all the answers I honestly question if anyone is enjoying the game anymore. People in this thread use words like "chores", "get over with", "fighting through content".
    You guys should honestly question yourselves why you are doing all those grinds.

    I first thought OP had a legitimate question. Now after all the answers I honestly have to ask myself if WoW is the right game for me if everyone seems to be ok with a game being that "tedious" or where you have "to get through".

    Call me old-fashioned: But there was a time where people actually enjoyed playing a game by itself and not just to do chores or to get to the "endgame". But maybe WoW isn't for those people anymore.
    Totally agreed (well I'm the OP so I'm biased lol). But ye, I play the game at least partially because i like its combat. Its not something i wanna avoid, its something i think should be made ad engaging and fun as possible. Obv the hardest content should be optional and prolly saved for lategame like torghast and the Maw, but i dont wanna just glare at kobs and watch them die.

    Many mentioned how the current catchup gear is leagues ahead of world quest content that isn't 8.3. That's true i guess, but then is that acceptable? Do we really want "drop of mount and mobs die cuzz you breathe" content? If people find it a chore, its gonna be a chore anyway, but i think it should at least be designed to stay somewhat engaging throughout the expac life cycle. Blizz might disagree with me though.

  10. #30
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenChieftain View Post
    Reading all the answers I honestly question if anyone is enjoying the game anymore. People in this thread use words like "chores", "get over with", "fighting through content".
    You guys should honestly question yourselves why you are doing all those grinds.

    I first thought OP had a legitimate question. Now after all the answers I honestly have to ask myself if WoW is the right game for me if everyone seems to be ok with a game being that "tedious" or where you have "to get through".

    Call me old-fashioned: But there was a time where people actually enjoyed playing a game by itself and not just to do chores or to get to the "endgame". But maybe WoW isn't for those people anymore.
    Oh please, this old song and dance, again.

    People were saying the exact same things throughout. When I started I was warned by jaded players to not bother with this or that because "it's a grind" or "boring". Then I had people tell me I was insane for having fun farming herbs for 8 hours/day as they were sat in cities moaning about having nothing to do, yet they kept logging on.

    And anyone who ever signed up for an MMORPG, signed up for grinding and "chores" to some extent. Having EVERYTHING in the game be designed to every opinionated random on forums, would make the entire game just a huge chore as different people want different things out of the content.

    Some can't tackle content meant to be challenging, so they ask for challenge from content not meant to be as such, like Normal dungeons or questing mobs. Then there's those thinking the content meant to be challenging, should be MORE difficult, and then yet others think that we should have to go through Classic-style grinds for every new raid "cuz that was challenge and FUN!"...

    Seriously. There are grinds, there are chores you can get stuck into, there's those only logging for pet battles, there's those of us not logging at all if we're not having fun in current content. It is not a new thing.

    That being said, MMO-C has a seemingly larger concentration of people sticking with the game despite admitting for years and years to not having fun , than any other forum... I don't get those people, but they have a right to play too. Hell, if you listened to this forum in particular throughout the years, not a single damned expansion was fun and was only played as a chore.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2020-09-30 at 10:32 PM.
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  11. #31
    Yes, I am. Our characters are not supposed to be so weak they cannot deal with the average mooks of whatever enemy we are fighting. It also takes away from raid difficulty.
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  12. #32
    Scarab Lord City Pop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Yeah I am. The 8.3 zones aren’t trivial. That’s how patches work
    Uhhhh, 8.3 zones seem pretty trivial to me. Maybe not for fresh 120s or something.

    I do miss a dangerous open world very much. I hate being able to drop into a town, pull everything in sight and aoe it down. Feeling like a god tends to remove me from games, unless it is something that used to be hard until I overcame it in some way.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    Remind me. It really has been a while. I mostly played wotlk as aff lock with haunt, solid self healing, easy tanking pet, but i dont remember it being THIS trivial.
    I boosted a Warrior to 80 so that I could have some gold from dailies to help level my priest (and also because I remembered having fun tanking as prot in heroics back then). The server gave boosted characters a full set of leveling green gear, but it was equivalent to stuff you'd get from Borean Tundra/Howling Fjord. Not even Storm Peaks level. I had to grind out my weapon skills else I missed every swing and went Fury instead of Prot, but I was still killing world mobs with ease, even in Icecrown. It just took a little bit longer.

    Once I got my priest leveled I went through the motions to get some okay gear, not even enough to get me into ICC pugs, but decent enough, and I destroy world mobs within a single Vampiric Touch->Shadow Word: Pain->Mind Blast->Mind Flay for a tick or two->Shadow Word: Death. My Blood DK is about the same level of gear and mobs die before I even run through all my runes. As an Affliction Warlock, it should've been even easier for you than at least my Shadow Priest.

    So yeah, WotLK world content was very trivial.

  14. #34
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryonas View Post
    We have killed some of the most powerful beings in the universe. We are fucking gods, and we should ROFLSTOMP all mundane creatures.
    Right. I killed Deathwing and Prince Arthas and all sorts of other world ending monsters.

    Why should a friggin Ashvane goon with a pickaxe be any trouble?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenChieftain View Post
    Reading all the answers I honestly question if anyone is enjoying the game anymore. People in this thread use words like "chores", "get over with", "fighting through content".
    You guys should honestly question yourselves why you are doing all those grinds.

    I first thought OP had a legitimate question. Now after all the answers I honestly have to ask myself if WoW is the right game for me if everyone seems to be ok with a game being that "tedious" or where you have "to get through".

    Call me old-fashioned: But there was a time where people actually enjoyed playing a game by itself and not just to do chores or to get to the "endgame". But maybe WoW isn't for those people anymore.
    I like to raid. I've been a raider since TBC. I've never enjoyed having to do non-raid content to be competitive in raids. If I'm not raiding in WoW, I'd like to spend my time playing other games. Other games do exist.

    I'd also like to point out that I also don't mind the obvious gearing progression of dungeon -> heroic dungeons -> raids, but still think it's dumb as hell that I have to keep doing dungeons, made arbitrarily harder by just throwing more random bullshit at you, if I want to stay competitive with my gear.

  16. #36
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    Remind me. It really has been a while. I mostly played wotlk as aff lock with haunt, solid self healing, easy tanking pet, but i dont remember it being THIS trivial.
    It was.

    I was new during WOTLK. I was a clicker, I had zero coordination or ideas about optimization, I dressed in white gear with intellect because I figured "it was good to be smart and the white clothing means I'm a good guy!"... I died to falling off cliffs, other players and fatigue, mostly. I did encounter the odd group quest and thought they were the pinnacle of difficulty.

    It was a cake walk on my second toon, also leveled during that expansion. Had zero issues with mobs as well as group quests.

    The one mob I recall posing a challenge at endgame out in the world, was that ice dragon that was part of the Argent Dawn dailies... But the moment I was fully geared in ICC stuff, it too became trivial.

    In fact, I remember relishing in how overpowered I felt against world mobs in that expansion once I got raid geared. From Legion onward, I've sort of felt that my power growth doesn't succeed that of world mobs fast enough at times...
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2020-09-30 at 10:47 PM.
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  17. #37
    Yup totally fine. Working as intended

  18. #38
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by City Pop View Post
    Uhhhh, 8.3 zones seem pretty trivial to me. Maybe not for fresh 120s or something.

    I do miss a dangerous open world very much. I hate being able to drop into a town, pull everything in sight and aoe it down. Feeling like a god tends to remove me from games, unless it is something that used to be hard until I overcame it in some way.
    My Mythic Nya'lotha geared character cannot easily solo some of the mobs in 8.3.

    There are trivial mobs, there are mobs meant to NOT be trivial. As it should be. Having all mobs challenge even Mythic raiders at every turn would make the game impossible to enjoy. I say that as someone clearly enjoying challenge.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenChieftain View Post
    Call me old-fashioned: But there was a time where people actually enjoyed playing a game by itself and not just to do chores or to get to the "endgame". But maybe WoW isn't for those people anymore.
    Or rather, the tedious conditions I need to clear in order to get the content I find worthwhile

    Analogous to preparing and cooking a meal, sure there are people who enjoy it - but I'd rather eat.
    Last edited by Ivank0v; 2020-09-30 at 10:46 PM. Reason: clarification

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenChieftain View Post
    Reading all the answers I honestly question if anyone is enjoying the game anymore. People in this thread use words like "chores", "get over with", "fighting through content".
    You guys should honestly question yourselves why you are doing all those grinds.

    I first thought OP had a legitimate question. Now after all the answers I honestly have to ask myself if WoW is the right game for me if everyone seems to be ok with a game being that "tedious" or where you have "to get through".

    Call me old-fashioned: But there was a time where people actually enjoyed playing a game by itself and not just to do chores or to get to the "endgame". But maybe WoW isn't for those people anymore.
    I like the game, but I also like seeing actual power growth. 8.1 was pain when you fell off the Legiondary cliff at 116.

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