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  1. #101
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    If I live to be a thousand, I will never understand people who expect WoW quests to be like, Dark Souls or something.

    "When I need to gather 6 bear asses, ever bear should be a struggle! Every bear should be a lesson for the player that makes them better!" No, they really shouldn't. Just give me my bear asses and let me get on with the rest of the day, thanks.

    And there are plenty of areas that can be challenging for anyone that isn't like... a tank or well-geared dps/healer. Nazjatar has areas that are full of hard-hitting elites, and so do the assaults. It isn't all Elwynn Forest.

    TLDR: if you want DS gameplay, go play DS.
    Last edited by Mirishka; 2020-10-02 at 04:31 AM.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Yeah I am. The 8.3 zones aren’t trivial. That’s how patches work
    They actually are and have been since they came out.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  3. #103
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blankfaced View Post
    Hell even a mage against a rogue, or a mage vs shadow priest. If it came down to "hey you need to keep yourself alive" there are clear winners in the game and clear losers.
    Absolutely agree here

  4. #104
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    If I live to be a thousand, I will never understand people who expect WoW quests to be like, Dark Souls or something.

    "When I need to gather 6 bear asses, ever bear should be a struggle! Every bear should be a lesson for the player that makes them better!" No, they really shouldn't. Just give me my bear asses and let me get on with the rest of the day, thanks.

    And there are plenty of areas that can be challenging for anyone that isn't like... a tank or well-geared dps/healer. Nazjatar has areas that are full of hard-hitting elites, and so do the assaults. It isn't all Elwynn Forest.

    TLDR: if you want DS gameplay, go play DS.
    I generally agree with this. I do think that there should be a bit more content that is a bit tougher in the open-world, because currently the jump from the difficulty of open-world stuff to even literally non-heroic dungeons (let alone M+ and so on) is clearly a very big one for an awful lot of players, but it wouldn't be an easy thing to get right, and 8.3 stuff requires being awake about as much as Vanilla farming did - the main difference is that half of what you needed to be awake for in Vanilla was trying to get the spawns before other people did - you weren't trying to avoid dying half as much as you were trying to be the first to hit stuff.

  5. #105
    The thing is that many WoW players who played the game back in WOTLK (where the game was at its peak) already left the game. Asking the existing WoW audience how WoW should change only leads to more systems that only fit the current playerbase. If you really want to change WoW for the better, you need to ask all the people who left WoW over the years. The current playerbase would still play WoW even if the game would become a Candy Crush simulation.

    Most people on these forums, reddit or other mmo-sites are the people who didn't leave the game after all these horrible systems and implementations. They propably also don't want the game to be any other way than it is now.

    I returned to the game after 1-2 years of abstinence and I often thought that the current WoW playerbase is so deep into the current systems that they don't even realize that the purpose of a game should be to be fun and enjoyable. I couldn't understand how some WoW players could advocate for a game to be this way and sometimes treat it similar to a real-life job.

    If there are parts of the game which people see as "chores" or "something to get through" this is not good. And keeping the content mindless easy so that the chores don't become too annoying or time-consuming is not the right way. A game shouldn't have chores!

    Why should there even be parts of the game which are "chores"? Why can't these parts also be challenging, rewarding and fun?

    Also I think most casuals don't want content to be mindless easy either. You know why? Because this is propably the only content many casuals do. Casuals normally don't really raid or do M+. If you regularly raid or do M15+ you are propably not a casual and also don't speak for casuals.

    Most casuals I know still want a challenging game. It is often the raiders and M+ people who want any content outside of raiding and M+ to be trivial so that they can mostly focus on M+ and raiding. But there are also people who would like to have a lot more non-trivial and engaging solo content. Torghast for example is a step in the right direction.
    Last edited by TheTaurenChieftain; 2020-10-02 at 11:51 AM.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenChieftain View Post
    The thing is that many WoW players who played the game back in WOTLK (where the game was at its peak) already left the game. Asking the existing WoW audience how WoW should change only leads to more systems that only fit the current playerbase. If you really want to change WoW for the better, you need to ask all the people who left WoW over the years. The current playerbase would still play WoW even if the game would become a Candy Crush simulation.

    Most people on these forums, reddit or other mmo-sites are the people who didn't leave the game after all these horrible systems and implementations. They propably also don't want the game to be any other way than it is now.

    I returned to the game after 1-2 years of abstinence and I often thought that the current WoW playerbase is so deep into the current systems that they don't even realize that the purpose of a game should be to be fun and enjoyable. I couldn't understand how some WoW players could advocate for a game to be this way and sometimes treat it similar to a real-life job.

    If there are parts of the game which people see as "chores" or "something to get through" this is not good. And keeping the content mindless easy so that the chores don't become too annoying or time-consuming is not the right way. A game shouldn't have chores!

    Why should there even be parts of the game which are "chores"? Why can't these parts also be challenging, rewarding and fun?

    Also I think most casuals don't want content to be mindless easy either. You know why? Because this is propably the only content many casuals do. Casuals normally don't really raid or do M+. If you regularly raid or do M15+ you are propably not a casual and also don't speak for casuals.

    Most casuals I know still want a challenging game. It is often the raiders and M+ people who want any content outside of raiding and M+ to be trivial so that they can mostly focus on M+ and raiding. But there are also people who would like to have a lot more non-trivial and engaging solo content. Torghast for example is a step in the right direction.
    I am sorry but that are just an aweful lot of words for "It is bad because i don't like it!"

    What chroes exactly are you talking about? Dailys? Don't do them. You don't have to. Islands?I don't think i have touched one since the beginning of .2.
    Visions? You again don't have to. You can kill Nzoth ones a week.
    AP is so easy to getr you don't have to gridn anything.

    The open world has players in the range of just hit 120 with heirlooms and player sfull geared in mythic. If you make it challenging for the top geared player in the open world it will be unplayable for new ones.
    Open wordl always was the easiest part in wow. Yes even classic.

  7. #107
    Outgearing introductory content then going back and stomping all over it is one of life's little joys.
    A fictional character doesn't give a flying fart what you think. They do not exist.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    They actually are and have been since they came out.
    They are trivial - Once you overgear them.

  9. #109
    Stood in the Fire
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    To many wow players would feel bad in one of the few forms of content that is for them would becime hard. Leave the outworld as a non scary themepark. We have arenas, mplus and raids.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.

    It was much more nuanced around wotlk-wod. Classes were powerful, and didn't have large downtime unlike classic. You'd still win dailies without much difficulty, but mobs could still put up some fight, especially if you pulled several. You actually had to be awake and click the proper buttons.
    Isn't that what gaming is about? Do people prefer it this way? Isn't combat in this game part of the fun? I'm genuinely curious, feel free to respond even if you're in favor of this godmode, blizz is seemingly on your side. just please help me understand why.

    Editing cuzz a lot of people mentioning doing the zones with quest greens: i did it, qnd ye you're engaged. For a day. Then you get catchup gear and its trivial again. 8.3 zones stays somewhat bearable for longer but only if you Don't m+. If you do, its back to square one fairly early.

    I know not everyone care for outdoors and that's ok, no need to force it. But i miss the Timeless Isle model where if you wanted engaging solo areas, you had them, and those that didn't want could just group or stick to the (frankly more rewarding) easy frog farming.

    Another edit: I'm mostly talking solo content. Fun outdoor group content is nice but dungeons are just as good for that. What dungeons dont have are engaging (not impossibly hard, just a bit engaging) solo options, which wow used to provide loads of.
    Go play a priest. Whenever I swap to any of my other alts, I'm amazed at how much different it feels. Although, with the shadow revamp, there's a possibility that I won't feel like tissue paper any more.

  11. #111
    The easy way to keep world content relevant is to have zones with elite mobs for max level chars only.
    They have done this in the past and it worked pretty well in Legion with the mobs in parts of Suramar.
    It actually makes sense that themed mobs (not just average horses and wildlife) would be a bit more difficult.
    However, as someone else said, some players may complain if that content isn't easily soloable.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    It was much more nuanced around wotlk-wod. Classes were powerful, and didn't have large downtime unlike classic. You'd still win dailies without much difficulty, but mobs could still put up some fight, especially if you pulled several.
    I am 100% sure that's not true. I did the argent tournament until my mind went numb and I can guarantee you those mobs went down in a few hits.

    I'm with InfiniteCharger though, that max level zones should be tougher and have some elites around to encourage grouping up. Still can't believe people whined about invading the homeworld of the burning legion and, gasp, there were a lot of demons that kept knocking them off their mounts without convenient safe paths! However will we overcome this? (ask your nearest leatherworker...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyjscizzle View Post
    It was never not trivial.
    Well - yes, it was not trivial at the start for normal players.

    Same with shadowlands, some brutal world content out there ... until you out gear it of course.

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  14. #114
    The idea that you're implying zones were harder in previous expansions than they are now is hilarious.

    They implemented mob ilvl scaling in Legion (a hugely unpopular decision that served to do nothing but weaken players and waste your time) which makes them retain some level of health even at high levels.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.

    It was much more nuanced around wotlk-wod. Classes were powerful, and didn't have large downtime unlike classic. You'd still win dailies without much difficulty, but mobs could still put up some fight, especially if you pulled several. You actually had to be awake and click the proper buttons.
    Isn't that what gaming is about? Do people prefer it this way? Isn't combat in this game part of the fun? I'm genuinely curious, feel free to respond even if you're in favor of this godmode, blizz is seemingly on your side. just please help me understand why.

    Editing cuzz a lot of people mentioning doing the zones with quest greens: i did it, qnd ye you're engaged. For a day. Then you get catchup gear and its trivial again. 8.3 zones stays somewhat bearable for longer but only if you Don't m+. If you do, its back to square one fairly early.

    I know not everyone care for outdoors and that's ok, no need to force it. But i miss the Timeless Isle model where if you wanted engaging solo areas, you had them, and those that didn't want could just group or stick to the (frankly more rewarding) easy frog farming.

    Another edit: I'm mostly talking solo content. Fun outdoor group content is nice but dungeons are just as good for that. What dungeons dont have are engaging (not impossibly hard, just a bit engaging) solo options, which wow used to provide loads of.
    TO BE FAIR, I very well remember how 8.0's outdoor content (while leveling and at max lvl) was actually non-trivial... like there were definitely some challenges. The problem is just how quickly the power levels are rising with each patch and not really with the outdoor content itself, but that's really a different discussion which affects the game as a whole.

  16. #116
    I'm not a big fan being some kind of demigod but story wise since we are these champions best of the best, some random mobs pig in a forest shouldn't give us a huge problem.

  17. #117
    Harder open world usually happens at xpack or patch launch. Suramar in the early days of Legion was great for that, you usually couldn't overpower the guards if you were careless so you had to play by the zone's rules, especially in the elite-only area where most people ended up grouping or going tank spec. By 7.2 however we had grown so that the place was far easier and there was no need to be all that careful, plus we had flying to bypass the guards anyway. And that was totally fine with me, because while a dangerous open world is fun for a while, at some point you want to get things done, especially on an alt.

    Nazjatar was also an example. When 8.2 launch it could be dangerous in places, with full EP gear a lot less so, now you buzzsaw through it, that's power growth and it feels good to come back and stomp the dicks that gave you trouble before.

    But if you're expecting 3 boars to give you a rough fight where you're forced to sit and drink afterwards, Classic exists.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  18. #118
    Whats more immersion breaking, trivial content or literal godslayers struggling to kill a couple of wolves?

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    Whats more immersion breaking, trivial content or literal godslayers struggling to kill a couple of wolves?
    Those are some very mangy wolves tho
    Pretty sure i saw one of them carrying a knife too.

  20. #120
    I gear up to kill things faster.. that's litterally the point of the entire game.

    Adding any thing that would prevent me from killing things faster.. would retty much delete the core part of the game.

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