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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Those are some very mangy wolves tho
    Pretty sure i saw one of them carrying a knife too.
    I suppose one wouldn't except to get shanked by a wolf, I guess it would leave a gap in your defense if you aren't expecting a shank.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    I suppose one wouldn't except to get shanked by a wolf, I guess it would leave a gap in your defense if you aren't expecting a shank.
    Exactly, they're way more dangerous than titans and old gods.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTaurenChieftain View Post
    Reading all the answers I honestly question if anyone is enjoying the game anymore. People in this thread use words like "chores", "get over with", "fighting through content".
    You guys should honestly question yourselves why you are doing all those grinds.

    I first thought OP had a legitimate question. Now after all the answers I honestly have to ask myself if WoW is the right game for me if everyone seems to be ok with a game being that "tedious" or where you have "to get through".

    Call me old-fashioned: But there was a time where people actually enjoyed playing a game by itself and not just to do chores or to get to the "endgame". But maybe WoW isn't for those people anymore.
    I really started playing in late wrath. There was very little to grind. I did my daily frost stuff, sure, and I went around pugging old raids until I didn’t need the gear from them.

    And once you were geared, you were good. The grind was over.

    Then I played Cata. Same thing: daily grind for 359 dungeon gear, that’s it. Ended when you didn’t need the gear. Rep tabards did the rest.

    Then MoP. Huge daily grind in first patch, due to negative feedback it was basically gone later. I didn’t do Thunder King patch but other than the legendary there was no grind in SOO.

    Then WoD. No grind. Legendary, that’s it.

    Then Legion. Mega continuous grind. BFA. So many grinds it’s not worth listing them all.

    It’s not me that changed. It’s the game.

  4. #124
    If it really bugs you, you can just remove your gear or change it to last expansions gear.

    I would much prefer to not spend all day doing trivial tasks though.

  5. #125
    To me that was always the point; growing my character so that content, which previously seemed hard, becomes easier.
    But i do agree on one point; it doesn't need to be this severe. The powercreep over the course of BFA was just too much.

  6. #126
    Sure sure dude, "hard outdoors content" How hard it is in classic for AQ stocked people to kill mobs? For shit gear alts even nazja mobs are still hard. For mains, you can have hordes of them trying to kill you.
    It has been the same in tbc, WotLK a well geared player could kill mobs who were supposed to be killed by tanks/bombs and not even take damage while doing it, cata was similar.
    MoP had timeless isle, where bis geared people could solo elites who would require party to kill.

  7. #127
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  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Sure sure dude, "hard outdoors content" How hard it is in classic for AQ stocked people to kill mobs? For shit gear alts even nazja mobs are still hard. For mains, you can have hordes of them trying to kill you.
    It has been the same in tbc, WotLK a well geared player could kill mobs who were supposed to be killed by tanks/bombs and not even take damage while doing it, cata was similar.
    MoP had timeless isle, where bis geared people could solo elites who would require party to kill.
    I personally don't really want the classic model. It was fun for its time but a lot of it is dependant on how slowly everyone regens. Not a bad design, and its good that you dont instantly regen even in BFA, but probably not quite fit for a modern game. Timeless isle on the other hand was much more interesting because while yes you could solo certain strong elites, it did require respecting their mechanics, and those mechanics often required dodging so much you'd be likely to pull more weak stuff (say the fire dragons near the flame sprites, or those same fire dragons flying near the Ordon elite yaungols). And there's a limit to how much of those extra pulled mobs you could handle, even on a well geared toon.

    And while its true nazjatar and 8.3 aren't trivial for newly leveled alts, the problem is how quickly they do become pretty trivial. 8.3 stays somewhat decent for longer, but not much longer. Additionaly, there's barely any reason to kill those mobs anyway, there's no currency like timeless isle or mechagon, you just fly or mount, zerg some rares and you're off. Timeless Isle and Thunder Isle gave you reasons to stay and engage them, and was structured in a way that a lot of it wasnt constantly zerged. I wish they'd put some real zone currency in nazjatar and 8.3 where there are actual elites rather then mechagon, something for mount collection or solid catchup gear, and not just the dailies and 1-100 meter grind that doesnt really give you any reason to fight much.

  9. #129
    I think it'd be cool to have a dedicated max level subzone for each zone, ala Warlords, that could be scaled and tuned similar to M+, with rewards to match. You could even throw in some procedurally generated content there to make it even more fun. Imagine if each zone of a new expansion had a combined mini Torghast and M+ dungeon like experience built somewhere into it.

    However for the rest of a zone I do agree being able to come back and curbstomp leveling mobs is an appropriate award for sufficient gearing at max level.
    "Warlocks are the class that gives

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  10. #130
    If you're not geared the 8.3 zones are far from trivial, a lot of classes struggle to take more than 1 mob at a time if they turn up after just hitting 120. Of course gear in BFA scales hilariously so you eventually end up where you can pull as much as you want and it's still trivial. Those zones have to cater to low skill players with poor gear just as well as the best skilled best geared players.

    So yeah, trivial open world is fine. For a Vanilla/TBC experience would require removing class adaptability, self healing, utility etc.
    I7 6700K : 16GB DDR4 3000 : GTX1070 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Baroclinic View Post
    If it really bugs you, you can just remove your gear or change it to last expansions gear.

    I would much prefer to not spend all day doing trivial tasks though.
    Making a more engaging outdoors doesn't have to mean that important tasks take needlessly long. Artifact Power can stay easy but new zones should be interesting for longer. As for removing gear, that actually does work, but it still doesnt really give you a reason to fight anything beside already-zerged rares in 8.3 content. Also doesnt let you enjoy the power you gained vs new activities (haste boosted rotation, many crits synergetic effects like frost and fire mages etc), its a very partial solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    If you're not geared the 8.3 zones are far from trivial, a lot of classes struggle to take more than 1 mob at a time if they turn up after just hitting 120. Of course gear in BFA scales hilariously so you eventually end up where you can pull as much as you want and it's still trivial. Those zones have to cater to low skill players with poor gear just as well as the best skilled best geared players.

    So yeah, trivial open world is fine. For a Vanilla/TBC experience would require removing class adaptability, self healing, utility etc.
    1)that's the exact problem though, there is decent content, but there's no incentive to do it, and it becomes trivial within a day or two of actually playing, a week at most (dailies and zerged rares dont actually require you to face the 8.3 elites much if at all. There's no useful zonewide currency).

    2)a Vanilla/tbc experience, while fun, is something classic already provides enough of for those who love it. I'm talking a more mop feel with the same class design (or frankly better) in comparison to BFA, but more engaging mobs with areas that are meant to be rewarding to challenge youreslf *IF ONLY YOU SO WISH*.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Roujeaux View Post
    I think it'd be cool to have a dedicated max level subzone for each zone, ala Warlords, that could be scaled and tuned similar to M+, with rewards to match. You could even throw in some procedurally generated content there to make it even more fun. Imagine if each zone of a new expansion had a combined mini Torghast and M+ dungeon like experience built somewhere into it.

    However for the rest of a zone I do agree being able to come back and curbstomp leveling mobs is an appropriate award for sufficient gearing at max level.
    That is legit amazing suggestion. WoD style zones were always kinda cool when you actually had a reason to go there. I'd add some of those as **optional** areas in leveling too, just for those who like it like me, with no coercion or important rewards for those who don't want the challenge. Purely for fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I really started playing in late wrath. There was very little to grind. I did my daily frost stuff, sure, and I went around pugging old raids until I didn’t need the gear from them.

    And once you were geared, you were good. The grind was over.

    Then I played Cata. Same thing: daily grind for 359 dungeon gear, that’s it. Ended when you didn’t need the gear. Rep tabards did the rest.

    Then MoP. Huge daily grind in first patch, due to negative feedback it was basically gone later. I didn’t do Thunder King patch but other than the legendary there was no grind in SOO.

    Then WoD. No grind. Legendary, that’s it.

    Then Legion. Mega continuous grind. BFA. So many grinds it’s not worth listing them all.

    It’s not me that changed. It’s the game.
    So very true. The Legion veering towards endless rental power grind, and the increasing severity of it in BFA, are new additions and i dont think they're very welcome. Useful to remember that.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post


    1)that's the exact problem though, there is decent content, but there's no incentive to do it, and it becomes trivial within a day or two of actually playing, a week at most (dailies and zerged rares dont actually require you to face the 8.3 elites much if at all. There's no useful zonewide currency).

    2)a Vanilla/tbc experience, while fun, is something classic already provides enough of for those who love it. I'm talking a more mop feel with the same class design (or frankly better) in comparison to BFA, but more engaging mobs with areas that are meant to be rewarding to challenge youreslf *IF ONLY YOU SO WISH*.
    MOP was almost entirely trivial outdoors though, you had some mobs on the Timeless Isle that were deadly if you messed up, but by and large MOP didn't have anything other than trivial outdoor content. And in a game where gear scaling is now so out of control it's really not possible for them to make a one size fits all zone that is challenging for everyone, but still doable by everyone. They would have to fix gear bloat/scaling (and they haven't in SL even with the squish to 60).

    MOP represented a point where class utility was at its highest too, every class was a god.
    I7 6700K : 16GB DDR4 3000 : GTX1070 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  13. #133
    I hate the first month until first tier raid gear where i basicaly get forced into playing my prot spec in order to get my daily chores done in a reasonable amount of time, in legion for example i could shave of a hour and a half and doing pulls were i would get shredded in dps specc.

  14. #134
    And in a game where gear scaling is now so out of control it's really not possible for them to make a one size fits all zone that is challenging for everyone, but still doable by everyone. They would have to fix gear bloat/scaling (and they haven't in SL even with the squish to 60).

  15. #135
    Absolutely fine with it. In fact I'd make it easier and easier until it became completely redundant so we could eliminate tedious solo content from the game and focus on group content, like the game is supposed to be played.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    I personally don't really want the classic model. It was fun for its time but a lot of it is dependant on how slowly everyone regens. Not a bad design, and its good that you dont instantly regen even in BFA, but probably not quite fit for a modern game. Timeless isle on the other hand was much more interesting because while yes you could solo certain strong elites, it did require respecting their mechanics, and those mechanics often required dodging so much you'd be likely to pull more weak stuff (say the fire dragons near the flame sprites, or those same fire dragons flying near the Ordon elite yaungols). And there's a limit to how much of those extra pulled mobs you could handle, even on a well geared toon.

    And while its true nazjatar and 8.3 aren't trivial for newly leveled alts, the problem is how quickly they do become pretty trivial. 8.3 stays somewhat decent for longer, but not much longer. Additionaly, there's barely any reason to kill those mobs anyway, there's no currency like timeless isle or mechagon, you just fly or mount, zerg some rares and you're off. Timeless Isle and Thunder Isle gave you reasons to stay and engage them, and was structured in a way that a lot of it wasnt constantly zerged. I wish they'd put some real zone currency in nazjatar and 8.3 where there are actual elites rather then mechagon, something for mount collection or solid catchup gear, and not just the dailies and 1-100 meter grind that doesnt really give you any reason to fight much.
    Agreed on that. I would definitely love more Timeless island Elites around the world rather than simple "just interrupt" mobs or something which just hits hard with no way to avoid. Some boss mobs for quests are quite ok or world boss mechanics even. Dodging well projected attacks is engaging.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Exactly, they're way more dangerous than titans and old gods.
    They are when compared to the LFR versions of those titans and old gods. A boar from elwynn forest is more dangerous.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.
    Solo mobs have always been trivial to someone in raid gear unless they have gimmicks. The only time they were ever dangerous is in groups. The only outdoor mobs that have ever been dangerous after the second raid are ones added after the second raid. The game is just faster in general.

  19. #139
    Tbh in wotlk with ICC gear you 2 shotted most of mobs outdoors just like now. Would be nice with tho some outdoor challenge, right now only ones giving somewhat challenge is the big 12 mil rares in uldum/vale.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by vincink View Post
    You must be mis-remembering WOTLK. It was during Wrath that outdoor mobs became trivial. From there on each expansion increased the triviality.
    Indeed. Hell even in TBC the outdoors were trivial aside from a few elites. I remember that for the Sunwell dailies I was mostly 2 shotting the mobs.
    And even in classic, I have absolutely no problems soloing the elite combat assignments in silithus and even the down time is only kicking in after ~4 mobs.

    But .. truth be told they can tone down the grab as many mobs as possible and aoe a bit

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