Are people really okay with trivial outdoors?

[Roujeaux]

I think it'd be cool to have a dedicated max level subzone for each zone, ala Warlords, that could be scaled and tuned similar to M+, with rewards to match. You could even throw in some procedurally generated content there to make it even more fun. Imagine if each zone of a new expansion had a combined mini Torghast and M+ dungeon like experience built somewhere into it.

However for the rest of a zone I do agree being able to come back and curbstomp leveling mobs is an appropriate award for sufficient gearing at max level.

[Bigbazz]

If you're not geared the 8.3 zones are far from trivial, a lot of classes struggle to take more than 1 mob at a time if they turn up after just hitting 120. Of course gear in BFA scales hilariously so you eventually end up where you can pull as much as you want and it's still trivial. Those zones have to cater to low skill players with poor gear just as well as the best skilled best geared players.

So yeah, trivial open world is fine. For a Vanilla/TBC experience would require removing class adaptability, self healing, utility etc.

[Amariw]

If it really bugs you, you can just remove your gear or change it to last expansions gear.

I would much prefer to not spend all day doing trivial tasks though.

Making a more engaging outdoors doesn't have to mean that important tasks take needlessly long. Artifact Power can stay easy but new zones should be interesting for longer. As for removing gear, that actually does work, but it still doesnt really give you a reason to fight anything beside already-zerged rares in 8.3 content. Also doesnt let you enjoy the power you gained vs new activities (haste boosted rotation, many crits synergetic effects like frost and fire mages etc), its a very partial solution.

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If you're not geared the 8.3 zones are far from trivial, a lot of classes struggle to take more than 1 mob at a time if they turn up after just hitting 120. Of course gear in BFA scales hilariously so you eventually end up where you can pull as much as you want and it's still trivial. Those zones have to cater to low skill players with poor gear just as well as the best skilled best geared players.

So yeah, trivial open world is fine. For a Vanilla/TBC experience would require removing class adaptability, self healing, utility etc.

1)that's the exact problem though, there is decent content, but there's no incentive to do it, and it becomes trivial within a day or two of actually playing, a week at most (dailies and zerged rares dont actually require you to face the 8.3 elites much if at all. There's no useful zonewide currency).

2)a Vanilla/tbc experience, while fun, is something classic already provides enough of for those who love it. I'm talking a more mop feel with the same class design (or frankly better) in comparison to BFA, but more engaging mobs with areas that are meant to be rewarding to challenge youreslf *IF ONLY YOU SO WISH*.

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I think it'd be cool to have a dedicated max level subzone for each zone, ala Warlords, that could be scaled and tuned similar to M+, with rewards to match. You could even throw in some procedurally generated content there to make it even more fun. Imagine if each zone of a new expansion had a combined mini Torghast and M+ dungeon like experience built somewhere into it.

However for the rest of a zone I do agree being able to come back and curbstomp leveling mobs is an appropriate award for sufficient gearing at max level.

That is legit amazing suggestion. WoD style zones were always kinda cool when you actually had a reason to go there. I'd add some of those as **optional** areas in leveling too, just for those who like it like me, with no coercion or important rewards for those who don't want the challenge. Purely for fun.

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I really started playing in late wrath. There was very little to grind. I did my daily frost stuff, sure, and I went around pugging old raids until I didn’t need the gear from them.

And once you were geared, you were good. The grind was over.

Then I played Cata. Same thing: daily grind for 359 dungeon gear, that’s it. Ended when you didn’t need the gear. Rep tabards did the rest.

Then MoP. Huge daily grind in first patch, due to negative feedback it was basically gone later. I didn’t do Thunder King patch but other than the legendary there was no grind in SOO.

Then WoD. No grind. Legendary, that’s it.

Then Legion. Mega continuous grind. BFA. So many grinds it’s not worth listing them all.

It’s not me that changed. It’s the game.

So very true. The Legion veering towards endless rental power grind, and the increasing severity of it in BFA, are new additions and i dont think they're very welcome. Useful to remember that.

[Bigbazz]

1)that's the exact problem though, there is decent content, but there's no incentive to do it, and it becomes trivial within a day or two of actually playing, a week at most (dailies and zerged rares dont actually require you to face the 8.3 elites much if at all. There's no useful zonewide currency).

2)a Vanilla/tbc experience, while fun, is something classic already provides enough of for those who love it. I'm talking a more mop feel with the same class design (or frankly better) in comparison to BFA, but more engaging mobs with areas that are meant to be rewarding to challenge youreslf *IF ONLY YOU SO WISH*.

MOP was almost entirely trivial outdoors though, you had some mobs on the Timeless Isle that were deadly if you messed up, but by and large MOP didn't have anything other than trivial outdoor content. And in a game where gear scaling is now so out of control it's really not possible for them to make a one size fits all zone that is challenging for everyone, but still doable by everyone. They would have to fix gear bloat/scaling (and they haven't in SL even with the squish to 60).

MOP represented a point where class utility was at its highest too, every class was a god.

[Lorianus]

I hate the first month until first tier raid gear where i basicaly get forced into playing my prot spec in order to get my daily chores done in a reasonable amount of time, in legion for example i could shave of a hour and a half and doing pulls were i would get shredded in dps specc.

[Jameslold]

And in a game where gear scaling is now so out of control it's really not possible for them to make a one size fits all zone that is challenging for everyone, but still doable by everyone. They would have to fix gear bloat/scaling (and they haven't in SL even with the squish to 60).

[Nzx]

Absolutely fine with it. In fact I'd make it easier and easier until it became completely redundant so we could eliminate tedious solo content from the game and focus on group content, like the game is supposed to be played.

[erifwodahs]

I personally don't really want the classic model. It was fun for its time but a lot of it is dependant on how slowly everyone regens. Not a bad design, and its good that you dont instantly regen even in BFA, but probably not quite fit for a modern game. Timeless isle on the other hand was much more interesting because while yes you could solo certain strong elites, it did require respecting their mechanics, and those mechanics often required dodging so much you'd be likely to pull more weak stuff (say the fire dragons near the flame sprites, or those same fire dragons flying near the Ordon elite yaungols). And there's a limit to how much of those extra pulled mobs you could handle, even on a well geared toon.

And while its true nazjatar and 8.3 aren't trivial for newly leveled alts, the problem is how quickly they do become pretty trivial. 8.3 stays somewhat decent for longer, but not much longer. Additionaly, there's barely any reason to kill those mobs anyway, there's no currency like timeless isle or mechagon, you just fly or mount, zerg some rares and you're off. Timeless Isle and Thunder Isle gave you reasons to stay and engage them, and was structured in a way that a lot of it wasnt constantly zerged. I wish they'd put some real zone currency in nazjatar and 8.3 where there are actual elites rather then mechagon, something for mount collection or solid catchup gear, and not just the dailies and 1-100 meter grind that doesnt really give you any reason to fight much.

Agreed on that. I would definitely love more Timeless island Elites around the world rather than simple "just interrupt" mobs or something which just hits hard with no way to avoid. Some boss mobs for quests are quite ok or world boss mechanics even. Dodging well projected attacks is engaging.

[Kaver]

Exactly, they're way more dangerous than titans and old gods.

They are when compared to the LFR versions of those titans and old gods. A boar from elwynn forest is more dangerous.

[Shaetha]

I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.

Solo mobs have always been trivial to someone in raid gear unless they have gimmicks. The only time they were ever dangerous is in groups. The only outdoor mobs that have ever been dangerous after the second raid are ones added after the second raid. The game is just faster in general.

[Warferno]

Tbh in wotlk with ICC gear you 2 shotted most of mobs outdoors just like now. Would be nice with tho some outdoor challenge, right now only ones giving somewhat challenge is the big 12 mil rares in uldum/vale.

[kranur]

You must be mis-remembering WOTLK. It was during Wrath that outdoor mobs became trivial. From there on each expansion increased the triviality.

Indeed. Hell even in TBC the outdoors were trivial aside from a few elites. I remember that for the Sunwell dailies I was mostly 2 shotting the mobs.
And even in classic, I have absolutely no problems soloing the elite combat assignments in silithus and even the down time is only kicking in after ~4 mobs.

But .. truth be told they can tone down the grab as many mobs as possible and aoe a bit

[Super Kami Dende]

I'm confused anytime People try to pretend that outdoor content has ever been a difficult thing to do in WoW. Especially at max level.

[mrsohta]

Yeah, I don't even like mobs scaling up. At least in the initial expansion zones. I love feeling much stronger while I'm travelling as the expansion goes. I just simply love it that way.

[Boddhi]

A game without aiming and dodging can only be trivial or a chore in solo mode. They actual gameplay mechanics to stay alive are basically "Move to a certain location in time" and "press defense button in time". And as you do this bazillions of times while grinding something this needs to be trivial to not be annoying.

[Amariw]

I'm confused anytime People try to pretend that outdoor content has ever been a difficult thing to do in WoW. Especially at max level.

It was never difficult, but it wasnt this trivial. The difference is that if you mispulled too much, or didnt properly handle a pull, you could (rarely) die, even in leveling, all the way to around mop. Now it just wont happen and most endgame zones become trivial days after a char is maxed.

[Celarent]

Call me old-fashioned: But there was a time where people actually enjoyed playing a game by itself and not just to do chores or to get to the "endgame". But maybe WoW isn't for those people anymore.

For many, especially those with social ties with guilds, WoW is a lifestyle. Incorporate an activity into your daily routine and you become invested in it. That, to a degree, is why players react strongly to dev gambles/failures or grumble while continuing to play.

[Beatman]

They could lower general mob-density and give mobs 1-2 mechanics you want to kick or evade. Or give mobs some combos they can pull off like a casted stun followed up by a heavy hitting attack.

Personally, I would like to see a an "outdoor meta" in which you can't pull 10-15 mobs and 1-shot them like they're bowling pins. Pulling 3-5 Mobs and having to care for mechanics, use defensives etc would be much more healthy.

[Derekbryer]

I always wanted more powerful outdoors. I remember the timeless cloak area being loads of fun to grind with a few Guild mates after a raid. Mindless but pull too many and it could be a problem. I think there should be some kind of option to scale mobs up in certain parts of a zone via phasing/layering of a server so you can group up and have a challenging time questing/grinding in a zone but the base world stays trivial for the scrubs.

[msdos]

We were supposed to get new AI in BFA, in the Islands, remember? Lul.

The harder you make the game, the higher the barrier of entry for noobs and children and they can't have that barrier too high because they've got pets, critters, pokemans and animu mounts to push.