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  1. #121
    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
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    I see no difference in her leaving Bolvar alive to her randomly saying the horde is nothing and abandoning her position as Warchief. She doesn't care. She's focused on one thing w/e her goal is. She went in there to destroy the helm. I just don't get why her leaving Bolvar alive is some massive mistake on the writers. Sounds more like some people didn't like that outcome which is fine but to wantonly attribute to bad writing makes little sense to me.

    I just see the constant theme of people using the "bad writing" throwaway line interchangeably with "i don't like the writing". It's ok not to like the writing or parts of or all of it but don't pretend like your taste determines what is or isn't good/bad writing.
    Last edited by tommyhil622; 2020-10-02 at 04:11 PM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Gstheone View Post
    Would like to hear theories why she didn't kill Bolvar after shattering the helm?
    I dunno, but id like to hear a theory as to why they made bolvar sound like a little bitch in the expansion.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Gstheone View Post
    Would like to hear theories why she didn't kill Bolvar after shattering the helm?
    Preface: to Hell with Sylvannas, not a fanboy

    I feel like its a Thanos situation, she thinks she's doing the good thing and doesn't kill him because he's not a threat to her, he was a minor obstacle that she overcame.
    When Thanos was stone collecting he wasn't just slaughtering everyone, Bolvar just isn't endgame, she got the helm and is much stronger than he is. Then she just moves on

  4. #124
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    I see no difference in her leaving Bolvar alive to her randomly saying the horde is nothing and abandoning her position as Warchief. She doesn't care. She's focused on one thing w/e her goal is. She went in there to destroy the helm. I just don't get why her leaving Bolvar alive is some massive mistake on the writers. Sounds more like some people didn't like that outcome which is fine but to wantonly attribute to bad writing makes little sense to me.
    there is a big difference in "she doesn't care" and being dumb, letting people alive to bite you in the ass is not "i don't care" is "im stupid"

    Unless they pull out some 4d chess reason the "i don't care" seems like the worst explanation.
    I just see the constant theme of people using the "bad writing" throwaway line interchangeably with "i don't like the writing". It's ok not to like the writing or parts of or all of it but don't pretend like your taste determines what is or isn't good/bad writing.
    or maybe it is bad writing, regardless of people liking it, like you said, your taste don't determine what is good or bad.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2020-10-02 at 04:59 PM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Garthul View Post
    Has anyone considered that maybe she COULDN'T kill Bolvar, or that maybe it would be incredibly difficult to do?
    He may not be powerful enough to beat her, but he is infused with the flames of the Lifebinder.
    Perhaps that's why Arthas didn't kill him in the first place either, he literally couldn't. Arthas had no compelling reason to keep Bolvar alive and torment him, as they don't have any significant history together that I'm aware of. Maybe he kept him because he was unable to destroy him.
    Arthas literally gave us the reason why he picked Bolvar despite having no history with him: Bolvar was a replacement for Tirion as his great champion, because Arthas failed to acquire Tirion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  6. #126
    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    there is a big difference in "she doesn't care" and being dumb, letting people alive to bite you in the ass is not "i don't care" is "im stupid"

    Unless they pull out some 4d chess reason the "i don't care" seems like the worst explanation.


    or maybe it is bad writing, regardless of people liking it, like you said, your taste don't determine what is good or bad.
    Except I never use the term good or bad writing. When i don't like something i say why I don't like that piece of lore or the lore itself but i don't try to make it sound like the Author did something wrong. When i see people say that term in my head i go "oh you didn't like it" and i ask questions accordingly. Imo i think better discussions are had without a misused and overly used term.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoodKazekage View Post
    I did question the same thing, my guess is that her only goal was to break the helm.

    I think a better question would be that since no one is controlling the scourge will they be roaming Azeroth through out the expansion or only for the pre patch
    A better question is why would someone as old and powerful as the Jailor would need a random undead elf to do his bidding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    A better question is why would someone as old and powerful as the Jailor would need a random undead elf to do his bidding.
    He's constrained by his imprisonment in the Maw and needs an agent or agents who can operate beyond it. I imagine the pickings for an evil being imprisoned for eons within the realm of Death are somewhat slim.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  9. #129
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    Except I never use the term good or bad writing. When i don't like something i say why I don't like that piece of lore or the lore itself but i don't try to make it sound like the Author did something wrong. When i see people say that term in my head i go "oh you didn't like it" and i ask questions accordingly. Imo i think better discussions are had without a misused and overly used term.
    but when it is bad writing and its not just someone who doesn't like it? its nonsensical to think every time its just because "we don't like it" plenty off time people point out inconsistency and bad decisions that are beyond personal taste and more inclined to bad writing, BfA falls under that, and now, "i don't care"? thats not just "i don' like it" its a rly bad explanation.

  10. #130
    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    but when it is bad writing and its not just someone who doesn't like it? its nonsensical to think every time its just because "we don't like it" plenty off time people point out inconsistency and bad decisions that are beyond personal taste and more inclined to bad writing, BfA falls under that, and now, "i don't care"? thats not just "i don' like it" its a rly bad explanation.
    I don't think every time when someone says it's bad writing is just simply that the reader didn't like. I think it's common knowledge that there are instances of bad writing. What I'm saying is that most of the time it's used in these forums it's usually just that the person didn't like it. But yes I acknowledge there are instances of poor/bad writing. I personally don't think Bolvar surviving Slyvannas isn't one of those instances. Yea I personally didn't like BFA at all, it was convoluted and lacked a true sense of direction.

  11. #131
    I hope they have an actual reason for this and not a "the antagonist was too arrogant to care" nonsense which does not fit Sylvanas's character at all. But I'm leaning heavily towards the latter. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    A better question is why would someone as old and powerful as the Jailor would need a random undead elf to do his bidding.
    That one actually makes sense. He has no access to anyone in the outside world to help him escape. He had a chance encounter with Sylvanas, so he is using her to achieve his goal.

    It seems pretty logical to me. It didn't have to be Sylvanas, it could have been almost anyone with power. But it was her, because she was whom he happened to meet due to Sylvanas surviving from her extremely foolish decision to kill herself at Icecrown in that short story.

  12. #132
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    I personally don't think Bolvar surviving Slyvannas isn't one of those instances. Yea I personally didn't like BFA at all, it was convoluted and lacked a true sense of direction.
    Unless they show why, and have a good decent reason for it, it is bad writing, because its the common clichê of fantasy where the villain don' kill the "heroes", because he is "better than then" and later the hero come back stronger after a heroic journey, the problem is that setting is rly outdated now and without a good explanation is lame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    It seems pretty logical to me. It didn't have to be Sylvanas, it could have been almost anyone with power. But it was her, because she was whom he happened to meet due to Sylvanas surviving from her extremely foolish decision to kill herself at Icecrown in that short story.
    the question is why her and not everyone else more suited, tons of people died in wtLK, even before

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Right after he was sprawled on the ground, massively depowered in a forceful fashion and with "I can chain you to the floor at will bro" arrows still sticking out of his body? I never knew Bolvar "the burning wreck of man" Fordragon was the Usain Bolt of Azeroth. Very unexpected. But I guess you learn something new every day.
    Ever saw Lord of the Rings? If Gandalf can jump of a tower after being tortured, then so can Bolvar. But I know, it's not a Horde character, so in your eyes he will never be able to do anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    That's actually pretty horrific to think of, really. Imagine Bolvar torn apart, his head over at the edge of the pinnacle of Icecrown and his arms and legs scattered about, but all of him still alive and in pain - the power of Life so strong that he simply can't die normally even due to massive injury.
    Urgh, considering he is litterally burning inside since the Wrathgate... that now seems quite likely.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Garthul View Post
    Has anyone considered that maybe she COULDN'T kill Bolvar, or that maybe it would be incredibly difficult to do?
    He may not be powerful enough to beat her, but he is infused with the flames of the Lifebinder.
    Perhaps that's why Arthas didn't kill him in the first place either, he literally couldn't. Arthas had no compelling reason to keep Bolvar alive and torment him, as they don't have any significant history together that I'm aware of. Maybe he kept him because he was unable to destroy him.
    Maybe it's less that he can't die, but because of his circumstances that leaves him outside the normal cycle of the Shadowlands making killing him pointless or maybe even dangerous.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    You might have been right if it wasnt for two things:

    1.) Writers are (or at least pretend to) taking this really seriously
    2.) The gameplay sucks too
    1) The Room had writers who took it seriously.
    2) ok, why are you here?

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    , why are you here?
    I wasn't aware that you must like everything in WoW in order to post on MMOC. Could you kindly point me to the forum rule in that regard?
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I wasn't aware that you must like everything in WoW in order to post on MMOC. Could you kindly point me to the forum rule in that regard?
    A blanket statement about gameplay sucking makes me wonder why someone would play said game.

  18. #138
    It's weird seeing people underwrite terrible narratives with even more terrible conjectures. This is yet another flimsy witch hunt style narrative from Blizzard that simply takes a lore character of value to the consumer and distorts it to fulfil an even more flimsy narrative to perpetuate guess what-? More flimsy narratives. Sylvanas acted out of character and Destroying the helm should simply free Ner'zhul. But alas, one must destroy ALL the good lore of WC3 in order to allow shallow minded and poorly educated writers to cannibalize and capitalize on the stories laid out decades before they even knew what Blizzard was.

    None of it is cohesive or even realistic in terms of characters and longevity of plot or storyline. It's simply cannibalizing the characters to please the crowd and blatantly ignores the some of the very well thought out characters and lore written before it. Not only was Sylvanas robbed of her revenge on Ner'zhul, Ner'zhul himself was underwritten and stolen of his own lore by being taken over by a 19 year old Prince of Lorderon because Blizzard failed to create a deep and interesting storyline. The whole "father, is it over?" garbage was one of the WORST parts of Blizzard story telling; almost as bad as Illidan being sold as a Villain in Burning Crusade. It's just "poster boy" marketing and is horribly transparent.

    Imagine that, an orc so powerful and cunning that even the demon lords themselves couldn't deal with him, so they ripped his soul from his body and bound it to armor, encasing it in ice and throwing it at the north pole, hundreds of years old at this point, along comes some little princeling who not only fell and was gripped by the will of Ner'zhul to kill his own father, manages to "overcome" such a being? Bah. Pathetic.
    Last edited by zysis; 2020-10-05 at 06:26 PM.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    A blanket statement about gameplay sucking makes me wonder why someone would play said game.
    You must be confusing this webzone with official Blizzard forums. I dont need active subscription to post here.

  20. #140
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    A blanket statement about gameplay sucking makes me wonder why someone would play said game.
    Because maybe in previous iterations it didn't suck that badly? See, I can bold random words too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

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