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  1. #161
    I don't want to promote Preach or anything because he usually only sees the game from his mythic raiding lense, which is ok but people assume his problems with the game relates to them.

    Basically there are raid bosses they have tried to get to work but they just dont work properly so thats whats holding it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    Preach said that during a second round of raid testing 3 days ago, some classes were 50% ahead of others. He believes this is what led to the delay.

    It’s looking like the web of covenants, soulbinds, and conduits are so impossible to tune, they have resorted to heavily nerfing everything. I believe we’ll see a total rework of at least one of these systems before launch.
    Well if only there are only 1 or 2 people in the raid which is affected, then thats pretty good looking at the entire picture.

  2. #162
    Pandaren Monk Rusken's Avatar
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    I don't honestly see them changing much. Having been on the Beta for a couple months now the biggest issue is really that just about everything is broken in some way. People have been asking for them to change Covenants to purely cosmetic choices since they were announced to be meaningful semi-permanent choices and they haven't budged on that at all. (Nor should they, IMO)

    If they use this delay for nothing but bug fixes I think it will be fine to release by mid-late November. If they start making big system changes now the delay would need to be until March for them to re-balance everything and make the game playable.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    Preach said that during a second round of raid testing 3 days ago, some classes were 50% ahead of others. He believes this is what led to the delay.

    It’s looking like the web of covenants, soulbinds, and conduits are so impossible to tune, they have resorted to heavily nerfing everything. I believe we’ll see a total rework of at least one of these systems before launch.
    So just like BFA right now? I mean that was never an issue for blizzard.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
    Wow, didn't take long to get to the 'complaining about my vacation' post.

    Seriously people, don't take vacation for a video game. You're not a child, and this isn't what you should be using your vacation hours on. If you are, you are objectively a child.

    Instead, maybe take the time to properly respond to the content of the OP.


    Edit: If you are legally of childhood age in your country, then I'm sorry. You should take this opportunity as a lesson to make better life choices.
    Who are you to tell me what to do with my vacation days?

  5. #165
    Dead game is dead. Never in a million years thought I would ever make a post like this. It is amazing what a year away from the game does for perspective.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
    Wow, didn't take long to get to the 'complaining about my vacation' post.

    Seriously people, don't take vacation for a video game. You're not a child, and this isn't what you should be using your vacation hours on. If you are, you are objectively a child.

    Instead, maybe take the time to properly respond to the content of the OP.


    Edit: If you are legally of childhood age in your country, then I'm sorry. You should take this opportunity as a lesson to make better life choices.
    What? Taking off time for a hobby makes you a child? People can take time off for whatever they want. Be that fishing, underwater basket weaving or even, gasp, playing a game.

    I took it off as did my wife, it's family time for us. Luckily though we work jobs that we can reschedule

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Who are you to tell me what to do with my vacation days?
    It's like people who say "you spend too much time playing games" and the spend 50 hrs a week watching tv

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddon View Post
    Another armchair developer giving yourself credit for something you don't deserve at all...is that the validation you truly seek? Hm.

    But yeah delays are a good thing, the gaming industry has been releasing half finished games for most of this generation, we've just seen Blizzard release a half finished project with BFA, so hopefully with more time given SL can truly succeed and not repeat the same mistakes

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    Your logic is flawed, the core of the game remains the same so saying that is saying it was always "shit" to you, which to that end why the hell are you here?
    exactly, retail has been shit for along time, im here cuz im a fan of what wow used to be

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    Its good core game if it can piss off the right people.
    lol... ur entitled to ur opinion

  8. #168
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Shadowlands got further delayed to everyone's shock into late Q4.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    To the WoW community,

    I wanted to let you know that we’re delaying the release of Shadowlands to later this year—and while we’re still in the process of determining the right new date to launch, we felt it was important to let you know about this change in plans as soon as we could. This was an incredibly difficult decision for the team, as we’re as eager to get the expansion into your hands as you are to play it—but ultimately, we feel it’s the right decision for the game—and for our players.

    Over the past several months of testing, we’ve made significant progress iterating on and polishing the core features and gameplay of Shadowlands. We’re at a point where the zones, the campaign, the level-up questing experience, and the story we have to tell are essentially ready to share. We’re excited by the Covenants at the heart of the expansion, and it’s been a thrill to see Torghast take shape into a fun new kind of WoW experience, thanks in no small part to your input.

    However, as everything started coming together and we’ve been listening to and building upon your feedback, it’s become clear we need a little more time for additional polish, and to balance and iterate on some interlocking pieces—particularly those related to the endgame. Shadowlands is one of the most intricate expansions we’ve yet created, and while we’ve made great progress, the challenge of tuning the endgame was compounded by the team having to work from home.

    Blizzard has a commitment to quality. We believe Shadowlands will be something special, and we’ve heard from many of you who feel the same. We need this extra time to ensure that Shadowlands lives up to its full potential.

    In the meantime, we’re excited to announce that beginning October 13 we will be releasing the Shadowlands pre-patch, which lays a lot of the groundwork for the expansion and includes our revamped character leveling, new-player experience on Exile’s Reach, and a host of new character customization options. And once we get closer to Shadowlands’ release, you’ll be called upon to defend Azeroth against a resurgence of the Scourge during our pre-launch event.

    Thanks for your support and passion, and for your continued help and feedback as we head toward the finish line.

    We’ll see you in the Shadowlands soon,

    John Hight, Executive Producer of World of Warcraft

    What should be changed and what should be added to make the game better?
    On the bright side, they now have time to remove Torghast completely, before launch...

    Also, maybe I'm blind, but I see no mention of "late Q4"... It could simply be a two week delay, as I read it.
    Last edited by FuxieDK; 2020-10-02 at 06:08 AM.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  9. #169
    I know this won't happen but what I would like to see is the conduit system completely removed and have them focus on class design instead of buffs that every character gets from borrowed power

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Shadowlands got further delayed to everyone's shock into late Q4.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    To the WoW community,

    I wanted to let you know that we’re delaying the release of Shadowlands to later this year—and while we’re still in the process of determining the right new date to launch, we felt it was important to let you know about this change in plans as soon as we could. This was an incredibly difficult decision for the team, as we’re as eager to get the expansion into your hands as you are to play it—but ultimately, we feel it’s the right decision for the game—and for our players.

    Over the past several months of testing, we’ve made significant progress iterating on and polishing the core features and gameplay of Shadowlands. We’re at a point where the zones, the campaign, the level-up questing experience, and the story we have to tell are essentially ready to share. We’re excited by the Covenants at the heart of the expansion, and it’s been a thrill to see Torghast take shape into a fun new kind of WoW experience, thanks in no small part to your input.

    However, as everything started coming together and we’ve been listening to and building upon your feedback, it’s become clear we need a little more time for additional polish, and to balance and iterate on some interlocking pieces—particularly those related to the endgame. Shadowlands is one of the most intricate expansions we’ve yet created, and while we’ve made great progress, the challenge of tuning the endgame was compounded by the team having to work from home.

    Blizzard has a commitment to quality. We believe Shadowlands will be something special, and we’ve heard from many of you who feel the same. We need this extra time to ensure that Shadowlands lives up to its full potential.

    In the meantime, we’re excited to announce that beginning October 13 we will be releasing the Shadowlands pre-patch, which lays a lot of the groundwork for the expansion and includes our revamped character leveling, new-player experience on Exile’s Reach, and a host of new character customization options. And once we get closer to Shadowlands’ release, you’ll be called upon to defend Azeroth against a resurgence of the Scourge during our pre-launch event.

    Thanks for your support and passion, and for your continued help and feedback as we head toward the finish line.

    We’ll see you in the Shadowlands soon,

    John Hight, Executive Producer of World of Warcraft





    What should be changed and what should be added to make the game better? Please avoid posting story-spoilers as this thread focuses on the other aspects of the expansion.



    For me this is what I would have changed:

    Major:
    Easier and less punishing to swap covenants
    Covenants made a more so a RPG/lore and cosmetic choice than PvE/PvP gameplay choice.
    Certain and least-favored abilities like bloated abilities such as hunter's mark removed. Cool looking spells that people want to use but are stuck as a talent [ex. Arcane Supernova, Fire Meteor, Breath of Sindragosa, etc] made baseline and replaced with better talents.
    Influence talents so that we aren't all stuck with the best builds and have builds we can choose from to play.
    Update spell animations that are very old. [Ex. Holy Paladin, Resto Druid, Guardian Druid, etc.].
    Certain specs still need to be reworked further and/or fixed... Survival Hunter, Guardian/Feral Druid, WW, Elemental/Enh, Arcane Mage, etc]
    Fix the bugs. Level 1's in SL can use BFA gear and ROFL'stomp mobs. There's also several bugs in BFA that haven't been fixed where you can collide with doodads and be DC'd.
    Remove more RNG in the game. It's unhealthy for the game.


    Minor:
    More customizations that can be added quickly with photoshop [Hair colors, eye colors, skin colors, etc]
    Add a bit more flair to the login screen. I'm sure at least one of Sindragosa's brood still exists *hint hint*
    Update character's models who are important to the story [Lillian, Rokhan, Ji, Aysa, etc]
    Agreed with everything except the major expansion feature: Covenants should be a gameplay choice besides cosmetics.
    I treat it treat is as an advanced talent tree/prestige levels/endgame char development.

    + White hair for Velf pls.

  11. #171
    I don't want to know about the covenant balance. I think that this is a thing players just have to figrue out. Blizzard should't HAVE to balance everything perfectly, it should only be consistent. E.g., Venthyr stays the best for priest throughout the xpac.

    What i really hate is the maw. Holy crap, I just got the beta, and zone this big with no mount is just abysmal. It doesn't even matter that you can unlock one single mount to run there. But that could very well be unobtainable, or as hard as some mage tower challenges, depending on the tuning.

    I can understand the no flying in new content, but no mount? Come on.

  12. #172
    They just have to finish balancing the classes and it should be fine.

  13. #173
    There will be changes. But probably no time for bigger overhauls. They will have more time to polish and balance things.

    Don't expect covenants switching or stuff like that. In the few weeks they just gotta do bug fixing and balancing, there's no time for "system overhauls".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    I don't want to know about the covenant balance. I think that this is a thing players just have to figrue out. Blizzard should't HAVE to balance everything perfectly, it should only be consistent. E.g., Venthyr stays the best for priest throughout the xpac.

    What i really hate is the maw. Holy crap, I just got the beta, and zone this big with no mount is just abysmal. It doesn't even matter that you can unlock one single mount to run there. But that could very well be unobtainable, or as hard as some mage tower challenges, depending on the tuning.

    I can understand the no flying in new content, but no mount? Come on.
    Well you wont be staying one covenant all of xpac. They clearly stated that they want some balance and if a covenant for whatever reason dominates they will balance stuff and people will be switching.

    It's also fine because switching covenants is easy. It just cannot be done more than once a week. The one thinkg they should look at is if soulbinds cannot be spec specific. So every spec can have the same soulbinds minus spec conduits.

  14. #174
    Q3 2020: July 1 - September 30 Q4 2020: October 1 - December 31

    announcing a Release date before the end of Q3 to bump up the revenue and preorders, then drop the delay right after the quarter ends. The extra bump in revenue gets Q3 looking good.

    Scummy Move if you ask me. seems planned

  15. #175
    Honestly mad props to Blizz for this.

    Anything's better than a BFA 2.0, and the prepatch carries a lot of what's most exciting about SL for me!

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
    Seriously people, don't take vacation for a video game. You're not a child, and this isn't what you should be using your vacation hours on. If you are, you are objectively a child.
    Welcome to 2020. Where have I traveled last year? 4 different countries. This year? fucking nowhere. There are millions of people who have no reason to use their holidays as that will lock them inside their home. I can't travel to my home country as it will lock me in for two weeks there and two weeks when I get back..

    Can you tell me where you use your vacation hours on? Certainly not on character development as calling people "children" over their choice of vacation is very... childish... so you are as mature as 12 yo kids calling other people "kids". And saying that "objectively", does not seem that you know what that means.
    Projecting your "maturity" on others is very infantile, does not matter how rich your vocabulary is.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by ReleaseDay View Post
    People are just speculating as to why the delay, but none really no for sure..
    Many know if they've played the beta, which I have. The leveling isn't quite right you hit 58-59 by the time you finish doing all side/main quests. Some of the covenants are still broken/not changed yet (like the pally changes, they're still not up yet). The MAW is bearbones, a central end-game area and it literally has NOTHING.
    Every thread is like entering an LFR with 5 stacks of determination. -Compstance

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Dead game is dead. Never in a million years thought I would ever make a post like this. It is amazing what a year away from the game does for perspective.
    Nice meme bud.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by swashbuckle View Post
    I know this won't happen but what I would like to see is the conduit system completely removed and have them focus on class design instead of buffs that every character gets from borrowed power
    I see this critisism all the time and my conclusion is that its basically parroting as it holds no water.

    Borrowed power is the best solution as the ltger alternative have failed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HitPoint View Post
    Many know if they've played the beta, which I have. The leveling isn't quite right you hit 58-59 by the time you finish doing all side/main quests. Some of the covenants are still broken/not changed yet (like the pally changes, they're still not up yet). The MAW is bearbones, a central end-game area and it literally has NOTHING.
    Maybe the whole point of the maw is that its supposed to be a barren wasteland which os dangerous, scary and not much to do. And then it evolves over time.

    Your premise is that it should be like Mechagon. Thats not a rule they must follow. We dont know their intention of the zone.

  20. #180
    Fluffy Kitten Malefic's Avatar
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    I will preface this by saying it’s possible that the delay is simply due to the large amount of bugs and balancing that is required, the line “…iterate on some interlocking pieces – particularly those related to the endgame” from the announcement leads me to believe there is some core system issues they want to resolve/improve however. Here are 4 examples of systems that I think need improvements for Shadowlands to look better, and even though I believe in #PullTheRipcord, none of my suggestions involve that.

    Furthermore, these are just my opinions. I've spent a lot of time with the content on beta over many months, but I accept that I play the game differently to everyone else.

    Renown – Renown is a currency you earn each week, earning 2 of, each renown you earn will unlock something. Increased iLvl of World Quest rewards, a new Soulbind, a new row on Soulbinds, a Mount, many other things, the full list of rewards can be found here: https://www.wowhead.com/guides/kyria...ds-shadowlands (I’ve used Kyrian as an example, but the rewards are the same for over covenants just each one is tailored to that covenant).

    One of the major issues with Renown is it creates a situation where you covenant choice does not pay off when you make it. Ignoring power, we’re looking at a situation where players may choose a covenant for a reason that they can’t explore within that covenant for several weeks, for example Path of Ascension which you can’t fully progress until Week 18. From a power perspective (even though I’m aware many players hate the idea of players making choices for power) there’s a situation that’s arisen where being in 1 covenant is better on Day 1 due to the availability of Soulbinds, then there is a point where being in another covenant is better because of another Soulbind unlocking, and then another. We have a situation where even without tuning or changing any numerical values which covenant you want to be in changes for many classes over the 20-week period of Renown unlocks, some of these jumps in DPS are notable too.

    I think Renown and the way it interacts with Soulbinds specifically needs to be looked at and addressed, with a focus on all 3 Soulbinds of each covenant being treated as 1 instance of reward, rather than staggered progression of Soulbinds. A replacement for these rewards could be Maw based stuff (I touch on it later on).

    Mythic+ - With the removal of Warforging and Titanforging, Mythic+ has been left in an interesting position. It cannot award heroic iLvl or better loot otherwise it will diminish raid progression and enabling trading early on – something Blizzard don’t want. Furthermore, the replay ability and accessibility of Mythic+ means it should be less rewarding than Heroic raiding. Not because of any difficulty reasons, but simply because with raiding you get 1 opportunity at each boss each week, with Mythic+ nothing stops me from running the same dungeon 5 or 10 times a day attempting to get that piece of loot I need.

    Mythic+ is going to have severe struggles with being viewed as an alternative to end-game raiding, whilst it will still be able to be as geared as raiders due to the Grand Vault, you’re now looking at months to get gear that some raiders will get in a few weeks. No amount of extra farming of Mythic+ will enable players to get higher iLvl gear.

    I think Mythic+ loot needs addressing, and I think it’s time some loot that dropped from Mythic+ started having Mythic+ based benefits. The covenant perks for each of the dungeons are a cool thematic and idea, I would like to see them baked in to gear that specifically drops from Mythic+. A trinket that enables you to interact with an element of the dungeon and increase your damage in that dungeon for example. There are a ton of things Blizzard could do, but the thing they can’t do is increased the iLvl reward. I would like to see Blizzard consider adding sets to Mythic+ that give dungeon benefits or utilize thematic slots such as rings + trinkets to get some flavour/benefits to specific dungeons.

    PvP – Specifically, World PvP. PvP scaling in general needs to go. Many of us have seen the Rextroy videos and whilst those are one player spending large amounts of time taking advantage of the system to the point most scenarios won’t present themselves in the real world, PvP scaling is simply a flawed idea in an MMO where character progression is important. Furthermore, it was shown improving your gear in some instances lowered your healing or damage.

    In a world where you’re building a character and progressing it, ultimately that progression should be meaningful. PvP Scaling was a band-aid fix to a problem of mass player power scaling over the course of an expansion. With that said, if your character is level 58 in questing greens you absolutely should get crushed by the level 60 in raid gear. Especially in a world where players have the opportunity to completely remove themselves from being PvP eligible.

    The desire to push your character to it’s limits and fill out it’s slots with very strong gear diminishes with this consistent Season/reset approach Blizzard keep implementing. Where the ceiling and floor are raised every tier to the point that if you miss an entire tier you can still log on and be at the same spot as players that played that entire tier within a week.

    I would like to see PvP scaling removed simply put. Your gear and character progression should matter and PvP scaling removes the sense of progression, and in some cases as it was proven over BfA actually makes progressing your character something where your character is weaker.

    The Maw – The maw had purpose early on in Shadowlands, it was used to farm currency to improve your Torghast runs as well as gain access to Torghast. During development this requirement for access was removed, and the currency was also added as a reward to Torghast itself. Meaning other than your weekly quests, you didn’t have much reason to go to the Maw. You basically went to the Maw, to go to Torghast.

    Recently sockets were added to the vendor with this currency, as well as what appears to be an alternative method of upgrading and acquiring conduits, or potentially a catch-up system. This now gives the Maw purpose, but it’s nothing meaningful. Your Maw experience is to now go there every day, spend the 45 minutes ish it will take you to trigger the Jailer Level 5, obtain as much of this currency as possible and then leave. It’s a monotonous grind at best.

    Furthermore, the currency required to obtain those is the currency that competes with you upgrading your Torghast runs. Meaning you’re put in to a situation of choosing to upgrade ‘Fun’ or upgrade ‘Power’, a situation I don’t think Blizzard should put players in.

    I would like to see the Maw given more purpose and being fleshed out – Torghast upgrades should be obtained in a different way to socket/conduit upgrades currency wise. I don’t have suggestions for how the Maw could be improved, but it needs to be. Currently it feels way to barren and little to do and the only time you spend in there is a tedious miniature grind until the game forces you to leave again. I think adding Maw based benefits to Renown in replacement of some of the Soulbind stuff is an interesting idea.

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