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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by MatPandaZ View Post
    Does that not suggest they may push past a 2020 release and into 2021?
    ...and what if it does? Is getting a good game so unimportant?

    Delaying to get a better game is the right choice.
    The impatient ones are welcome to check out since they come and go with the wind anyways.

    With that said, i very much doubt it won't release early december the latest.

  2. #302
    But if I get a refund for SL, then I cannot play SL. I'm not following the refund logic.

  3. #303
    The Lightbringer gutnbrg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khazmodan View Post
    No, but you should be questioning your life choices when you watch a WoW stream instead of watching an edited video on youtube with only the highlights.
    or i could win a free copy of SL while watching a stream and getting paid at the same time at work...lol foh

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    In the US, the "average" is $27/hour, so not a HUGE gap, but i certainly appreciate this is absolutely NOT the case in other parts of the world.
    Not even close. The average hourly pay between August 2019 and August 2020 was $11.35/hour.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ees-in-the-us/
    Last edited by MrMatticus; 2020-10-06 at 08:02 AM.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMatticus View Post
    Not even close. The average hourly pay between August 2019 and August 2020 was $11.35/hour.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ees-in-the-us/
    You really don't seem to understand what you are linking - or what I said, even though I put the important part in quotations. Cherry picking one piece of data you THINK supports your argument, without any understanding of what you are actually linking, doesn't do your argument any justice.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Oh I see, you are just confusing average with median. A simple mistake, not a big deal.

    For the record, last I looked the median wage was around $15usd/hour
    Then again, the post you quoted originally was about "normal income" (if I recall correctly), and median is actually better in describing that.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by facefist View Post
    Then again, the post you quoted originally was about "normal income" (if I recall correctly), and median is actually better in describing that.
    Yup, which I mentioned in a later post, and, is the exact reason I put put "average" in quotations.

    As I pointed out, the devil is in the details. Some are wage only, some salary, some wage and salary, some average, some mean, some median. So people for whatever reason will Google it, ignore all the links that don't support their argument, and link the one they like, without understanding what they are linking.

    It's really not a big deal, I don't care, I'm not american and in quite comfortable with what I earn myself, so....meh.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2020-10-06 at 09:17 AM.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    No it isn't stop playing internet lawyer.
    1) I will be what I want to be.

    2) One does not need to be a lawyer to apply basic logic. The Pre-Order is a binding contract, we agree to pay money, Blizzard agrees to deliver a product at or before a certain date, basic classification of a contract. This date was December 31st. This date is the contractually binding one because it is part of the contract. Their later announced release date was not part of any contract.

    Ergo, the deadline is the 31st of December and the delay has as of yet not touched that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Blizzard could post tomorrow that they are going to scrap SL and as long as they allow refunds (and they do) they are legally protected. But by all means try to go after them over this, That would be amusing to see.
    1) I have no intention to sue or even refund and never said I did. I was just explaining that the 27th of October is NOT the deadline.

    2) You are actually right. As long as full refunds are issued there is no problem from a legal side. The Public Relations side however is quite a different story. If they suddenly announce they are scrapping the expansion and will make a new one to launch 2022 and issue refunds for SLs, that is fine from a legal point, but people will then unsub and move on, because no one will stay subbed 2 more years without new content. The PR and financial backlash would be by far more threatening then the legal one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    This isn't the first time a game is delayed, They are not contracted to shit, stop trying to be a internet lawyer.
    1) You are repeating yourself

    2) You are so wrong it hurts. Buying ANYTHING constitues a legally binding contract as long as you are of age and not mentally diabled, in which case your parents/guardians enter the contract for you and it is only binding if they accept it (there are exceptions to this rule).

    Even buying a bloody bubble gum means you have entered a contract. So yes, Blizzard is absolutely contracted to shit. They are contracted to deliver the game until the 31st of December. If they do not, then you as the buyer have the right to nullify the contract and demand your money back. Basically refunding. Refunding means annulling the contract. Quite simple really.

    Of course you cannot sue them for not releasing a game, this is reserved for things where not having the article at the deadline causes you physical and or financial harm. Probably difficult to find a lawyer that can spin that.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    You really don't seem to understand what you are linking - or what I said, even though I put the important part in quotations. Cherry picking one piece of data you THINK supports your argument, without any understanding of what you are actually linking, doesn't do your argument any justice.
    There's no cherry picking here. You're just wrong.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    ...and what if it does? Is getting a good game so unimportant?

    Delaying to get a better game is the right choice.
    The impatient ones are welcome to check out since they come and go with the wind anyways.

    With that said, i very much doubt it won't release early december the latest.
    If it does then it is what it is. I just like to have my expectations managed. Just as when I have to delay a client I like to give a rough idea. I think you are right though, we will get it sometime in December where it can slot in without too much problems from Christmas.

  11. #311
    Please don't refund. We should be applauding them for choosing not to release a buggy product.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by MatPandaZ View Post
    If it does then it is what it is. I just like to have my expectations managed. Just as when I have to delay a client I like to give a rough idea. I think you are right though, we will get it sometime in December where it can slot in without too much problems from Christmas.
    Actually every date in December after the 1st is problematic (unless they are delaying the raid until early January 2021). The current idea was that the raid will open 2 weeks after launch and 1 week later Mythic opens, meaning the WF Race starts. They will not want to have that overlap with Christmas. Even if the launch is on the 1st then Mythic opens on the 22nd, very impractical.

    No, I think if they want to stick to a release this year (and I am relatively sure they will, announcing a second delay would be rather painful for them) it will have to be in November. That would give them about another month for polishing stuff and minor changes, which is all that they want to do. There are not going to be extreme redesigns.

  13. #313
    Most of you here assume that people are refunding only because of the delay, and that's probably not even the case. I don't care about the delay, in fact, I think that's the right thing to do. I just don't like the direction they are going with covenants, legendaries and borrowed power in general.

    I shouldn't have preordered in the first place, I agree. That's my fault. I was hyped as hell. Now I'm not. If I get a refund, that's ok. If not, that's ok too. My bad for preordering. Lesson learned. But I think there is no need to get that mad for people asking for a refund.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by sykoex View Post
    Please don't refund. We should be applauding them for choosing not to release a buggy product.
    I don't think they deserve an applause either even though this is for the better. Giving a wrong release date is not something to be proud of.

    They gave the release date exceptionally late this time around yet still failed to give a date on which the product is finished. They should know better IMO and if they were unsure, why not just push the announcement further.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by BigToast View Post
    But if I get a refund for SL, then I cannot play SL. I'm not following the refund logic.
    Yeah, Same here.

    If any one out there wants refunds.. did they even want to play SL at all?

  16. #316
    I bought the epic edition after the Blizzcon hype and had it refunded last week.
    I will buy the normal edition instead once we have a launch date and save myself some money

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    ...
    Yeah it was, when I bought it. But the Release Date was 'updated' and maybe I'm seeing this too negative or I'm just 'damaged' from my job. If I'd promise my customer that I'm finished earlier and I can't hold it due to bugs, they will get really, really mad.

    From the bug perspective. The game is really unplayable right now. I'm testing on beta or at least I'm trying. I'm not playing too much because I don't want to spoiler myself, but when I do 4 quests a day, one of them is so bugged I can't finish them. My warrior just stops having animations for some abilities at some point.

    I'm complaining about blizzards quality assurance because I've worked in multiple jobs in Development and I don't know what changed with Legion, but the quality of the code started heavily decreasing. There are now bugs that are a sign for lazy developers. It was even more in BfA and SL is now unshippable.

    As an example what I mean:

    Bug Report: "Npc doesn't spawn when entering his area from south"
    So a lazy (or maybe not lazy, just younger and inexperienced) developer will now just add a new trigger at south and the ticket is solved. Good work!
    But a good developer would check what about west/north/east and would ask himself: 'Why doesn't the area trigger the spawn? I need to recreate that area.'

    If developing is your job you might get a feeling for stuff like this and you know there is multiple positions that could prevent these kind of lazy bugfixes and one is QA. QA might even be the most important one in this case.

    So yeah, what ever comes after Shadowlands will be even worse, because the high quality code base the old blizzard left will be completely destroyed by the new generation of activisions developers.

    I'm concerned because Shadowlands will not be 'awesome due to delay'. It's not some wine that gets better over time. Shadowlands will only be closer to being shippable. The moment Shadowlands will be playbale enough they gonna release it and balancing won't even be considered in this.
    It's just about not having enough bugs to stop the people from playing.

    If I would care about competition I wouldn't even consider buying SL, but I'm more interested in new features, playing a rpg and the story and as bad as the code quality is.. the other things are good (enough) for me!

  18. #318
    I don't need a refund. Because I didn't pre-order.

    Who the fuck pre-orders digital items? Are you afraid they'll run out?

  19. #319
    Herald of the Titans Ratyrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Actually every date in December after the 1st is problematic (unless they are delaying the raid until early January 2021). The current idea was that the raid will open 2 weeks after launch and 1 week later Mythic opens, meaning the WF Race starts. They will not want to have that overlap with Christmas. Even if the launch is on the 1st then Mythic opens on the 22nd, very impractical.

    No, I think if they want to stick to a release this year (and I am relatively sure they will, announcing a second delay would be rather painful for them) it will have to be in November. That would give them about another month for polishing stuff and minor changes, which is all that they want to do. There are not going to be extreme redesigns.
    No reason they can't move the raid opening date into January though. There's no rule that says they have to open two-three weeks after expansion launch.

  20. #320
    Dreadlord BreathTaker's Avatar
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    This game would be better off those people who would refund preorder due to reasonable delay.
    Let them go.

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