Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
LastLast
  1. #121
    When i heard the first lore speculations for the rise of N'Zoth i really hoped that we would just loose against N'Zoth resulting in the world to be overtaken or destroyd allowing the dev team to kind of restart WoW.

    Then i imagined we would start as new characters in the next expansion trying to survive in this world consumed by the void. No more heroes but people trying to pick up the remainings of theire crushed society.

    I would love to again feel like a random guy exploring a world, that is dangerous and much bigger than myself.
    Right now our characters are (at least when we come together as a group) pretty much all-mighty beeings.

    Killing our Characters and throwing them into the shadowlands would have been another opportunity to reset the powerlevel. But as much as i understand it right now, we are not getting in the shadowlands by dying but we travel there somehow. Which means that our powerlevel will probably just spiral up even further.

    I was really exited for the opportunity that destroying azeroth could have had

    I would like the story to take unconventional and extreme twists. I don't care if they kill our characters or whatever. Just do something new.
    Last edited by Fion; 2020-10-06 at 01:46 PM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    I love FFXIV and all, but its approach to storytelling is VASTLY different than WoW's Because of that, I think treating the player as a "Champion" or "Hero" of their given faction can often times feel very frustrating.

    Now, when I say "players should be treated as Adventurers", what I really mean is that we should be treated as random mercenaries. That's not to say main characters dislike us or anything, but our involvement in our factions should be something that is largely left to our own devices. If I am a Dwarf, it might be IMPLIED that I serve Ironforge and by extension the Alliance (thus justifying the opposing faction treating you with hostility), as an "Adventurer", you would function largely outside of it. You are not a soldier, you did not sign-up for the army, you are an adventurer whose goals are your own to define.

    This serves two purposes:

    First, it makes it more believable that NPC's of the "opposing faction" would be willing to work with you. If the President of the US launched a nuke at China, then it is unlikely a Chinese General would be willing to work with an American General. However, some random American bounty-hunter or something? Possibly. Case in point; it wouldn't make sense of Tyrande to work with a "Champion of the Horde" who could've prevented the burning of Teldrassil. Some random mercenary who couldn't have stopped it even if he wanted? Far more plausible.

    Second, it gives Blizzard the freedom to make more bold decisions on behalf of the factions at play. Sylvanas burning Teldrassil pissed a lot of Horde players off, too because as Warchief of the Horde, they were also culpable for her actions. As Adventurers who were simply "paid to be there, in case they were needed", players would have the freedom to condemn Sylvanas, without feeling like there characters are obliged to follow her blindly.

    It may seem a minor point to stress, but I truly think this distinction between "Champion" and "Adventurer" would just really absolve a lot of the ongoing issues with WoW's storytelling, and how it often affects players and their characters.
    Bit late dude.

    I've killed 3 old gods, a super fire dragon, both Lords of the burning legion (one of them twice), the Lich King, illidan, guldan, cenarius and other wild "gods" oh and also a freaking titan of death....

    At this point if some punk ass npc called me "Adventurer" I'd plant them

  3. #123
    Herald of the Titans Maruka's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    2,554
    I agree and i hope they fix it after Shadowlands, they have a really good chance to correct it all.

    Firstly they can do a massive time skip, to the point that horde and alliance dont even exist anymore and they can delete the factions and have everyone on the same faction. Secondly all the current characters are pretty much dead and our characters have been long forgotten and are just legends of the past. The story can be smaller in scale and more intimate.

  4. #124
    "You're the sole savior of Azeroth! Pay no mind as I tell that shadow priest next to you the same thing..."

    It's not the best thing for any level of immersion, but that ship has already kind of sailed.

  5. #125
    Our status do not ”Reset” each expansion.

    So your character have more feats of strength than most faction leaders.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Except that we didn't betray Sylvanas. Everythign we did, we kept Sylvanas apprised of and in more than a few instances to go along with it and report back to her. Sylvanas had no reason to imprision us as we were following her orders.
    I recall helping Baine steal Jaina's brother and telling no one. Well maybe as a loyalist, but I didn't tell her... or am I recalling this incorrectly? That undead guy got shot for it, Baine imprisoned and we...?

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    I recall helping Baine steal Jaina's brother and telling no one. Well maybe as a loyalist, but I didn't tell her... or am I recalling this incorrectly? That undead guy got shot for it, Baine imprisoned and we...?
    As a loyalist. Everything you went through, you told Sylvanas about and she told you to go through with it

  8. #128
    The Lightbringer msdos's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    3,040
    Lowly adventurers... Who can be in any Covenant they see fit at any time, swap all their stuff before any boss, do anything, have all the freedom and power options in the world!
    Yes, sounds very appropriate for common rag tag adventurers, lulll!!!!

  9. #129
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    10,842
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    We always have some item that gives us all our power. And we very often always lose it. So at the end of the day while we do inherently amazing feats, the fact is we didn't really kill Deathwing, we didn't kill the Lich King. So what's the point in being the hero when we're really just the sidekicks to the people with the true power? Borrowed power is boring from a lore perspective if it's a constant.
    Borrowed power had secured a solid place in lore much before it became a thing gameplay-wise. As you correctly pointed out, we wouldn't have killed the LK or DW hadn't it been for Tirion deus ex Fordring or Thrall Sue respectively. We would have gone nowhere in WoD if Grom hadn't changed colours in a utterly unrealistic, cringey af move. The Legion would have crushed us if it wasn't for those OP af artifacts, ditto for BfA, where the only way to actually kill (to the extent he can actually be killed, which is another matter entirely) Tentacle Boi was kamehameha'ing through our necklace.

    It's getting really old at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    Lowly adventurers... Who can be in any Covenant they see fit at any time, swap all their stuff before any boss, do anything, have all the freedom and power options in the world!
    Yes, sounds very appropriate for common rag tag adventurers, lulll!!!!
    I think you are purposefully confusing lore with gameplay mechanics

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Our status do not ”Reset” each expansion.

    So your character have more feats of strength than most faction leaders.
    And exactly 0 political influence, especially if you are Alliance. It's EXTREMELY jarring.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  10. #130
    The Lightbringer msdos's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    3,040
    "I think you are purposefully confusing lore with gameplay mechanics"

    So then we switch Covenants outside the game? I'm confused. You still talk to the Covenant leaders and your character opens dialogue with them, so no, there is no confusion. Your character is granted the powers from other in game characters, absolutely zero confusion here.

    Looks like someone is trying to insert words in someone's mouth.
    Last edited by msdos; 2020-10-06 at 08:38 PM.

  11. #131
    I vastly prefer the idea of my character being treated as a powerful adventurer rather than one of the most important individuals in the setting. The latter works far better in single player games and it's a real shame that many MMO's have moved away from that model. Even in single player games, it's a boring ego stroking session in many cases.

  12. #132
    As many have already mentioned, that ship has sailed long ago.
    I personally loved it when vol'jin called me general in WoD. It felt like i was progressing in rank. But ever since legion we have been "THE ONE".

    I started taking myself out of the picture when i think about the story and lore nowadays. I started considering the NPCs joining us on our adventure the heroes of that story. Khadgar led the expedition to WoD, the allied forces of the order halls were the ones that stopped the legion invasion, Illidan led the forces in argus, Wrathion was front and center in the battle with N'zoth. The game always find a way to take away the NPCs from the fight which is understandable as it is a game afterall. But i can also do that in reverse and make it part of THEIR story arcs.

    Another way that supports my head canon would be when we had to sap away the energy from the giant sword. I was there representing my order hall, while other NPCs from the rest of the order halls were there holding the powerful artifact weapons. So i can also remove myself from that equation, or just think of myself as a high ranking member of the order hall

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    Lowly adventurers... Who can be in any Covenant they see fit at any time, swap all their stuff before any boss, do anything, have all the freedom and power options in the world!
    Yes, sounds very appropriate for common rag tag adventurers, lulll!!!!
    Do we have these options? We have next to no agency in regards to story, the bitch-boy/rebell split was the first time we ever could actually chose anything at all and obviously it had zero impact on anything. And as far as powers go, we are confined in arbitary class corsettes as the only people in the whole wide world. I can't even wear a set of leather pants for shits and giggles as a priest, let alone boots! What kind of affliction is that? That's some hardcore curse for sure. The existence of players is kind of a joke if we are honest. It's highly inconsistent at the best of times and downright insulting the rest. Like how any of the "evil" aligned classes would have suffered through Nathanos for a whole campaign is a mystery for the ages, my DK would have torn him to shreds with undead minions and decorated the Queen's Vengence with his guts; if we had any agency that is.
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2020-10-06 at 09:47 PM.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  14. #134
    Brewmaster Fayenoor's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Land of Far Beyond
    Posts
    1,315
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Bit late dude.

    I've killed 3 old gods, a super fire dragon, both Lords of the burning legion (one of them twice), the Lich King, illidan, guldan, cenarius and other wild "gods" oh and also a freaking titan of death....

    At this point if some punk ass npc called me "Adventurer" I'd plant them
    Yup. But the NPC is still going to send you to collect bat guano and get away with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The main function of Mythic mode for most players is to act as a reminder that, compared to that 1%, they suck.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Fayenoor View Post
    Yup. But the NPC is still going to send you to collect bat guano and get away with it.
    Ahhh The old adventurer service quests that seem to pop up each expansion yet haven't made much sense since classic because of either your status or the situation.

    Tbc - ahh strange invader from another world fetch me some animal hair.

    Wrath - we must fight an epic war vs the lich King and his evil undead or the world is doomed but whilst your about get me some tusks from them mammoths.

    Cata - the whole worlds doomed,the earth pillar broken but I need some flowers for my soup so be a good slayer of the lich King and fetch me some.

    Mop - fucking pandas

    Wod - tbc again

    Legion- worlds ending, legions invading all is lost but damn it make me some wine, I don't care if you used you boots to kick archimond in the face I need wine!!

    Bfa - oh great champion of azurite who's defeated countless gods and demi gods and who we depend on to win this war and save azeroth from bleeding to death fetch me some meat for dinner....

    Those quests are just....annoying and increasingly out of place.

    Its like an intern asking some one high up in company to make the office coffee.

  16. #136
    Dreadlord Wolfrick's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    ITALY, Tarren Mill
    Posts
    830
    I agree with you 100%... this feels so out of place.

    And if not make it like that for everyone, make it choice... so that the Quest text changes to reflect if you are an Adventurer or a Champion!
    -

    One Learns most when Teaching others!

  17. #137
    You can still be an adventurer ! you just have to stop playing the story and keep killing boars,gnoles and kobolds, the moment you start slaying big dragons,liches and old gods ! you are no longer a simple adventurer >.>
    One elements RPGs have is that the character you play (regardless the game) will gain renown the more heroic acts he does! what you want is to stay a nobody! well then RPG games arent for you mate (and possible no other gender of game).

  18. #138
    To me, casting the player as "just some guy" means that ultimately the really good stuff, all the story and the cool fights....don't happen to me the player, they happen off screen.

    It would mean the quests are generic and story-less, all the important story characters (be they heroes or villains) do stuff off screen...stuff that doesn't involve the player.

    Seems really silly to me. Ultimately, I always argue that in an MMO your character is always the player character, while the character of other people, even if you see them on screen, are non player characters (Because they're not playing your session of WoW...you are!).

    Arguing that it's silly to do stuff because other people do too....well dur, that's the case for every game. If you play a game like street fighter 2, you don't worry that somebody else played it too...you just enjoy the game.
    You must show no mercy, Nor have any belief whatsoever in how others judge you: For your greatness will silence them all!
    -Warrior Wisdom

  19. #139
    That's all perfectly fine and i don't say there shouldn't be progression. But the thing is that there is no progression left to do. I'am just saying, that i would find it refreshing to have some kind of reset (the world gets destroyed or we die or something) so we can step up the ladder again over two or three expansions. It wouldn't be a permanent fix for the problem but i would like it anyway.

  20. #140
    "Now is the time to show them why your name echos in history"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •