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  1. #1

    Is RNG within RNG and waiting like a tool still a thing in SL?

    This is basically a rageout over Mecha-Done and Undersea Usurper but was curious if this kind of implementation is carried over in SL.

    Basically if waiting for hours for a mob to spawn to have a shot at completing some requirements is still their idea of creating "lasting content"

    To be more specific if anyone cares .. I'm currently over a month mark of farming everything that has a chance to drop that last damn vinyl for Mecha-Done and at several days of farming Algans and Packmother for the Rares part of Undersea Usurper.

    At this point it feels like the Insane grind was better because everytime you farmed a bit, you actually made some progress where as on these, spending 3 hours can net you nothing.

  2. #2
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    This is kind of hilarious, because you're angrily complaining about one of the foundations of MMORPG design (camping mobs for a random drop), as it if was some new and crooked thing the WoW team put in to spite you in BfA.

    You're trying to get an achievement you've decided you want. No-one is making you. Nothing you get from it is going to make your character stronger. I'm not aware of any similar achievements in SL, but equally, there weren't many (any?) similar achievements in BfA before Mechagon and Nazjatar were added. So I wouldn't be shocked if SL added achievements like this.

    Because it's just an achievement, there's essentially nothing wrong with this design, though. Also, claiming this as "RNG within RNG" is completely misusing the term. This is just camping mobs and hoping for a drop. You wouldn't have lasted a day in EverQuest, I note, if you think this is bad.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    This is kind of hilarious, because you're angrily complaining about one of the foundations of MMORPG design (camping mobs for a random drop), as it if was some new and crooked thing the WoW team put in to spite you in BfA.

    You're trying to get an achievement you've decided you want. No-one is making you. Nothing you get from it is going to make your character stronger. I'm not aware of any similar achievements in SL, but equally, there weren't many (any?) similar achievements in BfA before Mechagon and Nazjatar were added. So I wouldn't be shocked if SL added achievements like this.

    Because it's just an achievement, there's essentially nothing wrong with this design, though. Also, claiming this as "RNG within RNG" is completely misusing the term. This is just camping mobs and hoping for a drop. You wouldn't have lasted a day in EverQuest, I note, if you think this is bad.
    He is complaining about the achievements design, which is completely valid at that. And what does a different game have to do with anything?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    This is kind of hilarious, because you're angrily complaining about one of the foundations of MMORPG design (camping mobs for a random drop), as it if was some new and crooked thing the WoW team put in to spite you in BfA.

    You're trying to get an achievement you've decided you want. No-one is making you. Nothing you get from it is going to make your character stronger. I'm not aware of any similar achievements in SL, but equally, there weren't many (any?) similar achievements in BfA before Mechagon and Nazjatar were added. So I wouldn't be shocked if SL added achievements like this.

    Because it's just an achievement, there's essentially nothing wrong with this design, though. Also, claiming this as "RNG within RNG" is completely misusing the term. This is just camping mobs and hoping for a drop. You wouldn't have lasted a day in EverQuest, I note, if you think this is bad.
    It's 2020, we have technology to produce content that is more challenging than "wait around for something to happen". I have better things to do than NOT play the game I want to play. How about you?

    #MakeSkillMatterAgain

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    It's 2020, we have technology to produce content that is more challenging than "wait around for something to happen". I have better things to do than NOT play the game I want to play. How about you?

    #MakeSkillMatterAgain
    There is content that requires skill and content that doesn't. If you want skill to matter, then the content that doesn't require skill is not made for you.

    I personally care only about the hard content that is skill based. Therefore I don't collect mounts or achievements or other stuff that is only based on grind. And thus I don't care whether they take a week or a year to grind.
    Last edited by facefist; 2020-10-05 at 11:21 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by facefist View Post
    There is content that requires skill and content that doesn't. If you want skill to matter, then the content that doesn't require skill is not made for you.

    I personally care only about the hard content that is skill based. Therefore I don't collect mounts or achievements or other stuff that is only based on grind. And thus I don't care whether they take a week or a year to grind.
    Achievements should be about achieving something.

    I'm super confused that you seem to think AFK'ing around a spawn in any way is achieving anything.

  7. #7
    It could always be worse. Imagine if they made it a world quest like Sabertron Assemble, where you could go an entire calendar year without seeing a specific colour Good luck if you missed it that one time it was up.

    But yeah, it's lazy design. There's other ways to make it a lot more interesting than just sitting around waiting for a spawn, but they require effort, so just up the spawn timer & let the completionists waste some time. This is one of the reasons I never bothered with Nazjatar & Mechagon metas.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    This is kind of hilarious, because you're angrily complaining about one of the foundations of MMORPG design (camping mobs for a random drop), as it if was some new and crooked thing the WoW team put in to spite you in BfA.

    You're trying to get an achievement you've decided you want. No-one is making you. Nothing you get from it is going to make your character stronger. I'm not aware of any similar achievements in SL, but equally, there weren't many (any?) similar achievements in BfA before Mechagon and Nazjatar were added. So I wouldn't be shocked if SL added achievements like this.

    Because it's just an achievement, there's essentially nothing wrong with this design, though. Also, claiming this as "RNG within RNG" is completely misusing the term. This is just camping mobs and hoping for a drop. You wouldn't have lasted a day in EverQuest, I note, if you think this is bad.
    Bullshit. The only acceptable form of RNG is loot RNG, as in, you kill a mob which is in large quantity and respawns very fast in a grind area and hope it drops something you want. The foundation of MMORPG is grind - you kill stuff and see progress happen - see examples: Tibia, Silkroad Online, Metin2, MU Online, all those once wildly popular games. WoW was like that once as well, only later they started going deeper down the bullshit RNG hole in Legion and BFA when they introduced absolutely dogshit fucking crap mechanics like RNGdaries or RNGorruptions or timegated shit like essences where you can't just grind them out and be done with it, but are gated with weekly bullshit.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    Achievements should be about achieving something.

    I'm super confused that you seem to think AFK'ing around a spawn in any way is achieving anything.
    It's an achievement in patience, something many people today are sorely lacking.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by awadh View Post
    Bullshit. The only acceptable form of RNG is loot RNG
    But that's pretty much exactly what the OP is complaining about. And i disagree with the fast respawns.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's an achievement in patience, something many people today are sorely lacking.
    Yeah when I spend hours sitting there watching for a rare to spawn time & time again to finally get it after a few days of farming I think to myself "holy shit, I really achieved something!"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    This is kind of hilarious, because you're angrily complaining about one of the foundations of MMORPG design (camping mobs for a random drop), as it if was some new and crooked thing the WoW team put in to spite you in BfA.

    You're trying to get an achievement you've decided you want. No-one is making you. Nothing you get from it is going to make your character stronger. I'm not aware of any similar achievements in SL, but equally, there weren't many (any?) similar achievements in BfA before Mechagon and Nazjatar were added. So I wouldn't be shocked if SL added achievements like this.

    Because it's just an achievement, there's essentially nothing wrong with this design, though. Also, claiming this as "RNG within RNG" is completely misusing the term. This is just camping mobs and hoping for a drop. You wouldn't have lasted a day in EverQuest, I note, if you think this is bad.
    Take for example some of the checklists of mechagon. You have be in a day where the construction event is going on, then you have to wait for the chance for the specific construction to be up for the rare you need, then from that rare you have a chance to get an item needed for the achievement. That's pretty mich rng in rng.

    Wouldn't have minded some farming .. but seriously ... standing still like and idiot for hours, how can that be called gameplay.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    Achievements should be about achieving something.

    I'm super confused that you seem to think AFK'ing around a spawn in any way is achieving anything.
    It is achieving something - you seem to be confused with the term. Achievement doesn't mean that you've done something impressive or difficult.

    I'm super confused that with your logic you seem to think that anything inside a video game is achieving something. It's a game, so why have achievements at all?

  13. #13
    There is no need to defend bad game design, such OP describes.
    More active gameplay and less afk rng gameplay please.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    Achievements should be about achieving something.

    I'm super confused that you seem to think AFK'ing around a spawn in any way is achieving anything.
    That is the achivment. Just beacuse you don't like it doesn't change it.

    Patience is a virtue and so on.

    There are achivment for literally EVERY activity in this game. That there are some very tedious ones is a given.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    This is basically a rageout over Mecha-Done and Undersea Usurper but was curious if this kind of implementation is carried over in SL.

    Basically if waiting for hours for a mob to spawn to have a shot at completing some requirements is still their idea of creating "lasting content"

    To be more specific if anyone cares .. I'm currently over a month mark of farming everything that has a chance to drop that last damn vinyl for Mecha-Done and at several days of farming Algans and Packmother for the Rares part of Undersea Usurper.

    At this point it feels like the Insane grind was better because everytime you farmed a bit, you actually made some progress where as on these, spending 3 hours can net you nothing.
    RNG within RNG was definitely a thing in BFA, especially where you mention. Things like using a scrying stone to have a small percentage chance to summon a Sand Castle and then a small percentage chance he drops his rare pet. And farming Mollie will be a blast.. once every 6 or so weeks it will be up and also a rare drop, that's not RNG in RNG but it is a pita farm.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Take for example some of the checklists of mechagon. You have be in a day where the construction event is going on, then you have to wait for the chance for the specific construction to be up for the rare you need, then from that rare you have a chance to get an item needed for the achievement. That's pretty mich rng in rng.

    Wouldn't have minded some farming .. but seriously ... standing still like and idiot for hours, how can that be called gameplay.
    I mean it will always exist to some extent as annoying as I find. That said it is restricted to cosmetics so... I dont know that isn't a deal breaker for me but everyone is different.

  17. #17
    If camping rare spawns is an unpleasant experience for you don't camp rare spawns.

  18. #18
    This topic has been discussed recently and, as with most debates among a diverse playerbase, there is no agreement.

    Some players prefer content/achievements that reward skill only. Some others prefer achievements where patience is rewarded. IMO good game design is providing content for both kinds of players.

    I guess if there's a player who is an avid collector/completionist but hates one of these 2 philosophies, they're out of luck. Which begs to question if it's wise calling yourself a collector/completionist if you're not willing to participate in all kinds of content in the game. MMOs have always had grindy content and pure RNG related content. From rare drops to rare spawns like TLPD or the Sha mount, it's all part of a huge diverse game.

    Best thing to do is play the content you like. If you REALLY want a reward that comes from the content you DONT enjoy, youre out of luck. Either suck it up and do the grind or live with the knowledge you won't get it. Myself I rotate between these philosophies as time goes by, so sometimes I find myself grinding rares for drops or grinding rep, and sometimes I prefer things like Mage Tower. This is good, it provides content for whatever you feel like atm.

    On to your actual question, I haven't seen these grindy achievements in SL so far but I would say it's safe to assume at some point they'll be added.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    I have better things to do than NOT play the game I want to play.
    OP is making the choice to waste his time farming for a drop that will give him an achievement. He's choosing to play the game in a way that is not enjoyable for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    Achievements should be about achieving something.

    I'm super confused that you seem to think AFK'ing around a spawn in any way is achieving anything.
    It's a collection achievement based around a rare drop. I sincerely doubt you're as confused as you're suggesting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    Yeah when I spend hours sitting there watching for a rare to spawn time & time again to finally get it after a few days of farming I think to myself "holy shit, I really achieved something!"
    Do you feel like you achieved something when you get your Level 10 achievement? Your level 20 achievement? How about when you get your Molten Core achievement at level 120?

    This game is filled with worthless achievements that are only there for completionists or people who want a high score. If a player chooses to focus on them, then that's on the player.
    Grand Crusader Belloc <-- 6608 Endless Tank Proving Grounds score! (
    Dragonslayer Kooqu

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidhjerta View Post
    He is complaining about the achievements design, which is completely valid at that. And what does a different game have to do with anything?
    I don't really think it is valid because that is the specific design of that achievement and not of every achievement in the game. Things are okay to have different requirements and there is nothing wrong with having some achievements tied to rare spawns or rare drops. This is like complaining that in order to get the Time Lost proto-drake you have to camp a zone from 2008.

    Of course Blizzard will continue that method for some stuff. Because it works, is optional, and is perfectly fine. Some get lucky. Some don't. Not everything needs bad luck protection.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    It's 2020, we have technology to produce content that is more challenging than "wait around for something to happen". I have better things to do than NOT play the game I want to play. How about you? #MakeSkillMatterAgain
    Than it is a good thing that there are other achievements in the game that focus on different things right? Not everything needs to be earned in the same exact way as everything else.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

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