New video by <The Scarlet Scourge> Followed by a 3-days ban

[Rampant Rabbit]

Aw I don't have to, Blizzard banned them.

Uhh yeah, obviously.

My point is that people shouldn't be such bitches about city raids. They happen, and your event should not stop a RP-PVP guild from sacking your city, but that's my opinion. I don't know shit about the actual rules of RP servers.

Also, if NPC's dying are disrupting your little event, then your event is shit and deserves to be crashed and tossed around. You cannot be corpse camped in Stormwind unless you're a dunce, so if the game becomes unplayable from being killed consecutive times it's your fault.

[Asrialol]

Well after hearing about this, I hope they banned the ~20 multi-boxer that was camping the SW portal room for hours one day.

Did you report it?

Also, what class was he multiboxing? Druids?

[Alithia]

Hello, guys, the guild master of The Scarlet Scourge speaking.

Alithia has referred me to this website so I thought I should clear up some confusion.

In essence about 10-15 players have received a 3 day ban out of the blue, myself included, exactly one day after the raid.
Some managed to get off the hook unscathed, however, none of us have had any idea why this had happened in the first place. Our guild was originally created on Argent Dawn some 2 years ago and we have been doing these kinds of stunts ever since (raiding both Goldshire and Stormwind), and only about 3 months ago have we transferred to Ravencrest in pursuit of better PvP opportunities and recruits.

None of our players have EVER received any suspensions before yesterday.

Also, because no one was exactly sure why this had happened, I opted in to open a live ticket and talk to a Blizzard representative about this and I am sharing our entire conversation exactly how it happened as well as my original ticket which I opened the live chat with:

The opening ticket:

Greetings,

Yesterday me and about 15-20 people from my guild have received 3 day bans for making a raid on Stormwind/Goldshire. We have recorded what we have been doing and made it into a RP-PVP video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QYh...ScarletScourge

So I made a ticket about a ban appeal yesterday but still have not received any answers. While reading this, please know that I am not writing this to you while being emotionally charged, or anything similar, I am simply writing this to you because I think that world PvP is/has never been a bannable offense and that we have been falsely banned because of an automated system via accumulating a certain number of flags from enemy players.

If this, however, is not the case, and in the event that my guild and I were found breaking any official Blizzard rules we would like to know so, because we are doing this PvP out of the love for the game, the love for unscripted PvP and something very few guilds do today. We are also youtube content creators with a niche, yet amazing audience (we managed to pull a lot of people back to WoW after a few years of being unsubbed) and we wouldn't like to make them thing that doing open world PvP in WoW in 2020 is a bannable offense.

So, seeing as I have made a ban appeal ticket before, let this live chat be about a certain "ruleset" or etiquette for open world PvP as there seem to be some hidden rules that we broke without us even knowing it.

Thank you for your time and I hope we can have a nice and constructive chat because from what I can decipher this has been nothing more than a misunderstanding.

GM reply 1: Hello, this is GM ____.

My reply 1: Hello, GM ____. =)

GM reply 2: I'm just having a read of your tickets

My reply 2: Yes of course. Take your time. It feels so nice talking to an actual GM and I feel we might come to a constructive discussion about the topic I mentioned in them.

GM reply 3 (10 seconds after I posted the seconds reply): I can see that the action we've taken is correct, and was for the reason given in the email you received. This isn't up for further discussion.

My reply 3: Could I have an explanation to why it has happened? Because all I got in my email was "we have checked the evidence and found it to be correct" (im paraphrasing) but there was no actual substance to what has actually happened. Would you please elaborate so that we may not do the same mistake again in the future? It's just my case not knowing what we did wrong.

GM reply 4 (posted 5 seconds after I wrote reply 3, and after that he instantly closed the chat): As I've stated this is not up for further discussion. The email explained the reason for your suspension. Goodbye.


So as you can see this is how the customer support treated me after I only wanted to know what we did wrong so that we may not do it again and get our accounts in jeopardy. We may have broken some rules, but what's to say we won't break them again if we do not know that we are breaking them? I have tried to reason with a Blizzard representative only to be written "GTFO" in a corporate way. I am not posting the screenshots of that chat here because I am unsure if that can get me in trouble, but I have concrete proof about this chat and will probably forward it to a Youtuber who would be interested in talking about RP-PVP/Warmode and the state of Activision-Blizzard in general.

Approximately 20 minutes after this ticket, all of our tickets got answered at about the same time with the same robotic response I received. Only one of our members was lucky enough to hop into a live chat with a GM and the GM confirmed that we got banned because we were doing PvP in Goldshire on Argent Dawn and that a lot of players have reported us for "disruption", even though a large majority of them (as seen in the video) have had PvP enabled and were fighting us back.

I am posting this not because we got banned, it's only 3 days, and, while still unjust, who cares really? I am writing this because doing World PvP post-BFA will most likely remain a grey territory for most GMs to handle as they please. Someone earlier mentioned double standards and I fully agree that this is a case of double standards. The concept of "griefing" is ambiguous at best and there is no actual scale that says where pvp ends and griefing/disrupting gameplay begins. This opens up a whole lot of new problems which different GMs deal with in different ways.

Having said all of this I shall take my leave and not respond to this thread anymore, seeing as there are a few trolls in it and I cba to waste my day arguing on the internet.

I just wanted to give all of you guys information on what really happened and voice my concern that world pvp in general will be frowned upon from now on, especially in capital cities, and that the feelings of players (who fought back and lost) are now more important than the actual ToS.

Anyone who is genuinely a content creator and is interested in seeing this screenshots may reach to me out via discord Milan#7862.

Wishing you all a good day,
Milan

[LemonDemonGirl]

Its all fun and games until you disrupts other people's gameplay.

True. I play on MoonGuard US Horde, and sometimes there a few (unfortunately) flagged Alliance players who often sit in the Valley of Honor and RP with people nearby. There's a few Horde players who often have Warmode on and... yeah.

It's unfortunate really, they're not even doing anything wrong and people just right out attack them over and over. And some of the Ally I encounter are quite nice actually. Both IC and OOC

[FelPlague]

You literally cannot disrupt someone's RP unless they actively decide to engage in PvP combat with you by turning on Warmode.

not even close to true.
do i need otl ink the blue post from a Gm and from a Cm again?

- - - Updated - - -

GM reply 4 (posted 5 seconds after I wrote reply 3, and after that he instantly closed the chat): As I've stated this is not up for further discussion. The email explained the reason for your suspension. Goodbye.


So as you can see this is how the customer support treated me after I only wanted to know what we did wrong so that we may not do it again and get our accounts in jeopardy. We may have broken some rules, but what's to say we won't break them again if we do not know that we are breaking them? I have tried to reason with a Blizzard representative only to be written "GTFO" in a corporate way. I am not posting the screenshots of that chat here because I am unsure if that can get me in trouble, but I have concrete proof about this chat and will probably forward it to a Youtuber who would be interested in talking about RP-PVP/Warmode and the state of Activision-Blizzard in general.

Approximately 20 minutes after this ticket, all of our tickets got answered at about the same time with the same robotic response I received. Only one of our members was lucky enough to hop into a live chat with a GM and the GM confirmed that we got banned because we were doing PvP in Goldshire on Argent Dawn and that a lot of players have reported us for "disruption", even though a large majority of them (as seen in the video) have had PvP enabled and were fighting us back.

I am posting this not because we got banned, it's only 3 days, and, while still unjust, who cares really? I am writing this because doing World PvP post-BFA will most likely remain a grey territory for most GMs to handle as they please. Someone earlier mentioned double standards and I fully agree that this is a case of double standards. The concept of "griefing" is ambiguous at best and there is no actual scale that says where pvp ends and griefing/disrupting gameplay begins. This opens up a whole lot of new problems which different GMs deal with in different ways.

Having said all of this I shall take my leave and not respond to this thread anymore, seeing as there are a few trolls in it and I cba to waste my day arguing on the internet.

I just wanted to give all of you guys information on what really happened and voice my concern that world pvp in general will be frowned upon from now on, especially in capital cities, and that the feelings of players (who fought back and lost) are now more important than the actual ToS.

Anyone who is genuinely a content creator and is interested in seeing this screenshots may reach to me out via discord Milan#7862.

Wishing you all a good day,
Milan

You were banned for disrupting RP, your email said that, dont waste Gm's time trying to get them to explain something they told you in an email.

Simple as that, Gm's do not discuss ban reasons, as everything you need to know is in the email.

Plus its only a 3 day ban, like come on, you got lucky.


if you want to avoid getting banned again, here is some tips.




1. If you wish to do city raids for hours on end, do so NOT on RP servers, as RP servers have special ruling for disruptive gameplay, disrupting RP is against the rules, be it verbal, phsyical, or visual
Verbal=chat spam
Phsyical=killing players
visual= screen clutter etc (Throwing all the toys around you possibly can)

2. You can still do it on Rp servers, but do it outside of RP hubs. (Avoid stormwind and goldshire, 2 RP hubs depending on server)
There are other Rp hubs some servers have different ones, so i reccomend asking your servers forums and working with them to find where its ok. as RP servers are actually partially self policed unlike other servers. GM's work with the community on RP servers to self police. and why its best to find where it is ok.
Maybe raid boralus, no one Rp's there as its the current major city.
Maybe raid darnassus, or ironforge.

Because lets think for a moment.

Why are you raiding a city?
To kill players and fuck with them? then its obvious you are disturbing RP and being disruptive.
To kill npcs and cause havoc in a city? well then thats great. you can do that in less populated cities like darnassus, exodar, and ironforge. no problem.


You have options, go to another city, or go to another realm.


And im a content creator, but i dont care about the screenshots, i trust what you are saying happened did indeed happen, i trust what the Gm said is what the gm said.

But even then what you did is bannable, i understand if you just want to have fun, but by doing this on an RP realm you are ruining LOTS of other peoples fun.

Do this on a non-rp realm all you like, you can have fun, you may tick a few people off but whatever.
but on an Rp realm you are breaking the rules, and making the game unfun for MANY people.

[Roleplayer1]

not even close to true.
do i need otl ink the blue post from a Gm and from a Cm again?

- - - Updated - - -



You were banned for disrupting RP, your email said that, dont waste Gm's time trying to get them to explain something they told you in an email.

Simple as that, Gm's do not discuss ban reasons, as everything you need to know is in the email.

Plus its only a 3 day ban, like come on, you got lucky.

I believe in his email it said Disruptive gameplay?

[FelPlague]

I believe in his email it said Disruptive gameplay?

Disruptive gameplay is the rule also used on Rp realms, your gameplay is disruptive of the other players RP.
Because its an Rp realm they have special rules, including dont be disruptive of peoples RP, and dont have silly names that dont fit the lore.

[Asrialol]

not even close to true.
do i need otl ink the blue post from a Gm and from a Cm again?

- - - Updated - - -



You were banned for disrupting RP, your email said that, dont waste Gm's time trying to get them to explain something they told you in an email.

Simple as that, Gm's do not discuss ban reasons, as everything you need to know is in the email.

Plus its only a 3 day ban, like come on, you got lucky.


if you want to avoid getting banned again, here is some tips.




1. If you wish to do city raids for hours on end, do so NOT on RP servers, as RP servers have special ruling for disruptive gameplay, disrupting RP is against the rules, be it verbal, phsyical, or visual
Verbal=chat spam
Phsyical=killing players
visual= screen clutter etc (Throwing all the toys around you possibly can)

2. You can still do it on Rp servers, but do it outside of RP hubs. (Avoid stormwind and goldshire, 2 RP hubs depending on server)
There are other Rp hubs some servers have different ones, so i reccomend asking your servers forums and working with them to find where its ok. as RP servers are actually partially self policed unlike other servers. GM's work with the community on RP servers to self police. and why its best to find where it is ok.
Maybe raid boralus, no one Rp's there as its the current major city.
Maybe raid darnassus, or ironforge.

Because lets think for a moment.

Why are you raiding a city?
To kill players and fuck with them? then its obvious you are disturbing RP and being disruptive.
To kill npcs and cause havoc in a city? well then thats great. you can do that in less populated cities like darnassus, exodar, and ironforge. no problem.


You have options, go to another city, or go to another realm.


And im a content creator, but i dont care about the screenshots, i trust what you are saying happened did indeed happen, i trust what the Gm said is what the gm said.

But even then what you did is bannable, i understand if you just want to have fun, but by doing this on an RP realm you are ruining LOTS of other peoples fun.

Do this on a non-rp realm all you like, you can have fun, you may tick a few people off but whatever.
but on an Rp realm you are breaking the rules, and making the game unfun for MANY people.

I think it's pretty clear they're trying to milk the situation for exposure. Like asking any content creators out there if they want screenshots.. lmao.

[MatPandaZ]

I never said Blizzard doesn't want these NPCs dead. I said several times that it's about them not being available for several hours.

Then make them change after an hour. You are dodging the most basic point - that PvP and attacking cities is part of the game and has always been allowed. It's not like anyone is abusing game mechanics. It's not like there is any form of warning about this. It's not like Blizzard can't make that type of play impossible with a simple fix. Instead they say Go! PvP! PvP Achievements! Raid Cities! Oh, not like that, BAN.


It's absolutely pathetic.

[Baneto]

Did the GM really act like that? They used to be nice and reasonable people once, I guess that went out the window somewhere.

[3DTyrant]

Most hordies don't even know that. Whenever some rogue does their Legion quest and kills all my auctioneers I just /shrug and move to the other one. Never seen the second AH camped.

In all of my time I've spent playing alliance, I've never seen the second one camped before either.

[FelPlague]

I think it's pretty clear they're trying to milk the situation for exposure. Like asking any content creators out there if they want screenshots.. lmao.

oh yeah that was obvious from the start, especially when they posted 3 of their videos, its very obviously self advertisement.

[FoxieChan]

Thank you Milan for that post, does make me think why wPvP is enabled on RP Servers if people get salty about being invaded. Personally I wouldn't class killing a player whos flagged for PvP as "Disruptive Gameplay" - even if that player was involved in RP. The PvP flag surely indicates he/she is willing to stop RPing to fight? **Shrugs**

FelPlague keeps mentioning these secret rules for RP Realms, which doesn't quite make sense for me. As i've watched your videos for a while and its weird that for the 2 years you've actively raided Argent Dawn, you were never banned until now? I remember being on my Dwarf and you locked down the city for hours on end, but it was funny to watch.

Personally if there is a rule that states "Dont disrupt RP" i totally get it. But if that player has PVP enabled, then that should in theory void that rule. As they're actively searching for a fight, hence the PVP Toggle Option.
If the player is killed then the 'killer' continues to linger about and minge, sure, that RP interference but if they're killed mid RP with Warmode/PVP Flag on, thats their own fault so suck it up.

Also just made an account so i could comment, didn't realise this area was so grey lol. Need to be re-evaluated for sure

[FelPlague]

Then make them change after an hour. You are dodging the most basic point - that PvP and attacking cities is part of the game and has always been allowed. It's not like anyone is abusing game mechanics. It's not like there is any form of warning about this. It's not like Blizzard can't make that type of play impossible with a simple fix. Instead they say Go! PvP! PvP Achievements! Raid Cities! Oh, not like that, BAN.


It's absolutely pathetic.

I think you fail to realize.

Even if they made all the npcs invincible

Op's guild still would have been banned.

it was because they were causing a ruckus in stormwind for 2 hours.
not cause they were killing NPC's



I very much think people fail to realize that if 2 people are talking in /say its not just an issue if 1 dies, its an issue if 50 horde surround them and start spamming emotes.

People fail to realize that disrupting Rp is not just "kill a rper" its ruining the experiance, its messing around them.


Imagine if you were trying to take a photo of your family.
Yes it would be bad if someone stabbed your mother in the photo, you would call the cops.

But if the person refused to get out of the camera shot, and kept following you around and standing in front of the camera, that would also be a problem wouldn't it?

Disrupting Rp is not just killing players, its also being an annoyance and ruining their experience.

[Nerovar]

not even close to true.
do i need otl ink the blue post from a Gm and from a Cm again?

Please enlighten me.

[FelPlague]

Please enlighten me.

[FoxieChan]

"Disrupting roleplaying events through the use of verbal, physical, or visual harrassment".
But how does this rule work when a player enlists themselves into PvP whilst Roleplaying? I think that is the unanswered question and this major grey area thats been missed by blizzard. Personally, as I said before, PvP imo would overwrite the rule as you're committing yourself ready to attack/or be attacked by a member of the opposing faction. As long as they kill you and move on and aren't getting involved in the 'RP' you were in before you died because you flagged yourself. That's your own fault + Don't see it as a break of this hidden rule?

[Belloc]

Are you honestly trying to tell me that a new player who doesn't know how to get to IF/Darnassus etc. somehow desperately needs to access the auction house? Give me a fucking break.

Do you not remember visiting the auction house at low levels to get better gear? I definitely did.

Also, "desparately" doesn't factor in. You either want to access it or you don't. If you want to and can't, then that's a problem -- end of story.

[Zantos]

Wait... how can you be flagged as PvP target in your main city with WM OFF? That does not make any sense...
I did not play retail since this new system was introduced but in earlier WoW times you become 'untouchable' after 5min (or 10min, not sure) being in the your fraction area or sanctuary even on PvP server.

If you have just gotten out of PvP or switched WM off, youll be flagged for 5 minutes. Still, killing anything goes in WM since their PvP rules, at least what they where, state that a PvP problem has a PvP solution.

[Lollis]

As someone on Alliance Argent Dawn, since the OP won't tell you the full story, lets explain exactly what this 'amazing rp pvp guild' does:

For over a year this guild would 'raid Stormwind' on random days by camping the Mage tower with a ton of alts, many of whom have variations of the word 'Abomination' with a clear intent to completely disregard the rp server naming rules by using special characters. Their 'pvp' usually consists of camping one of 3 locations: the mage tower portals, the cathedral crypts, or the slaughtered lamb.

While they camp the mage tower, they sit on the spot killing people who spawn in and cause a metric fuck ton of lag (which already exists in Stormwind at normal times). Their usual tactic is to have mages who sit at the back and spam Stoneard portals so that when an Alliance raid is put together to stomp them (which happens all the time) they pussy out and escape. Inside the mage tower, they camp the main area transport portal so that those who fight back have to deal with the lag and loading in for when they move from the tower to the portal area.

The Scarlet Scourge is not a PvP guild, it's sole purpose is to grief the mage tower, and when they get shit on by the Alliance defense raids they quite quickly leave.