1. #1

    Multi-spec tanking should return and it should be done more for healers.

    It was so glorious being able to choose between THREE specs of tanking on the same character you levelled in WotLK because it was min-maxing nirvana in Ulduar (best raid designed in MMO history) even if one of the specs was better in most encounters. Why should DPSes like Mages or Hunters have an extreme variety and not tanks and more healers?
    PS. Also cut the bs of being hard to respec on the same character by losing at least 10-15 item levels for weeks.

  2. #2
    Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
    infracted
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2020-10-08 at 05:28 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
    I’m interested in knowing what went through your head in order for you to think Carthage has anything to do with OP wanting tank-capable classes to have multiple tanking specs on top of their other dps/heal specs?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    I’m interested in knowing what went through your head in order for you to think Carthage has anything to do with OP wanting tank-capable classes to have multiple tanking specs on top of their other dps/heal specs?
    I don't even know what exactly he proposes. Pure DPS classes do not have more or less options for their role then tanks. If i want to play Subtlety rogue instead of Outlaw, i have to respec and change gear. What is stopping a tank from doing the same?

    Apart from that, the only class with more than one spec able to tank was the DK. What about the other tank classes?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    I don't even know what exactly he proposes. Pure DPS classes do not have more or less options for their role then tanks. If i want to play Subtlety rogue instead of Outlaw, i have to respec and change gear. What is stopping a tank from doing the same?

    Apart from that, the only class with more than one spec able to tank was the DK. What about the other tank classes?
    He's saying if you want to play a rogue you have 3 dps specs to choose from. DK's used to have multiple tank specs now they don't. He's arguing why not give that back and (I'm guessing a little here) also proposing making say arms/fury warrior able to tank if they want to or maybe ret pally or hell even moonkin. The point is he wants more options on viable tank playstyles. Or I could be completely wrong on that guess not sure.

    To answer OP, the reason they took it away from DK's was because it was impossible to properly balance a spec that does both. Now if your argument is to add more specs to the game period. That offers up a whole new set of design challenges as they already struggle with the number of specs that are in the game (thus why DH only got 2)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zylos View Post
    they already struggle with the number of specs that are in the game (thus why DH only got 2)
    That's not a problem for a company with resources for class balancing in millions (small teams with no money do it too). Besides it can be extremely easier if you do not mix the roles (as you correctly said it was problematic mixing dps and tanking in the same talent tree).
    The best approach would probably be to introduce two new CLASSES: One tanking class with 2 specs of it + 1 dps and one healing class with the mix of priests (or if that's too much for players (I get it if it becomes too much choice) then do it inside current classes.
    Last edited by epigramx; 2020-10-08 at 04:52 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    That's not a problem for a company with resources for class balancing in millions (small teams with no money do it too). Besides it can be extremely easier if you do not mix the roles (as you correctly said it was problematic mixing dps and tanking in the same talent tree).
    The best approach would probably be to introduce two new CLASSES: One tanking class with 2 specs of it + 1 dps and one healing class with the mix of priests (or if that's too much for players (I get it if it becomes too much choice) then do it inside current classes.
    There are way too many tank classes, and they fail tremendously at balancing. Since BFA launch, Guardian has been buffed 3 times, and Brewmaster nerfed twice, and Brewmaster is STILL BETTER. When is the last time prot warriors were considered good mythic progression tanks?

    Adding in more choices just means that if you only play one tank, it's increasingly less likely to be one of the viable specs.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    I don't even know what exactly he proposes. Pure DPS classes do not have more or less options for their role then tanks. If i want to play Subtlety rogue instead of Outlaw, i have to respec and change gear. What is stopping a tank from doing the same?

    Apart from that, the only class with more than one spec able to tank was the DK. What about the other tank classes?
    I think the point is that Tanks and Healers are usually only relegated to one of those roles per class, whereas DPS have a plethora of classes to choose from when it comes to having multiple specs of the role they prefer. Only Priest really has a second healer spec, and DKs historically did have multiple tanking specs (that could also dps) but these options were strangled away over the years - Warriors too, were able to tank in other specs earlier in the game's lifespan but this was also taken away.

    I think the point of this kind of proposition is for people who like to tank or heal and only really want to do that and would like the opportunity in their class to be able to have multiple specs that can do the role they like without necessarily having to use alts as a vehicle just to play other specs in other classes that have the role they prefer. It is after all, a pretty big boon as a Mage, Warlock, Hunter, Rogue, etc. that even if one dps spec at a given time isn't your cup of tea or isn't very good there are alternatives available.

    To build more on the topic, I think some specs that historically have been more defensive historically as dps could maybe work as having that old DK style of being a dps/tank option within the same spec. Specs I think that could maybe work as having an optional tank option would probably be obviously DKs and Warriors, and especially in terms of making a tank option available to more dps specs, Windwalker and Mistweaver may also work especially because they're so focused on martial-arts already. Holy and Retribution I think could also work as tank alternatives, with Retribution and Prot also serving as Healer alternatives if we really wanted to go crazy with the hybrid role potential within individual specs. It would be kind of neat if Hybrids of any spec could actually fulfil any role... that might be kind of interesting and really reinforce the concept of hybrids actually being able to fulfill the role of a hybrid.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    It was so glorious being able to choose between THREE specs of tanking on the same character you levelled in WotLK because it was min-maxing nirvana in Ulduar (best raid designed in MMO history) even if one of the specs was better in most encounters. Why should DPSes like Mages or Hunters have an extreme variety and not tanks and more healers?
    PS. Also cut the bs of being hard to respec on the same character by losing at least 10-15 item levels for weeks.
    If you do that for tanks then it would be only fair to do it for healers too. And honestly I can't see how speccs like feral, balance, enhance etc can be turned into healing and make sense..

    As people mentioned before, balance is an issue

    There are 6 tanking speccs with different playstyles sns niches in the game and it's still the least played role.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    That's not a problem for a company with resources for class balancing in millions (small teams with no money do it too
    You know..I love this argument because by that logic companies that make more money than most countries (Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc) should have COMPLETELY bug free software and have absolutely NO issues with anything they ever produce ever.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    I don't even know what exactly he proposes. Pure DPS classes do not have more or less options for their role then tanks. If i want to play Subtlety rogue instead of Outlaw, i have to respec and change gear. What is stopping a tank from doing the same?

    Apart from that, the only class with more than one spec able to tank was the DK. What about the other tank classes?
    Isn’t it pretty obvious what he is saying? He wants one class to have multiple tank specs. Just like many classes have multiple dps specs. Now I don’t agree that it’s a good idea but I think his message is pretty clear.

  12. #12
    i'd actually like a pure tanking class with different specs but i feel like its kinda to late for that somehow

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    If you do that for tanks then it would be only fair to do it for healers too.
    Yes I said that (and it connects to the following answer: ).
    Quote Originally Posted by Sofo1 View Post
    i'd actually like a pure tanking class with different specs but i feel like its kinda to late for that somehow
    You can't not have a dps spec because of soloing and questing. The priest is an amazing class if you have to main healing because you KNOW the probability of not having at least 1 good spec for healing each patch is almost zero so you can have more classes with that choice (either healing or tanking).

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